Comments (Page 630)

But it just looked like a big snake. I guess that suit is snake proof, so Milburn thought "What the hell..let's go in for the stroke" with a side helping of hypnotism from the creatures odd movements. He has no idea that a snake could snap his arm in 2, get into his helmet and orally fuck him. Poor dude.

Right again ali81. The blurry figure looks a little like a Deacon with a really bad head wound.

Looking closer, each side of the "head" appears uniform (similar dips on the edge) and the circular/oval dark colorations on the David 8 drawing seem to match (vaguely). It is tough to make out with confidence.

2 more for you Blackwinter-witch

Here we go. This what engineers, humans and robots are all about

right, i did something off the cuff here

ali81 great work! I could really see that being the prologue to Awakening. Upvoted!  

"Elizabeth could not take the truth. She refused to believe she was destined to be the currency in a horrifying transaction taking place beyond the stars. On one end of the transaction, the Engineers, on the other end myself."

Well written joylitt. The point above is really good.

joylitt nice work mate! Very well written and thought provoking. Upvoted

Prometheus.

I love Alien: Covenant too and its starting to grow on me more each pass but Prometheus....well, you know.

I don't believe there is any acidic blood in the neomorph. I didn't get the impression it burned or sizzled on the floor when Oram shoots it and david certainly didn't get splashed with any Im sure. think RS has gone for a more natural and organic creature in the neomorph

Likewise ali81. 

Did we see any melting of the floor when Captain Oram showed David 8 how impressed he was with the neomorph in the room where Rosenthal was killed?

I know we did see the floor melt when they tried to get the facehugger from off of Lope but I couldn't remember if melting was visible from killing the neomorph in the room where Oram shot it.

the very origins of the deaconesque form in the mural?

Yes, ali81.

Ati was able to capture some of the text shown in Alien: Covenant and "plant" was mentioned in it (see below).

"If I read well David's lines on the drawing:

'Concurrent xenomorph development...'

'host sustaining functions and plant...'

After the word host (n) the word plant is not a verb, but a noun meaning the flower...?? That's why I wrote about the flower... I don't know, it's possible that I'm wrong.

The full sentences can't be seen."

cheers guys. ingeneiro, the neomorph and hammerpede def look to have a lot of the same charcteristics such as texture, skin colour etc but I wonder, how come the hammerpede has acidic blood yet the neomorph doesn't?

looks like a vine/ tree that's grabbed the engineer?

P R O M E T H E U S

yea I thought on of the dudes went into the chamber.

I have more in mind but thought id better stop

Thank you- I will review.

I have something just off the cuff yet its LONG lol where do I post it?

It's really tough, but Prometheus I think. 

I read the control mechanism in the xenomorph is a short lifespan of only days Yog Sothoth.

I theorized that the hammerpede mutations we saw in Prometheus were more like a neomorph than anything we had seen yet.

"Black goo + Worms = Giant worms + Host = Unknown"

As to the above statement...I haven't seen any attempt at reproduction from the neomorph but I have seen an attempt to shred a human as quickly as possible (Millburn and Rosenthal).

The below organism symphony is a little harder to explain.

Great topic ali81.

In that scene when Cole goes downstairs, there is a moment when he is looking for captain and you can see two eggs opened, while after scene with captain Oram only one left open. 

Goodness...

I always saw these movies as Yin and Yang. One provides something the other doesn't but still be an amazing experience.

Only from sheer intensity and the whole body clenching experience I get from Covenant I would pick that one. It truly was an experience like no other movie in a long time (Since The Witch). I tend to praise movies that move me physically and Covenant did that in spades! I would rank that up there with many of the best movies that moved me like Black Swan, Take Shelter, Melancholia, and Antichrist. 

Prometheus is no pushover either. It took a second watch to really love it (exactly like Blade Runner) and it has only gotten better since. The color and beauty is at 11 here instead of the dread and intensities like Covenant. Both are such wonderful films and I am happy to have the DVD for both! 

Yes Yog Sothoth. I'm sure the misplaced confidence in the suits was because they had never encountered anything that would make its way through the suit so quickly. And the corporate description above makes me want to hold something exotic out in space.

Alien:Covenant

joylitt

Thank you for offering an insight into your thinking of how you could link the relationship between Engineers, Mankind and A. I.

I think the kind of idea you have of lifting the XXX121 into a central role with in the mythos, and not by force, but by it playing a crucial and vital part in the evolutionary process would sit very well with the core fan base and particularly that part which is Xeno centric, and why wouldn't they be, thats what its about, it makes good sense.

Well written as others have said, but these ideas and what we actually have received since Prometheus has rather let the cat out of the bag for all kinds of approaches and once you begin thinking about them it makes me consider where the centre of gravity should be and reflects on the fragmented nature of the reaction to Prometheus.

For me it is Shaw's questions which should lead the narrative, seeking our creators and considering within a babushka like doll story the possibilities of creationism.

The audacity that we were Engineered is a perfect start and it also reflects on the modern and very much current and increasingly point in our real world of A I and our relationship with it.

It seems to me that Shaw's journeys should have considered both a materialist creation and a creative creation.

So Materialism 

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental things and consciousness, are results of material interactions. Materialism is closely related to physicalism, the view that all that exists is ultimately physical.

Creative

Suggesting that evolution is motivated by an élan vital, a "vital impetus" that can also be understood as humanity's natural creative impulse. Put simply creation is the greatest work of artistic achievement and comes from the mind and spirit and planes of existence which cannot be explained in purely physical terms. 

After all Peter Weyland began the journey seeking his makers and for the first layer to be a soulless Engineered race of beings that created us from a purely materialist point of view makes sense. That through the allegory of Paradise Lost that the Alien Pathogen evolved which an A I became aware of and its possibilities was extremely neat. That should have been movement one with the relationship with the cargo left on LV 426 made clear as part of the paradigm of unauthorised sub creation. 

However the real shock to the narrative, which the story will never recover from now, is that the A I was healed by mankind and Davids resurrection should have generated a transformative outlook.This would have lead in the second instalment for David and Elizabeth to consider this society (The Engineers) which is predicated on materialism and found that the source of the power was based on a mechanical force. All of this would have explained that the Engineers were given free will to create, the only Covenant was to do so in the manner gifted to them, a machine. What the Engineers discovered in AD Zero was that mankind had evolved to a place where the Sun King (Christ) intervened and showed them a glimpse of the greater truth of creative creationism. Mankind exercised free will and outside of the materialist view and therefore attempted to redact them with their creation the Deacon. Incidentally the drama in this is David and Elizabeth being central to the creative tension of the two belief systems. Could Elizabeth really believe that David had under gone a transformational experience and accept as A. I. creative creationism.

The second movement would conclude with David having infected the source of their power and would then seek the creative creationism which they would discover amongst the secrets of Paradise.

In that third movement Elizabeth would receive her answers from the Teardrop Ship occupants, who would communicate in a unique and compelling way, not a guy emerging on the ramp in a suit, which would indicate that they recognise the flaw of the creative mind was to only reveal the how and not the why to the Engineers. They gave them the tools but not the wisdom and the revelation of the story is that in mankind's search for creation through visiting the Engineers that they mankind already had found the answers which the Engineers failed to recognise in their materialism, that the soul is eternal and in ways which we cannot comprehend.

The central symbol and difference between the Engineers and mankind is focused in the concept of sacrifice. The Engineers perverted the sacrificial act by creating non consensual unsympathetic sacrifice for their medium of sub creation whereas Christ died so that others could live and be enriched, just as the acolyte from the tear drop ship. Put simply the Engineers dropped the ball and Peter Weyland was off the mark.  

In a sense the third Prometheus movie would move into the same territory as 2001 which Ridley paid homage to at the beginning of the Prometheus.  Incredible visuals highly allegorical and quite separate and fresh and moving away from the XXX121 altogether. 

I only offer this not to derail the thread but to show that Prometheus opened up a can of worms or is that hammerpedes which could equally have left the XXX121 as a specific variant of Paradise Lost and that the Jockey and its force field protected Eggs, which the Jockey hoped had been been set in a quarantined place, with a warning to avoid, echoing the transformational journey that David made 2000 years later in Movement 2.             

PS In case this comes across as an attempt at a christian narrative I would emphasise that all the great prophets and belief systems could be responsible for the redaction attempt by the Engineers. The other great religion comes after 2,000 of course. 

where do we post them? have to forgive the ignorance but at times im not computer literate. im not sure how to create a link, I have a rough idea though

didn't one of the marines go into the egg chamber?

Someone said in another poste here that Muther says the air is clear when the crew is suiting up to leave the ship, so maybe it was just changed from David to Muther checking the atmosphere.

I love how Shaw was used to become...

..Something, Can you enlighten me?

Something else from the script I forgot to mention that goes with a something discussed here about that Alan Dean Foster interview. Faris sends Walter outside to analyze the air first before the crew exits the lander in the script. So that was not just something Alan Dean Foster added to the novelization all on his own.

It's not in the deleted scenes, so it most have been cut in a later draft, or maybe never filmed?

so 'get back to the effing topic ali81'? lol

sorry was only responding to comments. on the topic, my 2 cents worth. I don't see the point of it being anywhere other than earth. yes ridley says he gets annoyed everyone automatically puts it on earth and true, it could be anywhere and just showing us the process. but then why not earth if, if the plot of Prometheus is humans, created on earth, are searching for our makers? to me the intention of the opening scene is to show the viewer 'this is what happened hundreds of thousands of years ago on earth, and we are the result'.

Here are additional shots of the Covenant screens in search of where the Paradise planet/system is and to the topic (where did the Engineer sacrifice himself).

Thank you for the great discussion on black goo forms ali81.

I created "Millburn's Folly" to explain characteristics seen in the form of black goo in Prometheus carrying on to the neomorph seen in Alien: Covenant.

Kethol created the topic "Various forms of the Black Pathogen" and goes to great length explaining this subject. 

ah, I did say on that thread that I am only on while at work and my company have blocked sites that come up under 'gaming' which for aome reason the AVPG site falls under, I don't know why. but I am unable to read it from that link. do u know of another link that I can read it from? im not sure how much of this though has been keep in the actual film thus canon. it may be another piece of concept which has not made it into the film. just because its in an early draft doesn't make it so.

on the idea of having these satellites in orbit is something id def like to have included and would have been good to have seen or at least have mentioned in the film. there is not concrete evidence in the film that suggests them though, from what I gathered from the film, it is just a storm. and we don't know the ecosystem or weather patterns of planet 4 before david arrives so it could be a case of the effects of the pathogen david deploys, which many have stated could start to change/ terraform a planet.

I believe it was kethol who staed in sherris' thread 'david and the burst a 10yr plan', that there were satellites in orbit around the poles that create the giant storms and are part of shield defence (not sure his source on this though I have asked him). regardless of the origins of the storm, the storm makes it almost impossible for david to be in contact with the company while he is on planet 4. also, the olive branch message, sent after the events of covenant, suggest this is the first time he has contacted the company, offering them a piece of his works so to say.

The John Logan script that I mentioned above. It was posted over on the AVP forum and here several days ago.

You are correct ali81.

In the olive branch message he does mention his (David 8) work and then show Daniels while explaining he now has his queen...meaning that the message was sent after the crew arrived.

Please chalk up inconsistencies in my logic above to brainstorming while commenting while hyperventilating in regards to Origae-6 mentioned in the video.

It could also be a stretch that David 8 would have the capability for the sub-space communication inside him. He may if the Chinese had anything to do with it, see here.

David 8's Message to Weyland-Yutani Corporation

This leads me to conclude that David 8 may have taken the Covenant ship down to the surface of Paradise and then sent the message in regards to his lab, colonists, and his queen. This may explain the image above with the Covenant ship on the surface of somewhere.

Thombach and BigDave...yes, looks like a goof at Fox (bummer).

Outside that...the "Experimental Trials" (included in updated video) is too hard to pass over.

2000 colonists, housed in the best technology humanity has to offer, sent strait to David 8 sounds like the ingredients for an "Experimental Trial"....at least under Weyland Corporate ethics.

Origae-6 may be mind chum (a fairy tale) told to the crew to get them on board for the Experimental Trial of black goo experimentation with corporate in-the-know in regards to the real story on what is going to happen to the Covenant crew.

The crew may have been lied to as to what their mission objective was.

dk, id say even those who have only seen the film would still be asking 'which one was branson?' lol im not sure but does the crew actually mention him by name in the film?

would actually be intriguing to see how people think the film would differ if he had not be a completely wasted character just to show Oram wasn't accustomed to giving the orders and had the position thrust upon him and survived

Prometheus, It expanded the Alien universe :)

I kind of want to say let the franchise rest for a bit after this prequel trilogy, but if I had to choose 1, it would be carry on, simply because even if the rest of the series has been mediocre to bad, the first 2 films are so good I don't want to see them get rid of them.

Now if we wanted to reboot everything besides those 2 I might be on board.

Keep Scott and Carry on