Comments (Page 672)

The queen? Are you serious? David tells that black goo is AI particles. That means that facehuggers and xenomorphs created by David are biomechanoids with self-reproduce ability. What's the point of having queen?

Alien was biomechanoid, Aliens were insects. They could've chosen ONE. But they're trying to appease both who believe xenomorphs are insects and who believe they're autonomous biomechanoids. Fox and RS went completely WRONG way.

Ok. I won't be surprised if there are predators in the next movie

daliens

The fresco in the headroom turns into an Alien Egg held by Alien hands but you need to read the tie in material to see this with any clarity.

It is also on record that much of what is in the mural are easter eggs (unfortunate pun that). So take from it what you will until Awakening where David will be the Jockey something I am even clearer about after Advent. There his creatures and its his vocation to set aside the timidity and rejection of the ancient rituals of Sacrifice and bring his creations to the galaxy. 

chili

I think a Prometheus sequel rather than an Alien reposition would have probably sold the same number of tickets. Its just the feedback from monster centric fans would have been more vitriolic.

However heres the thing. If Prometheus Pandemonium had been a riveting psychological thriller with breath taking visuals which gave us the kind of depth of "Advent" and people began saying you gotta see this one its (Cool/sick/a great movie) depending on your vernacular it would have sold. Those second and third week audiences for a second movie (the first one is curiosity) come from a sense of wow go see this.

When I saw the double bill and the I max presentation on the very first days the cinema was half empty that tells me A L I E N is a limited brand now. 

@ Michelle

I agree with your description of the tug-of-war between satisfying a broader audience (so the production company will get its money back), that is between a straight forward sci-fi-horror-action movie, and a more drama-based story with emotional and philosophical depth. But would you have preferred that the movie flopped, and that just a bunch of intellectuals ravished in its depth?

There is also a gender issue here, I think, where women tend to be drawn to drama (emotional problems between the characters) and men who are more drawn to action (sci-fi, horror, and action are predominantly male movie genre preferences). So, from that point of view, in order to get a broader audience (women), it might have been even wiser to focus more on the relationship between David and Shaw (like in “The Crossing”)? James Cameron succeeded with just this in Titanic where you have a perfect blend of the love story between Rose and Jack, and the action filled catastrophe?

I don’t think I quite agree with you when you say killing off momentum wasn’t an issue in 20th-century cinema? In fact, that very aspect was the reason why they cut out the scene where Dallas is egg-morphed (Alien -1979). Interestingly, Ridley Scott put that scene back in the director’s cut (2003) so this must be considered as canon? So, there we have the egg which is consistent with Giger, the mural etc, and back to square one whether David could be the creator . . .

However, I have come to look at it as “the creator-issue” not being too important. All agree that the engineers created the pathogen/mutagen, and that is the real weapon of mass destruction.

With the Phobos clip in particular I am not so much interested in David's connection with W-Y; but the company itself. The rigorous testing they conducted on the crew prior to launch suggests they had quite detailed knowledge on the xenomorph and were testing the crew's reactions for specific markers. 

You are most probably right in that it is a drum up for sales, but it has piqued my interest. After Covenant where we got few answers regarding the events that occurred between films it was hoped that the announced ADF novel would fill these gaps. Instead they released the Origin's summary (above) which sounded like a dull feel-good prequel full of inane character backstories with a moot attempt to sabotage the mission. That was a disappointment that killed interest in the book. 

But if the novel does work around what we saw in Phobos, we suddenly have an intriguing story.

The conspiracy theory involving David and Weyland-Yutani does not stand after the release of the Advent video. 

"I came to you with an olive branch. You may know me and you certainly know of my creator. I am David, son of the late Peter Weyland, your Company's founder."

David did not have any insider conspirators as I believed at some point. 

If the book suggests otherwise it may have been written before the release of Advent was seen necessary by Fox marketing department to boost the bluray/dvd sales.

MU/TH/UR what the hell is that image. Kill it, Kill it with fire!!

Advent, Last Supper should sure as hell be in the film. Phobos and the letters to home clips make great supplementary clips on a DVD, they really help flesh out the characters but inserted into the film would kill the pacing.  

Michelle Johnston well, I want to believe the Juggernaut found on the derelict in Alien is not David in his attempt to set loose his creatures to rule the Galaxy.

And the mural from Prometheus clearly shows facehuggers, so they were on the market thousands of years before David or Weyland-Yutani. 

I choose to believe that David tried to replicate the alien morph and the eggs were the result of genetical engineering and intended as a biological weapon. By Engineers. 

So far I still have reasons to believe so, no matter some consider same as not being canon. The canon is continuously updated by Ridley Scott but some predictability is there, the puzzle gets some clarity.

Perfect Mothers

If David would try to create a Giger-esque "perfect mother" that would be appropriate for the future of the franchise. Anything but the huge ant queen.

Not sure how Daniels would fit into a Giger frame, probably some colonist would better serve that purpose.

daliens

Quoting elements from ADF's excellent novelisation has already done the rounds here from those like Chli who reject entirely the notion that the specific XXX121 mutagen outcome is the result of David's painstaking work carried out over his many years on Paradise. That a Xeno like outcome (a wolf) had been created by the Engineers in Eons gone by is obvious from LV 223. ADF is on record as saying the answer is meant to be ambiguous so people can work through their own need. This issue of when did the first face hugger get made worries some people and the creators respectful of this view give them a door to walk through. 

Seph7

Your conjecture that Ridley is trying to mediate the needs of those who want an action tentpole movie more akin to A L I E N S verses those who want something thoughtful and intellectually challenging where we are not spoon fed like Prometheus is actually the entire point of this thread and the danger for the franchise so we are constantly repeating the key theme and not recognising the reason we are here which is that Covenant undersold Prometheus.

Prometheus brought back people like myself to the franchise who are not the slightest interested in an action monster movie and one centred on a monster designed in 1979. Fox/Ridley, Speights/Lindelof recognised this tug of war. Paglen,Green/Logan tussled with this tug of war and the result is Covenant with its tired troped 3rd act and shorts outside of the movie like The Last Supper, Advent and the Crossing and the "Meet Walter" offering far more interesting elements which have drama, real emotional engagement and oddly enough in the case of Advent answer every question you have of David from the moment he was repaired to the moment of the last page of Covenant. Ironically this shows that exposition can reveal huge amounts of story in very short order when executed in a creative way. The notion that thoughtful exposition kills off momentum was never an issue in the 20th century cinema its just in this hyper knowledge saturated age where people have the attention spans of a gnat have made studios nervous. But I put it to you those shorts full of all types of different content show that 5 minutes can achieve a huge amount in cinema without killing the narrative.   

That said as Dave has said like me when he left viewings of Covenant he heard people say it was OK but wow it was far to slow and took to long to get going. They are there for their breaking bones fix whilst they much on Popcorn and nothing else and unfortunately in the more general publics mind that what an Alien prefix movie is all about. I  have a number of friends who are surprised that I would go and see Covenant knowing I like a thoughtful film that again demonstrates the problem with the brand. If you want bigger audiences you need to break out and ensure that if the fan boys go you explain why they are not wearing helmets.   

@VivisectedEngineer

wow I haven't seen the Phobos yet. It's good to know that and put things into a different perspective. 

The lambs are the sacrificial engineers who ingest the catalyser to seed new worlds? The wolves are the deacons or purely the pathogen used to cleanse the unwanted worlds? The wolves were abandoned on LV223?

I wonder if Shaw was meant to seed the second Eden. But she refused.

Im interested if the neomorph like creatures are Davids results or are the lifeforms on "Paradise"

Definitely would like to see a TV series for Alien. Maybe an alternative ALIEN 3 universe starring Ripley, Hicks and Newt.

why the hell wasn't this in the film! This is what was missing from Covenant to make it GREAT. David is a terrifying antagonist with one hell of a sinister agenda. 

David was a bit too high and mighty in Prometheus/Covenant. In this, he is just downright scary and insane.

Prior to this I felt that if you ran into David in a dark alley he would probably offer you a cup of tea before stabbing you with his flute. All quiet cleanly. Now im not so sure  

I really don't want to see again THIS queen.

Silly Queen getting out of the elevator

Silly Queen before getting lost in space with one of Ripley's sneakers

auximenes I hope you are right, it was my belief that Ridley Scott would never use the unfortunate concept of Cameron, but after seeing the Advent video it seems Fox would try again to please the fanboys. Don't get me wrong,  I love Covenant and I stated it clearly even when mostly haters posted here. But the direction insinuated by the Advent video disappoints me deeply. It may be that Ridley Scott will not do another movie for the franchise. The Advent video seems far from his views.

Wagner, Twilight of the Gods. It reminds me of the Island of Dr. Moreau with a Hannibal Lecter touch. Insane. Fortunately WY threatens David with something not disclosed in the video, that makes David continue: 'If you do this, there will be no turning back.  My creatures shall be set loose to rule this Galaxy. ' How is he going to set them loose? Can they rule the Galaxy or just devour it? 

I do hope WY finds a way to shutdown David or something else will happen to Daniels because I really don't want to see the huge alien ant queen again. I found it very lame to continue in this way. And David has to disappear. No more explicit pictures of his sick experiments, we got the godless point.

Hey, just got back here from having been away since the end of May.  So, as usual, Advent leaves me still with a lot of questions.

1.  The spore pods are shown, again (not sure if it's a cut-out from the film or we see David disturbing them).  But, again, there is no mention of what they are or how they came to be, which still seems like a really important part of this story to me that I feel isn't going to be explained.  Since we know that plants didn't get mutated, are we still working under the theory that these are eggs of a creature native to the planet that got transformed, or that David created them?  Their location seems to be completely random, which is why I'm leaning towards the former.

2.  Another site mentions that in addition to Shaw, he can be seen experimenting on an Engineer(s), and a Neomorph.  It's shown in the movie that the neomorph is the result of the spores on human beings, and I'd just figured the ones we saw in the movie where the first to have been created since we don't see any neomorphs of the same kind in the lab in the movie.  I guess we're just supposed to assume the first neomorph came from his experimentation on Shaw, but are we supposed to assume it came from an experiment on her when she was alive (maybe lead to some spores), or an experiment on her eggs?

David seems to have been fascinated with what came out of Ledward and Hallett, as if he'd not seen anything like it before.  Maybe then the neomorph he creates from Shaw is of a different type than the one that occurred naturally? 

By 'queen' I'm not sure David means a queen like in Aliens. Couldn't he just be making a general reference to an egg-maker? Since he lost access to Shaw he needs a new supply of eggs which Daniels can now provide. I'm not sure he needs to create a large egg-laying queen Xeno to accomplish his goals.

DK - I would very much enjoy a series of books. Books allow me to use my imagination so much more than a film or show. I desire to think and feel - and books are a wonderful way of evoking those states in a mind! :)

Oh, gosh! I am sorry for this duplicate post! :(

@Jonesy

Yes! Maggie definitely could have made a better decision considering she was at least as contaminated and in need of quarantine as Karine!

But, in Phobos, she did mention that "not being able to get away" was one of her biggest fears. That clouded her judgement a bit, which is very human and believable.

JonesRules Agree. Also, a series might have more ability to stretch out into different facets the movie franchise did not cover. For instance, Advent alone could almost be the subject of at least half a season.

@Jay Johns

You are so so right, Covenant is definitely a great movie that just keeps getting better upon each subsequent viewing!

When it was still in theaters, I went to see it FIVE times (perhaps because I'm an addictive personality type and I may have a problem...). It was a bit of a drain on the wallet, so I'm glad to finally have the digital release!

...Now I have to ask...have you read the Covenant novel yet??? If not, man are you in for a treat!

IRaptus

TY for saying!! That's a really wonderful thing to hear!! (HUG)

Hopefully, FOX might look-in and see what can be done, and should be done (regarding proper attention to continuity), there's so much potential in this franchise, and they just don't seem to see it...and they keep hiring writers who don't seem to really have any knowledge of the Lore, or give a damn about it.

I will say that regarding The Alien itself, I am taking an entirely different approach than what's been exposed via ALIEN: Covenant...
And in ALIEN: Manticore, the crew gets to play hide-and-seek with the REAL Big Chap, not some cheap knock-off cooked up by a psychotic android with daddy issues. ;)

@Diesektor

Nice work! I love it! Man, it's sort of difficult to picture David having last words...

He's pretty enamored with himself. Do you think he'd panic or lament at the prospect of his imminent non-existence?

Or, would he eerily keep his composure, like Ash? Perhaps he'd find solace in considering the continued existence of his creations a form of immortality.

You know, I also thought of something a little ironic in Phobos. As I recall, when asked, Faris said the aspect she found most disturbing was "not being able too get away".

Yet she winds up being the one who traps Karine in the medbay with the neomorph.

Why did Faris think she herself was any less likely to be infected than Karine? Sure Ledward may have puked on Karine's shoulder...but his back had sprayed blood directly in Faris' face... she was at least equally in need of quarantine.

Easier to inflict your own worst fear on someone else, I suppose.

I would say both are pretty disappointing

Why should Fox care. The Dark Tower is Sony's. Maybe you mean the box office analysts?

That was better than the whole movie, just what I wanted. I guess the plan was to parse this epic out in multiple installments. Not a fan of that unless expertly done. If he wraps it up with one final I just wish upon the stars it is suspenseful and uses creative writers(not Ridley's insta-ideas). It could be a masterpiece if the Android narrative is toned down some or put in proper context with Fassbinder's human counterparts. Allowing the actors to act like actual intelligent god fearing astronauts who are believable is all I want.

Why not both? I am still all for the build up to an Alien movie every once in a while! I also love just going to movies in general!!

A series would be a welcome addition to the Alien franchise though! There is also plenty of time and places in between/during any film so far that would make for great TV! A series may be a great way to kick off the Post-Ridley prequels in a few years. 

I'm not sure... I mean, can you link any article or a Fox statement saying that it was a very successful, dominant weekend? I have mostly just heard bad news/reviews about, "The Dark Tower." 

IRaptus I agree wholeheartedly. And when we talk about grandiose ideas that Prometheus introduced and a number of very intelligent ideas the whole Alien franchise has put forward, and all the mysteries, all that cannot be dealt with and covered rapidly within the time a big-screen movie is limited to. There is no need to make a series out of original Alien or even any of its first three sequels, as they all presented localized events and wrapped things up decently, but once Prometheus opened up that universe and bombarded us with its ideas like David's kombucha attack on the engineers, the screen time given to feature films simply does not work anymore. We wait for 5 years and get 2 hours of chopped-up footage and salivate over any extras like Advent, so things could make sense. Nothing wrong with using brain and connecting the dots, reading novelizations, searching the web and such, but there's nothing wrong either with the story unfolding, even slowly, on the small screen. I think it could be more effective, expose this, again, very intelligent franchise to more people and generations, and make for overall epic entertainment.

JAY JHONS - Do not allow the masses to sway you from enjoying a film for its own sake, my friend. At present, I believe the film industry is suffering a lull to its poor choice in movie production - namely a great deal of super-hero offerings which do not stimulate the imagination. There will come a time when films once again make us wonder and gae in awe. We must simply work toward that goal with our comments and viewership. :)

TV series is fine with me. I really like the Strain or the ideal it seems to strive for. Add that extra cash and openness of a more premium publisher like Netflix , others......we could get something really special. Hard to believe a 'paradise lost' narrative hybrid could fit well within two hours but oh well. Wonder how Fox would make money on a series?

Gavin You make an excellent point. That said, has anyone on staff applied? Is anyone interested? Certainly the qualifications are there.

Movies are still relevant but they have to offer a cinematic experience that can't be done on the small screen, usually with huge budgets and mind-blowing fx. Though that window is narrowing rapidly, as developers realise that series over X amount years = $$$$$.

That and bombastic audio visual don't guarantee success.

JonesRules well said!! TV series imo have overtaken movies in quality as the gold standard of screen entertainment.

Series offer a much more engaging experience for both the viewer and developers.

Awesome.

You will love Black Mirror, I'm sure :-)