Comments (Page 438)
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well i loved the franchise. for all its imperfections i overlooked. maybe it is time to forget about progresttion. Those 100s and 100s of hours researching Engineer Mythos from scraps of clues (and some good ones) were enjoyable but wasted.
Oh well, someone will make the Engineer story of creation - just using different names and ideas. After all it was one hell of an idea. wasted.
I like the ceremonial cup in the Engineer hand before he changes ! It is like the inside of the bowl from Prometheus. Interesting reconstruct has only 1 hand. Possible deformity ? Hey happens to the best of genes
Walt Disney presents: DAVID IN WONDERLAND
@ Thoughts_Dreams,
Minus the anti-David sentiments, I agree with everything you just wrote. One of the reasons Alien: Covenant suffered was because the Xenomorphs (and Neomorphs) played secondary to Davids role as the primary antagonist, with most of those that praise AC citing Fassbender's role. I feel such fans would prefer a David movie, whereas purists such as ourselves would like to see the Alien return to prominence as the main antagonist in its own series of movies.
For me, I feel that the Alien prequels are labeled falsely. Prometheus was not an Alien movie, it was an Engineer movie, whereas Alien: Covenant was a David movie. Scotts well-publicized feelings towards the Xenomorph are reason enough that he should not make another Alien movie. That said, I feel Blomkamp's interest in the Alien is secondary to his interest in the Colonial Marines and the human characters of James Cameron's Aliens.
@ Big Dave,
The hairless humanoids in the display cases in Blade Runner 2049 are, I believe, Nexus-8 Replicants. The one on the far right of the picture in the article is identical to Sapper Morton, a Nexus-8 Replicant portrayed by the ever-surprisingly talented Dave Bautista.
@ red0guy,
Any inference or connection to Bladerunner 2049 doesn't have to involve Sony or Warner Bros, same as Marvel Studios didn't need to Universal Studios permission to feature Hulk in the Avengers 1 & 2 and Thor: Ragnarok.
@ dk
Sadly I feel Ridley Scott's priorities no longer lie with the Engineers and their backstory. Scott has become beguiled by Fassbender's performance as David, similarly to how he was once obsessed with Russell Crowe. And with Scott's opinions on the Xenomorph being well known I would lean towards Timmy the Ultramorph's idea that another director concludes the story of the Alien prequels.
Whatever the case might be I wouldn't be sad if this is true. Scott only cares about the AI thing and I don't care about it.
“But at this point, does anyone but Ridley Scott even want another Alien film?”
(https://screenrant.com/alien-covenant-sequel-canceled/)
Not if it will be about David, erase that if so.
I agree with JurassicNight about this.
“FOX NEEDS TO LET RIDLEY DO WHAT HE WANTS!!!!“ - I Moon Girl
I disagree with this, if Scott gets to do what he wants then we will get another boring David movie, I don't want to support that because it is boring.
“I guess FOX doesn't care about the fans.”
The same could be said about Scott since he wants to push his David thing despite the fact that many people are against it. I can't give you a number but search the net to see what some people say about Alien Covenant.
I think that not everything needs to be spoon-fed, some ambiguity is fine.
Colonialsoldier: Yeah they messed up Luke in that movie, fuck that shit.
Well they should have stayed with the idea from Prometheus, where murals showed that the Alien already existed and the other mural where the Engineer puhses down a Xeno-like creature makes it clear that they were proud that they tamed it. Made it should have been better to leave the beast as an Ancient Evil (like the universe itself), which the engineers thought they tamed. That is Lovecraft, not a mad robot in space.
Even if you defend the movie and say David did not create it, but made it's own version, how? in a cave using quills for writing in less then 10 years? If he was so craft why not make a bloody pen or something?
Scott's unconditional "love" for MF(oxbender) is quite off-putting for some (me included).
At this point I am not sure if I am very interested in another Alien prequel. If Scott only cares about David then I think that they should cancel the whole thing.
I don't watch alien movies to see a robot story, Scott doesn't seem to understand what alien fans are interested in. Keep the AI thing to Blade Runner and movies like that.
Blomkamp's movie might not be something new but at least it wouldn't be a boring AI movie. This is not to say that I am interested in another Ripley movie though.
Yes give the movie the title David, if that is what it will be about. At least that title would be honest and keep me away from watching it. I am not interested in another movie about robots.
“Michael Fassbender's portrayal of David should be its primary focus”
That is what Alien Covenant was, and it was mostly boring.
“Do you agree?”
Yeah, a David movie should not be in the alien universe, that would be better.
I would not watch a David movie, I have zero interest in that.
To me the whole franchise is about humans that get into situations that they are not prepared for and that builds fear. The Xeno is just a bit of the fear thing that humans have.
Disney is in it for the money and not the art so to speak but so was probably Fox if you think about it. I think that since they are into familiar things I guess that we might get an Alien 5.
Maybe they will make Scott finish the prequels with one other movie and then I guess that it is a wrap. I am not very interested in the direction that he is taking this so I will probably not miss it. Perhaps they can do a spin-off movie, I am not very interested in that but I would rather have a movie like that than another movie about David.
“I had to un plug the player to stop the perfection.”
Going back and reading this really had me laughing. I am glad that I wasn't drinking coffee or anything, the table would probably have been covered in coffee.
Ripley is not necessary, give me well-written and sympathetic human characters and a lot of it is saved. Prometheus could have been a lot better if this would have worked but it didn't.
“I fear they may not be interested in the Prequels, unless they RE-BOOT them... simply because of the way the Prequels have Split the Franchise and Disappointments in fans minds with both.”
No big loss, it is only about David anyways.
With the direction that they are going with the AI thing, well I would not care if we get a sequel or not. The AI thing sucks and takes away from what was interesting with the original three alien movies, namely the human element of fear of the unknown.
As far as what Scott says they are not crazy if they will not do a sequel. I do not care that much about the David story, because I find it boring, they messed him up in AC he was better in Prometheus.
He only wants to play with David, I am not a bit interested in that. If that is the way that he wants to go then I would rather prefer if they don't make another movie at all.
"David is a fantastic villain"
No he is not, he is a mad robot with a creator complex but that is the only thing that Scott seems to care about. Despite people's complaints he just doesn't want to listen. Get a new director if this is the way he wants to go. He was alright in Prometheus, in Alien Covenant he was simply ruined.
The characters in AC were thin as paper they need to get better human characters that we can care about because that did not work in AC or in Prometheus.
I hope that they will force Scott to give David less of a role and expand on the human part of it. The way it seems now with Ridley's comments I guess that I will not care about a new alien movie, just like Star Wars.
At least the title seems to suggest that there is some pressure on Scott, that is a good thing because it might prevent him from making another boring AI movie. Hopefully those in charge at Disney understands what the movies are about, if not they should go back and watch them. Cancel the movie if it is going to be about David, I am done with that.
“Can they now U-Turn and change things once again, and brush David under the Carpet? I am not sure RS would want this to happen...”
Well, too bad for him but I would rather see that happen. At least give David less of a role, I do not care if Scott does not want that.
I would rather see that the Engineers created the Xeno.
“At this point the executines know that the AI angle is what "alienated" (pun intended) the audience and the fanbase alike. They will try to distance themselves from that at any cost.”
Hopefully, if they are smart enough.
It is starting to seem like a pretentious mess.
Yeah, it is bad. Hopefully they can solve this in some way although they got to seriously think about it and not just fall in line with what Scott wants because that would give another bad movie. Sacrifice David if that is what is needed so we can move on to more interesting stories.
The next movie must be better on the human characters and reduce the role of David. I think that the focus on David is one of the reasons why the prequels have failed. You don't need to be a genius to see that is one of the problems with the prequels but it seems to me that Scott doesn't understand that or is in self-denial.
red0guy Thanks. No worries.
The 2 prequels... that was the context, but sorry for not being that clear.
red0guy Consider what as non-cannon? It has been fairly exhaustively debated on what is cannonical. The answer is that it is up to the individual. Of course, Disney now seems to have a big say.
Closure cannot possibly please everyone. We still bicker on the finer points of a movie almost 40 years old that the writers and directors didn't consider since they had no idea it would be a big deal to this day. Someone needs to close it out and possibly piss of some fans, including myself. At least I would get closure.
I see no problem having it pleasing action fans. But someone somewhere will think there aren't enough things hat go BOOM. Oh well. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
If many fans consider this already as non-cannon what closure will it bring to them? And to the larger public who want only action?
For closure, it seems David would have to be involved since he is the only one with a role in the last two movies. The story has seemed to have painted itself into a corner, but David has to be the way to continue.
As far as merchandise and ticket sales go- good question.
Another consideration is a backlash from a loyal fan base and Sir Ridley's "Legacy". Integrity vs commerce.
Yeah, what is the point in giving fans some closure after following a franchise for 4 f*cking decades?
BigDave How about a Disney pitch like this:
Imagine a movie trailer that suggests a very vague sequence of the SJ supervising cargo loading into an are we figure is the Jugernaut. Something along those lines without showing too much. Next, a voice or words would suggest a connection to an origin.
Many from my work place found Covenant already a reboot. So why reboot again?
Well this is the BIG QUESTION
A lot depends on Disney, and do they pick up the Franchise or do they License it out to someone else?
Disney are in the Market to look at what Makes $$$$ and what can lead to Merchandise and Toys!
This Sadly leans more to a Blomkamp Alien 5 Scenario, Disney will not make a Alien movie unless they feel it will make back 2-3X its Budget, they may Sadly not wish to Risk Investing $100-150M never mind more and so if they did make a Movie we would either be left withe TWO options.
A) A lower $50-75M Budget AC sequel attempt.
B) A similar Budget to AC or maybe a bit more HOWEVER bring in Xenos and Ripley again.
A big Question is those at Disney who make such decisions, what Care do they have for the Franchise, do they care for the first TWO movies? Do they care for the last TWO movies and do they care for the TWO Prequels?
Does Respect for the Franchise mean more than making Money?
So who knows... we cant rule out a REBOOT but i hope they remain Respectful and instead go for a ALIEN movie set in the Universe that does not affect the Prequels or Original Franchise... and so i think they could potentially bring about a movie where we get a new Cast of Characters, and introduce us to another Place where Xenomorph Eggs are discovered/obtained or Re-Engineered.
The other option would be if they feel that the XENOMORPH is simply not enough, and feel they have to introduce Ripley into it.... then who knows what route they would take. a Alien Resurrection Sequel? or a Blomkamp Style Re-con of Alien 3?
I fear they may not be interested in the Prequels, unless they RE-BOOT them... simply because of the way the Prequels have Split the Franchise and Disappointments in fans minds with both.
Sincerely they lost me with Covenant already. In the context of current movie with their lack of ambition to do anything new. What closure can they bring? That the final look of the Alien is because an android getting infected? That the Space jockey is David? Is a mad (psycho) robot in space that alluring? The 40 year old alien formula is still a thing?
They (Fox/Disney) are not that insane... Many people don't like the prequels, incomes have been been reduced from 3 to 2.5. Maybe the hardcore will attend but will the large audience follow suit (highly unlikely).
I really liked Prometheus and wish it never had such a sequel.
I think its interesting to delve into the Story of David, however i think any chance of such would be unlikely because Fans would complain, it appears the masses of Fanboys in General only see the FRANCHISE as being about the Xenomorph and Ripley.
I think expanded Universe Stories are interesting, there is a lot that can be explored, but as far as a Movie Goes, any Production Company would have to look at the Investment VS Returns, but certainly as far as a Novel, i think it would be interesting to explore some History behind David and Weyland.
As far as Bladerunner Connections, they are separately owned Franchises, and i am not sure any Direct Connections should be made, but we do get Easter Eggs... and i feel MANY fans miss the whole Creation Theme explored in Prometheus.
Ridley Scott may wish to explore AI more, which some fans are not pleased with but they seem to forget behind the scenes of the Franchise, AI is/has and will play a KEY Role.... we need only look at Alien Resurrection to see this... we have a Earth that has seen devastation as Synthetics have Evolved to Sub-create and have their own inner Power Struggles.
Ridley Scotts comments on AI are interesting and one that reveals a lot.... He says that Rachael and Baty are AI and so a lot of people assume AI is well Robots... it is NOT... in context to RS comments AI is just a Artificially Created Intelligence which could be expanded to beings... that are not Created Naturally.
Natural Creation being a Man and Woman Procreating to give birth to a child that grows like a Human.
Any Genetic Engineering to Artificially Create a Humanoid and have it Engineered to grow faster would constitute to AI in context to Ridley Scotts comments. If we look at the Movie The 6th Day we have the company Replacement Technologies which we see have been Cloning Humans, and we see they have growing BLANK-CANVAS Humanoid Clones, that are then Genetically Imprinted with the DNA Traits of a Human so that the Blank Canvas Humanoids Genomes are then altered to become Clones of Specific Humans and then these Humans Memories/Emotions are Transferred to these Clones.. Thus granting those who Purchase these Clones a kind of IMMORTALITY when we look at these Clones they are indeed a form of AI in context to Ridley Scotts comments.
This to me, means Ridley Scotts potential exploration of AI will not just be about Rogue David and Armies of Synthetics becoming Rogue AKA Terminator.. The Exploration could amount to other things... The Xenomorph in effect could be a AI and indeed we could even had seen the LV-223 Engineers being a AI too, maybe the Engineers themselves being a AI
I have not seen BR 2049 yet, but when the Trailers hit etc, some did notice those Engineer looking beings and thought is there a connection? I think maybe RS in this movie was providing us a Easter Egg to link to the Engineers for sure.
When looking at the Humanoid Bald beings in those Glass Tanks in BR 2049 and when you line up the Humans to those beings then those Engineer looking beings are IN-FACT 12 Feet Tall. I have not seen BR 2049 yet (as no one i know wanted to see it) so i cant speak on what connection they have to the Replicants, or what these beings are in those Glass Displays.
But i think when i look at the comments RS had made at the time of Prometheus to why the Elders Scene was cut, (Not wishing to meet GOD in the first movie) to his comments regarding Prometheus 2, that they (David and Shaw) will meet these beings who are not Gods in the traditional Sense, to then RS comments regarding AC and the Planet 4 (Original) Engineers, these all seem to imply maybe the LV-223 Engineers could be to the Engineers as Replicant are to Humans...
Maybe the reasons for the LV-223 Engineers creations are the same as the reasons for the Replicants and Davids creation.... when i look at what the Source i had claimed about the LV-223 Engineers saying they are more in common with David than Humans... i feel this is a hint that the LV-223 Engineers are a form or AI
Who knows if this was the case and what RS was going to explore...
So yes i think the whole Creation/AI is something interesting... and indeed something i was exploring with my Prometheus 2 draft i abandoned... which explored the EXACT reason for Davids Creation, which was really similar to the 6th Day Plot as far as the creation of those Clones.
joylitt Closure is expected since that was the intent with prequels. My understanding is that prequels lead up to the origin. We can like or dislike the prequels- that is a distraction from what they are supposed to do. Instead, the prequels have only opened up new paths with none seeming to lead to the origin in the foreseeable future. It is starting to seem like a pretentious mess.
If Blomkamp's movie return back the RHNB party - this will be good.
I always thought - the old idea with good performance better than new idea with awkward performance.
dk In your case, you didn't like Prometheus and you thought AC was just ok, so whay would you be so insterested in "getting closure". Same with other people who liked Prometheus and did not like AC. Or those who just liked the original Alien. It is very unlikely that all of those groups will find a satisfying closure. I believe the next movie needs to be a departure from the David angle, and they also need to give us "real" characters and a convincing depiction of the future. They need to quit the whimsical, self referential approach that have been the norm since Prometheus. At this point the executines know that the AI angle is what "alienated" (pun intended) the audience and the fanbase alike. They will try to distance themselves from that at any cost.
I still stick to the point that it will be the fall of king David and Daniels maybe a twisted version of Queen (of) Bathsheba, gets sick(infected) and Solomon (the final form of the Xeno) is born.
I think the route they may have gone prior to AC would have fitted the David vs Goliath Arc and indeed we could see Davids Bombardment in AC of the Engineers as this.... in a sequel we know that RS wishes to introduce the Engineers and so maybe we could see a David vs Goliath encounter.
I think loosely we could follow Davids Arc as King David in the next movie, wishing to establish his own Kingdom.
dk, lol no my friend they wernt lost on me hahaha
It seems simple to me. Link up to Alien and give closure. Tie up your other loose ends with spin offs and such.
Thanks for embedding. I can't seem to make it work despite your tutorial.
I think it would be interesting to have information on what Blomkamps Alien movie would have been prior to Miss Weavers input.
"It was not until Neill spoke with Sigourney Weaver on the set of Chappie did they decide to revisit the Ripley narrative once again"
Sorry Miss Weaver you asked to be killed off in Alien 3, then resurrected for Alien Resurrection, and it appears Miss Weaver likes to think the ALIEN Franchise is about RIPLEY
All she cares about is making some and Milking some $$$$ you wait until Disney think that a ALIEN 5 Blomkamp Style is the way to go, and that the Franchise is about and NEEDS Xenomorphs and Ripley to make $$$$
Then Miss Weaver asking for a Mega $$$$ Payout..
I think there is really only ONE route to expand on Ripley, which could work and not discredit the prior movies and thats MY Alien 5 idea where the Ripley 8 Clone Evolves where the Xenomorph DNA takes over, and we explore a World on Earth in a Ruined State after the Synthetic Uprising and Wars, and reveal the True Intentions of Call is her Cults persuit to obtain Ripley 8 as a Tool to Eradicate Mankind.
This is Blomkamp taking advantage of the Back Lash to Alien Covenant and with Disney now taking Owner ship.
This could stir up a craze of Fanboys going WOW, this is what a ALIEN movie should be like, and if Fans get excited about these images it could signal Disney to think that a ALIEN 5 is the way forwards for the Franchise as it would be the most Marketable way to go
The thing is Blomkamps ideas appear to just be a Re-Hash and Fan-Service i cant see not much NEW being explored here but then with Disney they would want to play it Safe with what could make $$$$$ and there is more chance now of Blomkamps Alien 5 Fan Service Flick happening.
I also think there is a chance we could see a AVP Re-boot and would not be shocked if Alien 5 is made, down the line and introduces a Predator Element to set up a AVP Continuation.
Its cool to see the evolution of trailers like that!
Also, I embedded the links for you :)
Prometheus was not to bad with its First Trailer, but the latter ones and TV Spots gave away too much..
Alien Covenant was basically a Marketing Ploy to suggest to Fans "look its a ALIEN movie" even making that Poster that showed some Xeno/Engineer Armegedon that was never nothing to do with the movie and other Posters showing the Xeno head and Eggs... all just basically shouting out to Fans.... "this is a ALIEN movie"
Regarding the AC Trailer...
Indeed we needed to see David and the Eggs, but not reveal Oram, instead just show the shot of looking down at the Egg and the Face Hugger.... The only other shot of the Xenomorph i would have kept as the Shower Scene, but only using the Sound of the Xenomorph and seeing the Tail and thats IT.
The Neomorphs i would have kept as it was but only just show the Back of Ledwood begin to open up... But DO-NOT show a single shot of the Neomorph
Sorry. My sarcasm and trolling skills are evidently weak. My posts of utter AC perfection were total BS. I was hoping some would see that and join the lampoon lol! I like AC but it (and Prometheus) is woefully bad compared to the Quadrilogy.
BigDave formally pitch it to FOX/Disney. Blackwinter-Witch sent her Manticore novel to them. Can't hurt, they obviously need someone with a vision and eye for continuity.
We'll start a partition if need be to have your proposal considered
"Ridley Scott should finish what he started. And soon. We can't wait another 5 years."
Totally Agree.... The longer its left, the less we can follow DAVID because the Longer its left, then we cant have a Fassbender playing a Synthetic, without CGI to make him appear younger, i do think there is a OPTION that Overlooks David.. Where we arrive years latter to Origae-6 and uncover the remains of DAVID that can be activated so David's Head can Narrate to us what has transpired previously much like they did with BISHOP in Alien 3
A movie taking this AFTERMATH route to what the AC sequel would be, thus skipping Part 2 of the New Trilogy could set up a ONE movie which would lead us to ALIEN but such a route could end up only being a Aliens meets Alien Covenant.
it was like seeing it for the second time while watching the film for the first time.
Yes. That pretty much sums up trailers for everything outside the Quadrilogy.
Going back to RS i covered this before the other day when this interview had been on another Topic.. and we have to Question what RS means? He did in the Marketing for AC, suggest it has to be about HIM (Xenomorph) and you can Evolve him, but you cant go diverting off the path that is the ALIEN Franchise, you have to follow ONE String of THREAD is what RS had said.
Following AC and the disappointment/back lash, RS had mentioned that he was ahead of the Ball Game regarding Prometheus, his interview seemed to suggest that there is not so much you can do with the Xenomorph and that other avenues had to be expanded on and Prometheus was a great launch pad to explore other things.... He then suggested the Franchise has to MOVE AWAY from the Xenomorph and the Next movie would explore AI more as he feels this is a more Dangerous Threat.
But his latest Interview he is going back to what he said when Campaigning for Alien Covenant, it appears maybe he has seen the Back-Lash to the AI/David plans, and now is back tracking again to the Xenomorph.
So we really have to wonder what STATE/STAGE they are at with any Plans for the Franchise, it appears again they are taking Fan-Reaction on board but they need to REMEMBER you cant please every FAN
I have 1-2 ideas how to EVOLVE the Franchise that could please MOST fans, but it would require TWO movie set up, there is NO-WAY i could incorporate the ideas i have into ONE movie unless it skips some parts of what i would do, but leaves clues and has to be a 2hr 45 min Flick. I also have a idea that would continue on from Alien Resurrection. But again in both of these AI will have to play a Role... but it would not discount the Roles of the Engineers and their Biological Experiments
Ridley Scott should finish what he started. And soon. We can't wait another 5 years.
They felt Prometheus left enough clues to the above... so they could explore the Engineers more, while eventually giving some clues to the reasons behind what LV-223 was for... But some fans had not been happy that we never DIRECTLY had it shown HOW/WHEN the Xenomorph was created, some even disappointed it was a Bio-Weapon made by these Humanoid Engineers and maybe were not interested in the Plot regarding the Engineers being Genetic Engineers who Engineered us and following Dr Shaw off to get her answers... they wanted the Xenomorph Origin Answers and wanted to see Xenomorphs (or similar) in action, the only action we got in Prometheus was the Hammerpede, and then the Trillobite that lead to a Deacon Chest Buster, No Aliens killed anyone..... this was done by a Angry Humanoid Engineer and a Toxic Avenger Fifield.
So we got FOX take these on board and go back to Directly Showing us the Process of the Xenomorph Creation, and WHY and to set up a series of movies that will more Directly and Spoon Feed us to arrive at the events prior to Alien.. Only the Route they went revealed now that the Xenomorph was a Evolutionary Experiment Carried out by a Wayward Synthetic DAVID thus showing us that there was NO EGGS on LV-223 18 years prior to ALIEN and going this route now its LIKELY that NO EGGS on LV-426 for at the latest 10 years prior to ALIEN
With PROMETHEUS Ridley Scott and FOX felt the WHY was more important as for the Bio-Weapon the WHY being connected to the Engineers and their reasons for it against MANKIND...
ALIEN: COVENANT again is following the WHY but also introducing the WHEN/HOW only now its tied into DAVID and sets up to follow WHY David would create such a Thing....
So for them its been not about lets say.. WHAT/WHEN the NUKE was Created and its Purpose, or GUNPOWDER but WHY was it created to be used as a Weapon, there is good reasons for say the Creation of Nuclear Weapons and Prometheus/Alien:Covenant attempted to set us up to find out WHY the Bio-Weapons had been created.
The only CHANGE is now we are following DAVID'S Reasons for it, rather than the ENGINEERS but again this has displeased Fans, so do they ONCE again U-TURN and show us that David did not Create it, and go back to the Engineers? Or introduce something else that Created it...
Can they now U-Turn and change things once again, and brush David under the Carpet? I am not sure RS would want this to happen, and while it upsets Fans.... They have to remember the Xenomorph is but just ONE outcome of the HORRORS that the Black Goo can lead to, and we STILL DONT know why the Black Goo has a Genetic Connection to the Deacon/Xenomorph
