Comments (Page 132)

I think DK that is Very interesting and Disturbing...  (If someone can Affect our Dreams).

something that Blackant brought up on another Topic about Simulation comes to mind with this TOPIC.

What if when your in Cryo-sleep then Certain Parts of your Experience can me Manipulated so you CANT tell if your Dreaming or its Reality....

If you are in such a Virtual Reality with your Family and Friends who are NOT real, but to you then you CANT tell that they are NOT real.

That Certainly can Change the whole Perspective on what kind of DREAMS and how they are Influenced while we are in Cryo-sleep.

It has got me thinking about HOW MUCH of such a thing could David Giler and Walter Hill be looking at in Context to their ALIEN V idea.....   A Dream within a Dream!

what Horrors of Ripley would be just Nightmares and are these Nightmares Programed by someone and WHO and WHY.

so that is something Disturbing like how you Speculate about WHAT IF someone can Influence/Control your Dreams to become a Nightmare.

Can you Imagine if all of Ripleys Experiences are a Nightmare..... she wakes up on the Covenant not the Nostromo with David watching over her...

So HE becomes like a Freddy LOL   David the Dream Master.

Going a bit OFF TOPIC but back to A.I and Advancements.

Then indeed we can look at our Technological Revolution where we have SPIKES and then a Plateau and then Repeats.

If we look at the TV then from its Invention until the 90's there was not a MASSIVE difference.  The Color TV Started to become Available for the Home in the 60's some 30 Years latter it DIED OUT (CRT) replaced by LCD and the like... but in those 30 Years the Technology never Advanced much (CRT) it was the same at Principle...  same with LCD while they First appeared in the 70's but become more in Homes in the 90's the LCD TV has NOT really Advanced too FAR in 25 Years.

NOT when compared to the Magnitudes of Computing since the 70's until NOW.  If we take the Humble Home Entertainment of Gaming....

The PONG from the Early 70's compared to what a PS5 would deliver, then it Terms of the Number Crunching, Speed, Memory the about Data Storage say PONG would require compared to the Most Advanced PS5 Games we could see over the Next 5 Years.... the GULF in Advancement is HUGE.

Thats as FAR as affordable Home Computers... etc Never Mind the SUPER COMPUTER.

So over a 50 Year Period we have seen a Vast Increase and WHO knows what these will be in 50 Years.

And so i can see you point Regarding a Civilization that is Thousands of Years ahead of us NOW... never mind Millions.

And so when it comes down to Technology and Entertainment we cant really Imagine what we would be using in 500 Years never mind Thousands and Millions.

We have seen Star Trek with the Holodecks....  and i think ONE DAY we could see Devices we would STICK on our Heads that would Interact with our Brains where we would have our OWN kind of Hollodeck while we are Sitting in our Arm Chair (or Future Equivalent) where Entertainment and Reality would be so Close you would NOT be able to tell.

And so could you Imagine similar to that in Thousands of Years?  So i can see your point Regarding the Engineers.

I think with Advancements in Computing we have Advancements in A.I which can always be a Danger...

Its a case of WHEN do we go from Putting on a Helmet Device that takes us to a Dream Place that feels like Reality where the RULES of Reality do-not apply.  And then after a Few Hours we take them off and Return to Life.

To the point we maybe get HOOKED up to such things, by our A.I and Left in this Dream State/World aka like the Matrix.

Some Advancements we could be HELD by the Laws of Physics and so Reaching other Worlds that are 10's or Hundreds of Light Years away could always be a PIPE DREAM.

We can Experience such Worlds, New Races via Sci-Fi and the Effects are so Realistic on Screen but we know its Fiction and Fantasy because its on the Screen.

ONCE we have Technology where we can Experiences these within our MINDS... where things seem to Real, we can Smell, and Taste and Touch what is NOT there.

Maybe we get to a Point we cant tell what is Reality or Virtual Reality.  And IF we have it that A.I is in Control of such a VR then would we EVEN KNOW...

That Everything has become a Simulation.

So THANKS for bringing up such a Thought Provoking take on Reality.....  and indeed its something to Ponder as far as WHAT KIND of a Existence would a Species have if it Advanced Hundreds of Thousands of Years beyond what we have NOW ;)

Great! Now that we've got all that squared away, I think it's high time we address the bonus situation. 

(And @Blackwinter-witch , I haven't noticed any gibberish myself but that may be because I'm just naturally gibber-brained.)

Certainly some Interesting Points ;)

I think that INDEED by Virtue of the Engineers Juggernaught Navigation Map having other Galaxies means the Engineers must have some kind of Technology that we could NOT even Comprehend. 

But they could have some kind of Lazy Plot Device where the Center of Each Galaxy is a Gateway to the others. Like a Wormhole.

I think its interesting to consider the Possibility of via Technology being able to Traverse Multiple Dimensions, we see this at the END of the Movie Interstellar (something Future Mankind Achieved).  The Alien 01 Master Narrative also indicates the Engineers wanted to Transcend to a Multiverse. 

I think its Interesting how you mention when Computers and A.I get so Advanced that they could Create a Simulated Universe.......    ARE WE IN A SIMULATION NOW?

So thats Very Out There...... like a Matrix kind of Existence for us... Controlled by the A.I

A Computer Simulation could be a Curve-Ball!

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God."

To Ponder that GOD could be a Machine a A.I and we are a Simulation is Thought Provoking.

I used that Biblical Reference in my Prologue to my AC2 idea.

The Movie would have Started with a BLANK SCREEN a Darkness.... then we hear David speak the words.

"In the beginning was the Word"

Then we see the Black Screen become a Boot Up Sequence for some Computer.

We then hear David say "And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light"

We see this Darkness becomes Light as if we are now behind the Closes Eyes of Someone.. as the Eyes open then we see Davids Face.

The POV Person we see Stand... then David looks at them and says "how do you feel"  The Person replies "alive" in a Familiar Voice the POV switches towards a Mirror and see their Reflection it is another David.

This was Part of a Prologue to show that David had Assembled a Walter from Parts on the Covenant and Transferred his Soul into this Walter.

The Prologue Ends with the New David ripping the Head off the Old David after the New David says they cant Rule the Galaxy together... and says there can be ONLY the One King, the Original David asks "WHY?" as then he gets his Head Torn Off and then New David says.. “I know not; am I my brother's keeper?”

I like these ;)

Not much Good for me i try and NOT wear a Mask (Health Reasons) unless i absolutely have to....  i pretty much Social Distance quite well.....

But these to look Very Cool....

I would have to go and Customize a Face Shield instead lol

@The Film Theory Of Everything

Absolutely it would be interesting to have a TV Series that deals with Weyland and Yutani, there must have been Quite a Rivalry between them before the Merger.

My abandoned in 2013 Prometheus 2 went on to cover the Prelude to the Merger, and to Cover what Peter Weyland was trying to Accomplish.

It had a Prologue with David and Weyland in the Past, playing CHESS and it was Very Philosophical and about the Soul and Immortality.

We discover that while Advancements had been made Genetically and in case of Diseases etc...  Weyland still saw that we would be MORTAL AFTER-ALL... and so he saw that Synthetic Bodies where the WAY forwards.

It would reveal the AGENDA was to Create the Perfect Body/Vessel which would be David, and then Weyland wanted to Find a Way to Transcend a Soul to a A.I so that a Human (himself) could Transcend his Soul into a Synthetic Body for IMMORTALITY..... the A.I part was Project Rook.

He has allowed David more Freedom of Will and Emotions because he NEEDED to see if a A.I could handle such Human Things.... so that then his A.I Soul (Weyland) could be Transferred but the A.I could not Handle Emotions Well or a A.I Soul the resulting Transfer would become BROKEN and go MAD!  Which i think Ultimately we see signs of this with David in Alien Covenant.

Apart from Flash Backs.... Peter Weyland is GONE... but Vickers was in it and Very Much Alive (or is she). it was about Corporate Greed and Back Stabbing/Selling Out

It would have Yutani Geisha Assassin Androids ;)

Nothing about Xenomorphs.....  the Opening Scene (prior to Prologue) would have Engineers in a Short Flashback (show they came to Earth to take Primates to LV-223) Dr Shaw would only have a Small Role... (shorter if i took out the ONE Flash Back).  David also was NOT in it a lot.

The Ending would sew Seeds for the Merger, and it would indicate that a Yutani Mission is on its way to LV-223

It would have lead to 2 Sequels...  One would have been where David and Dr Shaw go which would NOT be about Xenomorphs or ALIEN....  the other would be more Alieny/Action  on LV-223 that would give more Clues to the Xenomorph.

"Ponder this...the Engineers might just have rivals...civilizations they cultured and brought about long ago that might be challenging them for supremacy,"

Certainly the Engineers Plot which is that WE are NOT alone, and so there could be Many Many Worlds and Races even dating back Millions of Years really does OPEN UP for Stories that can deal with such things in Many kinds of Ways.

*Are the Engineers the Original Human Species?

*Would they have had Interaction and Conflicts with other Intelligent Species that they had NOT Created or Evolved?

As the Engineers seem to be the Older Layer of the Creation Cake then one of the BIG QUESTIONS would be Who Created Them?   And it maybe would Follow with the Themes we have seen Running down the other Layers of the Cake and so MAYBE the Engineers had Rebelled against their Creators and the Technology is NOT the Engineers but their OWN Creators... they are the GODS NOW... Well Was!

Where the Engineers Created in the Image of their Creators?  Or could the HIGHER LAYERS be LESS than Human?

You could also be THROWN a Curve-ball.....   like what IF it was Mankind who Created Them?  And so we had Existed on other Worlds before Earth.

What if the TRUE GODS who Predated the Engineer are MACHINES or some kind of A.I

so there are MANY ways to Evolve the Story in regards to the Engineers Origins..

Blackwinter-witch Certainly look forwards to seeing how you deal with such things ;)

BlackAnt

To be fair, I have found some of your various points to be Interesting and thought-provoking.

And to everyone, if it seems at times like I've gone gibber-brained--I am attempting to get used to a new keyboard that has a VERY different key-feel than my previous one...so, apologies in advance if there's gibberish i don't catch and correct before hitting 'add reply'.

The helmet I always dismissed as 'okay, emergency helmet, and the air hose connect in the lower middle of the faceplate kinda makes sense'..but that was it. Same with the console, just went with 'okay, some computer action is going on, kicks off the story'

I always liked that opening scene but took it at face value- it was MUTHER awakening. I never understood the helmet since it was different from what the crew wore. I also didn't notice the little elephant dangling on the screen until now.  40 years in and there are still new things to see and consider.

The foreshadowing aspect of the opening scene and Kane later on never occurred to me, but I can see where the author is coming from. I don't recall RS ever commenting on it.

Thanks for sharing. It's always nice to see things like this.

VivisectedEngineer I really like your interpretation as well. I never thought of it in a broader Alien sense but it definitely makes sense. It's an old Sinatra tune. 

It would be interesting to see someone do your idea of splicing scenes together to the song with David.

Thanks for watching- it's pretty out of left field for the forum, but sometimes the YouTube rabbit hole leads to......well, I think most can relate to that.

First of all, i LOVE your interpretation. 

Second of all, I wasn't familiar with this song before, but now I love it. 

Actually, the song itself would be so perfect for David. Like, I'm picturing a sequel to Covenant where David tries to go further with his plans and then ultimately winds up failing.

Actually, I think we could make a music video with the scenes we already have. We need to edit it together so that decapitated David is at the end, so that looks like his ultimate fate. It could work!  

I'm not actually sure what the dancers were going for, but I'm very impressed with their coordination and ability to do this on a rotating stage without getting motion sick or falling off the edge. 

Also, the plot of the interpretive dance could actually represent an Alien movie. Like, the struggle, they alternate between coming together and throwing one another under the bus, they all start dropping like flies, and a lone woman makes it (almost) to the end.

@VivisectedEngineer

That is so nice of you to say and thank you....I rarely get any praise from anyone here. 

Your apology is accepted. I am not so sure I want to apologize for any thing because honestly I think you absolutely correct about my style of communication...I would not classify it as passive/aggressive...I do genuinely like all the people here very much.....if anything I go out of my way to make sure everyone here is treated as fairly as possible. I never swear at any one and I never try to cancel any one over any ideas they may have one way or another....these are spirited debates to be sure....and I get what you are saying that some things can be said that irritate people but I never to it ever in a malicious way....however having said that maybe somethings are perceived very differently than how I intended to convey them no matter how funny I thought it might be so I apologize if anything I said might have been interpreted as disrespectful.....Cheers!

VivisectedEngineer

Excellent post, well spoken, and covered many very good points.

Nice to see cooler heads than mine prevail.

@BlackAnt

Dude, BlackAnt, man, can I give you a little bit of advice? This is coming from me, someone who has struggled with social skills a bit and only now, being in my mid 30's do I have a better grasp of things.

It's important to learn to read the room, man. I can tell that you are very intelligent and if I'm honest, I think your conversational style is often funny. HOWEVER, it's important to gauge what the culture/norms of a specific setting are. 

So maybe in some forums a more aggressive/antagonistic style is tolerated or encouraged. But, if multiple people here are stating that the ribbing and name-calling aren't fun for them, then maybe just dial it back, ok?

It isn't a personal judgement against you, you see? Your mildly hostile conversational style isn't inherently wrong, until such time as you persist with it when people have politely asked you to stop. 

At that point it would be ok to say "Sorry I name-called you, I was only trying to make you laugh. But now that I know you don't like that I won't do it again." 

This is really the best response in that sort of situation, although, I know it's often easier to react defensively. 

Also, I would like to say, that earlier on in the conversation I accused you of being an android incapable of feeling pain or emotions.

I would like to take this moment now, to apologize if my statement made you feel aggrieved personally or if it violated the expectations of this forum in a more general sense. 

I do not actually think that about you and it was an attempt at humor. 

I think that all of you are super cool, honestly, and that pretty neat thought provoking conversations take place here. It's just important to converse in a way that respects everyone. 

BlackAnt

Oh, go right ahead...please do.

Of course then all your posts will be scrutinized, and if you delete them, they're still in the server archives and such.

And nice try in attempting to make me look like the instigator. However it's been tried against me and others here before--as you are trying right now--and the Admin is not a fool. My track record of behaviour around here speaks for itself--as does your lack of it in posts that have drawn the ire of others along with myself.

My track record however comes off as quite good--more people than merely myself have problems with you, as has been seen and stated in previous posts by them, and I know you've already been flagged with the Admin once, so by all means...keep it up, try your little games, such-like what you're trying in making me look like the aggressor...that is NOT new, or original, and this is the wrong place to try that insipid and inane trick.

I'll be keeping an eye on you, I have copies of all your posts as do the servers and Admin, and if you start harrassing/attacking people here again, I'll flag you, and that along with the previous Flag isn't a good thing.

So don't threaten me, you are in no position to do so with any credibility.

From here on in, I will have nothing more to do you with by way of any replies/responses.

You've been Warned, duly and properly.

Conduct yourself and mitigate your behaviour accordingly.

Hey, Thanks Blackwinter-Witch... That's really cool-of-You to think so! You are GREAT! I've made suggestions upon here before & some really kind, GREAT people commented in very complimatary ways about the ideas I have been suggesting & coming up with. It would really be great to be involved with the warm enthusiasm of many of You out there towards some of the things I've talked to You about... It would be really cool if the owners of the franchise began branching out into different arteries of narrative exploration so-to-speak.

There have been loose rumours recently of some selmace of a show or two shows with regards to a sreaming idea being considered. We'll see soon, I guess... :-) !

I'm only surprised they didn't come about sooner. lol

The Film Theory Of Everything

That is an extraordinary idea!! That would be truly epic, and the sheer potential for storytelling is just incredible, and able to handle all scales of such!

This idea of yours NEEDS to Happen!

VivisectedEngineer

Yeppers! Science fiction gives us a magic mirror, that let's us try on different views of ourselves, our civilization and the universe itself...

I think that's why I love it so much!

Thoughts_Dreams

BigDave

Blackwinter-Witch

I've stated to You BigDave a longtime back when We-both had a real interesting back-&-forth fleshing-out an idea /hypothosis We were both trying to make work & I said what if they extended the franchise into technically executed series like WESTWORLD only I proposed that they call it simply: WEYLAND Set in near future yet futuristic time, charting the rise of the companies journey to prominance & technical supiriority. What things they were getting involved in almost a BLADE RUNNER TV/Streaming series exploring WEYLAND'S experimenting in A.I., space colonisation, the rise of the UTANI corporation & the signifigance of the part they had to play in the grand scheme of things, the inevitable WEYLAND-UTANI merger & the machinations that ultimately & inevitably led up to the merger in the first place...

Maybe in time there could be a spin-off series called "UTANI" running parallel to that of WEYLAND: BUILDING BETTER WORLDS about what corporate manuevering they (UTANI) were doing or wiil do to wind-up merging with WEY-CORP. It's seen from UTANIS' point-of-view.

It would very much play like WESTWORLD to some degree... You can even begin with the Peter Weyland TED Talk deleted scene from PROMETHEUS as a segway into the familiarity of the franchise, focusing in on critical characters & infastructure they manage. I want to see how this affects there relationships with each other & how those encounters, in turn, affect there moral compass in the choices they end up making that will affect the lives of many throughout, at this point in time, the solar system. I suppose a little: THE EXSPANSE sounding but with the embelishment of other influences: LOST, handled in a very calculating, edgy kind-of-way regarding production value, writing concepts, themes & tone.

Here's a few images I photoshopped together from WESTWORLD intro credit scenes & a screen capture of the PROMETHEUS BlueRay Main Menu Intro that would give a feel as-to the personality a "WEYLAND" TV/Streaming series/mini-series would come across like through the screen during its opening credit scenes & ending with the title WEYLAND wih the subtitle below:

             WEYLAND:                                                             BUILDING BETTER WORLDS 

@Blackwinter-witch

Sounds brilliant!

"...and we're violent, dangerous, obstinate as well as xenophobic while also being entirely unwilling to be dictated to by a 'superior power'."

I love these sort of themes in sci fi. Where humanity is either too brutal and unsophisticated to get along with other intelligent species or too indomitable to be successfully subjugated for very long. 

Sci fi is such a great way to examine how we view ourselves, what values we hold up as "superior" and how we wish to progress, as a species. 

Those are pretty cool! I'm not sure where I'd be able to wear them, though. 

I recently ordered me some polos with the Weyland Yutani logo in the crest to wear to work. I realized that if you don't look too close, the Weyland Yutani logo looks a lot like the logo of the school where i teach. 

...Like, I expect the other nerds on the science team to notice immediately. It's only the principal's nose I need to slip it under lol.

@Blackwinter-witch

Right? I never gave that a second thought. I did always think that the button thing sticking out of the helmet was kind of weird and sort of wondered about it, but never made the connection. 

And the narrator is right, the opening sequence is very "hypnotic". Like, I don't have a long attention span, but I've never been bored by the opening sequence even though it has no dialogue or real action. 

I also liked his observation about the "flatulence noise". I never noticed that, but he's so right! 

Blackwinter-witch please stop calling me a troll...I already asked you politely to stop once before....and you keep harassing me.....If you refer to me as a troll one more time I will report you to the admin.

I have nothing against you and have no problems with you being here and do not wish you to harass me any more...if you continue I will ask that your account be flagged immediately.

Man, those guys do some really excellent work!!!

Thoughts_Dreams

You raise a good point, and one I agree with. I do my best, and I know that the end result is not and never will be Perfect.

But, I do know when I hit the point that I know in my bones I just can not make a work any better and it's time to finish it and get it out for people to read and enjoy, perfection be damned.

That's part of being a writer--strive for Perfection, knowing you'll never reach it, knowing that at a certain point you have done all and as best you can, and aware of the fact that weeks or months later you'll have a Great Idea...but it's like the barn doors closing after the horses have run out. lol

Honestly, I really think based on personal experience that one has to be something of a masochist to be a writer. lol

VivisectedEngineer

Loved the points about David and Sociopathy...I'd say you nailed that one bullseye!!

Wow...

That's a good vid and he finds some really good points to ponder. I NEVER gave even an instant's thought to the little dangly figurine we see by Kane's console in that opening shot with the console activating...

Thanks for posting about this!!!!

BigDave

OH, okay, I'm back-on-track topic wise...kinda lost my footing for a bit.

Engineers and What Else & Other Things...

Ponder this...the Engineers might just have rivals...civilizations they cultured and brought about long ago that might be challenging them for supremacy, attempting to supplant them...as do children with regards to their parents.

Possibly, they encountered civilizations as ancient as their own in some of the other galaxies, who have a Different Perspective about how Life is supposed to be created, cultured and such??

Also, maybe Humans are THE rivals to Engineers in our own galaxy, we achieve in mere centuries what must have taken them millenia, and we're violent, dangerous, obstinate as well as xenophobic while also being entirely unwilling to be dictated to by a 'superior power'.

That said...there's question of why there was no follow-up regarding the aborted extermination of Earth, which was planned and prepped--stopped only be the 'accidental?' release of the Black Liquid Pathogen before the ship was launched.

In ORIGINS, I'm trying to give some universe-plausible answers to some of the many excellent points you raised and a good story for people to have a good, solid geek-out on...I seriously doubt I'll be able to do such regarding all your points, but then again--life should always have some mysteries left Unanswered, yes?

BlackAnt

Seen your kind of forum-troll behaviour before, as have we all. Your Progressivist wordplay with PolCorr crap is a script, you don't even get points for 'effort'. 

Actually, your entire 'style' reminds me of another troublemaker from a couple years back...I forget the name, but you sound exactly like that person--just with semi-updated lingo and politiculture terminology.

I've been reading through your posts, and you're abusive, disrespectful, denigrating, abrasive, rude, and utterly lacking in proper forum manners and courtesy.

You came here to attack people and try to browbeat folks into accepting your word as the final one on any issue.

Like I said, around here we've all seen this exact behaviour pattern you've demonstrated in your posts and addressing of other members before...you're just the most recent one to try such here.

Attack my friends on this forum though, in any way that I deem 'serious' and I WILL flag you with the forum owner...count on it, and he's not one to let folks like you get away with too much--consider yourself Warned, duly and properly.

What are my criteria for determining when you step 'over the line'?

Yeah, I'll answer that as soon as you finish serving out ice water with lemon to all the folks in Hell first.

Whew! Looks like a lot's happening around here, since I looked away for a sec. ...Glad to see everyone's as lively as ever. 

Anyways, @dk

"Even humans can fake it to make it. Humans have a pretty robust history of sociopaths. What else could be expected from an android being programmed by another sociopath?"

Ok, yes, I think this is an excellent point. When someone designs a program he cannot avoid his own biases and values influencing his design. 

And sociopaths are a good example. The do not lack any and all emotion, but they do fake emotions that they do not have. 

For example, they act in their own self interests because of their personal desires, their ability to fake consideration for others (when it suits them) is part of what makes them so charismatic. 

This is the case for David. He has his own personal desires and motives but is also good at faking emotions that do not match the ones he's feeling at a given moment. 

BigDave,

"But when we look at the Engineers it would appear that for Many Hundreds of Millions of Years their 

Technology has NOT really Advanced much"

I think it is possible aliens could plateau to a degree; however, I would also just as easily say they just keep right on evolving because their advanced technology such as as sentient AI trillions of times more complex than what we think of in terms of computing power.

In that reply with the two extra terrestrials I was implying that even though they are only 75,000 years apart in technology and advancements the first alien species is inter-galactic and the other alien species is still more humanoid and confined by the limits of a single galaxy they inhabit....the second one is still finding their way around their local neighborhood.

Inter-galactic in real time implies so many things technologically. First it implies real time communication with distances that are billions of light years away from every subatomic particle from where you are at right now, and not a 50,000 thousand light years in only one galaxy.

In other words I am estimating that an alien civilization just 100,000 years more advanced than us right now would have everything at the subatomic level, that we consider the Big Bang, mapped in real time in a database, in real time, every single second.

Human computing power after the next 5000 years of human evolution cannot be extrapolated - perhaps computers with 10^1000000000000^10000000000000000^10000000000000000000000000000 bits per second and it would just keep expanding exponentially, through that scientific notation every single second. These would only be Qubit computers in quantum entanglement...not higgs field computers. 

BigDave there are only about 10^64 known particles in what we consider the BIG BANG! NOT 10^1000000000000000000000 OK - and that would be based on a higgs field computer just 100 - 500 years from now. Those are really Big numbers....higgs field machines are very powerful so powerful in fact they can simulate entire universes....please watch the show DEVS.....

"In the Many Worlds or Everett interpretation, both possibilities continue to exist, but "we" (the macroscopic observers) are split into two, one that observes a live cat and one that observes a dead one. ... But these two new ones go explicitly for the "multiverse = many-worlds"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

Inter-galactic and inter-dimensional implies "multiverse" an astounding amount of advancements beyond our own human computers; but, nothing compared to a billion years of sentient AI mixed with biology....I believe the scene in Prometheus is the engineers seeding all life on earth at least 1 billion years prior?

What I find more complex and interesting, even though the science about the engineers is obviously depicted incorrectly, is that the engineers would have any need to do such things on an inter-galactic scale... or even in a simulation or otherwise?

Might be like playing the same game over and over for hundreds of millions of years....obviously we have to have concepts the audience can relate to in the Alien films....this discussion is just for the forum's edification.

In other words you would not take your microscope and go to the other side of the planet to identify and classify another piece of sand. It would be a waste of your time in terms of your thinking, resources, and comprehension about science in general.

What may ultimately happen to us and these other more evolved aliens is that they go inward and not outward farther and farther....but we really do not know what is out there several trillion light years from us...the physics could be wildly different and so could the life forms that inhabit those other dimensions, Inter-dimensional, is interesting because it implies simulated computational advanced computing. Lets say for example you had a computer a few million years more advanced than the computers you have now and you have simulated even more advanced universes that are trillions as times as large, and real in every detail...but they only exist in the computer program simulating them....DNA just become irrelevant or does it?

There is no way to tell that what the engineers are doing depicted in these movies is not just a simulation.....in other words they are just interacting with us as a purely fictional aspect of their computers projecting us.....similar to a video game but absolutely real in every way down the every simulated electrons......

Also I would say that it might be impossible to stay the same for very long periods of time in an infinite universe. Change is always happening through out eternity.

The more likely scenario is that things progress faster and faster exponentially the more you comprehend.

With respect to DNA sure it could be evolved for a few hundred, perhaps even a few more thousand years....but why would want to do that when you have computers that can manipulate the higgs field and make what ever you want when ever you want how ever you want trillions of times as fast and more complex for eternity.

Thought_Dreams, you are doing the very same thing to me right now...and I would ask that you just stop it as well...please reread the comments you posted before you judge me any more....enough!!

Did I not say I have nothing against you....then be done with it please....and that will be all. Unless every time I post something you will say something negative that is not true that you are doing yourself and many others.

Whether I post a funny info graphic or not is not badgering you or anyone else...or being a troll...I do not post endless negative comments here that are offensive to everyone and you know that to be not true...so please end your negative behavior.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I certainly think that the Franchise should-not revolve around A.I too much.... when we looked at ALIEN and the Franchise as so we had seen enough of Ripley, Xenomorphs, you do NEED other Humans... maybe you could explore A.I but certainly NOT to be the Emphasis of it.

It was then about going to Cover the Origins of the Xenomorph and also more so WHO the Space Jockey was.

The PLOT they went with was to NOT make this Species as ALIEN, but to bring about the Creators Plot....and Connected Themes.... and so this Expanded to WHAT is a Creation, WHY would you Create?  WHAT happens when your Creation becomes Sentient and wishes to NOT serve the Creator.

This theme was a CAKE of Layers or a LADDER with Runs where the Latest Layer/Run was DAVID...

so it Evolved to were we are Supposed to look at these Themes in Context to the Last Incarnation of Creation which was David.... and so i think Ridley Scott was getting us to Question... WHAT IS CREATION and WHY?

And so to Suggest that DOES a Creation that can become Intelligent/Sentient have to be BIOLOGICAL?

But this seemed to put the Emphasis too much on David and his Character became something that some are NOT Happy with..  I think the MAIN thing is when looking Beyond Mankind and Beyond ALIEN...  then it should be about the SPACE JOCKEY...  should be about WHO they are and WHY they Created and WHO created them..

Rather than to have it about David and WHY he was Created and WHAT he will Create.

I think its Interesting.... but before such a PLOT was Given... i think the Emphasis should have been on the Layers of the Cake that are ABOVE ourselves and NOT about what came AFTER and from us.

While David is the Proxy to the Cautionary Tale of Sub-Creation, Rebellion i think its too much about HIM.  I think we can Safely Assume this TALE would END with David being Upended by something that HE had Created and tried to RULE over that becomes Sentient and Rebels.

Where as WHEN you looked back at ALIEN and your like ok so we have seen a LOT of the Xenomorph, and ONCE you answer to WHERE they came from.... then it HAD to be about the Space Jockey.... as they are the Engineers then it should be about WHO ARE THEY?  And WHAT ELSE have they Created and WHO Created them.

@Blackwinter-witch

Certainly is a Great Point about the Void of Space the Loneliness of Space.   This is Part of the Horror in that you could be someone in SPACE and things DONT go to Plan or you Encounter a Horror...

So that you are so Isolated that by the Time anyone hears your SCREAMS (gets your SOS) it would take them a LONG TIME to come to your AID....  This is what makes things more Terrifying.

So absolutely with Star Trek and Star Wars we have Species (quite a lot) that have FTL Travel that is SO BEYOND what Humans from Earth have....    So i think that YES for the ALIEN Franchise you dont want anything like "Oh HELP we have encountered Alien Species on LV-426"  then "we will get to you ASP but its gonna take us a Day to get there"

So i think you dont want to have Human Technology to Advanced, in Star Trek and Star Wars we do see them able to Traverse the Galaxy really Fast (Especially Star Wars)  and so being able to like Travel to say LV-426 in even Hours would take away some of the Horror of being Stranded Far from Home.

When i am talking about the  Engineers though and looking at WHAT else they have Created, i am not really looking at it as being in Terms of HOW our Species can Reach them.

So i am looking at Interactions between Species and Conflicts in the FAR reaches of the Galaxy that are Beyond what Weyland-Yutani could Dream of Reaching in 2122-2179

I think this brings us to a PROBLEM that was Faced with a Prometheus 2.... you need Humans to help with the Plot/Story and having just Dr Shaw would simply be enough and so HOW do you get more Humans?  This is where i FEEL that Planet 4 was made too Close to Earth for the Convenience of the Covenant Mission.

But then it comes down to this QUESTION?

Is the Earth the only Place the Engineers had Humans?

so when i was working on ideas that would be Prometheus 3 then David and Dr Shaw did arrive at a World.. a World that had HUMANS... a World that was HOWEVER... over 10'000 Light Years away.  But it could have been 25'000 or 50'000 LY.

So you have Humans, you are at a World that would NOT have to Conflict with the Alien Franchise... but then its HOW do you Communicate with these Humans... well i had ways around that ;)

So what i am saying is like Star Wars... that had Humans but in a Galaxy FAR FAR Away.... that could apply to the Engineers and Worlds they Seed/Evolve...  But i agree to NOT make it so much like Star Wars.... so it was more like the BSG Plot with Caprica for example.

So what i mean is when looking at other Humans and other Species then the ALIEN Franchise could look at these as being FAR FAR from Earth and so NO interaction with our Humanity.  Unless its after the events of Aliens/Alien 3.

I do think However that the Real Advanced Technology should be Limited to a Few who are Connected to, Predate or Descend from the Engineers.  So that any other Species that are say 10'000+ Light Years away have NO knowledge of Earth and NO way to reach Earth in say Less than Hundreds of Years.

so that we have a Expanded Franchise within the ALIEN Universe by Virtue of the Engineers Plot... and NOT having anything that Directly Ties and interacts with the W-Y Company and Earth.

Because on thing to CONSIDER when expanding on the Engineers has to be the Consequences to the Plot for the ALIEN Franchise as in W-Y/USM in the Time-line of 2122-2379 by that introducing say Returning Engineers to our PART of the Galaxy could Conflict with the Original Franchise...  So any kind of WAR OF THE WORLDS would certainly be a Conflict... Unless RS was planning on REBOOT everything after ALIEN ;)

Thanks for the Reply ;)

I was looking at this Topic as far as Multiple ways to look at it, some as far as say Human Advancements in 100, 200, 500 Years.  And  then looking at Engineers as in Thousands of Years.  Lets say what could we be like in 5-10 Thousand Years.

I think when we are talking the ENGINEERS as far as the Back Ground then i do agree you make Great Points about if this Species are even say 500 Million Years more Advanced than us then they should have Technology and Appear to us Beyond what we can Comprehend.

The Original Idea of the Engineers did seem to imply this Species have to be over a Billion Years Old, the Sacrificial Scene if we take it that this (even though may not be on Earth) is what they had been doing to Earth in the Past would mean the Engineers had the Technology we saw in the Sacrificial Scene like Over 500 Million Years at Least.... likely it could also be Over 1 Billion.

So i think in Context to the Point you are raising, then any Ancient Species that have Existed and have been Technologically Beyond what we have NOW for say Hundreds of Millions of Years... would be BEYOND what we would Comprehend.

But when we look at the Engineers it would appear that for Many Hundreds of Millions of Years their Technology has NOT really Advanced much... 

Do Ancient Species reach a Certain Level and then they Advance No Further?  Is this because they HIT a Technological Wall?  Or by Choice?

So i guess what i am saying is that the Engineers dont appear to really be as ADVANCED as you would expect for a Race that have had such Technology we have seen in Prometheus for 500M+ Years never mind Billions.

I think you raise some interesting points when you show images of GREY ALIENS.... IF we assume such a Thing is Real....  then its a case of WHEN and COULD we Advance to that Level in the Future?

Evolution is a Product of its Environment and Survival... to Naturally Evolve to such Radical Changes as far as Appearance could take Millions of Years.

But when we are talking about a Engineered Evolution then thats when things can get Fast Tracked.... so a Human Species that Evolves its Technology and Genetics could INDEED look Very Very Different in say 25-50 Thousand Years... Never mind Hundreds of Thousands.

So i think if we looked at the Engineers as a Race who have Knowledge and Technology to Traverse to Galaxies, and have been able to Travel around our Galaxy for Hundreds of Millions of Years at a Minimum.   Then i think in Reality it would be HARD to believe they would LOOK so Human.

some of the Concept Ideas for the Engineers made them appear FAR from Human looking.

I guess the Human Appearance was Necessary in order to allow them to be Connected to and WHO are behind the Religions and Mythos of the ANCIENT GODS... who appear to be Very Human looking.

BlackAnt

When you're being rude, sarcastic and childish that is when people dislike you, do you see that? If they tell you that you're a troll I'm not surprised. A troll is someone that tries:

". . . to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/troll

Which is a big part of what you are doing on this forum. If you can't see how that fits your behavior here then try again. There are comments that you have done in this thread that back up my claims so there is no need to go far back to get proof.

The Who are you people kind of picture goes under the irrelevant and offensive comments because it is belittling people because it comes off like you are worth more than them for what ever reason. Be a part of the discussions if you want but drop the offensive attitude.

Exactly wrong though.....Thought_Dreams, everyone has their gripes is all I am saying...and for the most part everyone gets along great! 

But when people just start calling each other Trolls or other expletives, which, I do not do....I never swear at any one or ever call them a troll! or ever try to cancel anyone on here ever!!! never!

I have never suggested ever at any time that anyone should leave the chat because of what they said...it's always been about the discussion of it! always.

I have nothing against you Thought_Dreams nothing....but everyone says stuff they do not like about each others comments or this franchise and it is not always pretty LOL and you know it! 

"NO MORE CANCEL CULTURE! GET OVER IT PLEASE AND IF YOU CANNOT TOO BAD!"

To me that reads like: I want to be able to be childish and offensive if I want and if you don't like it F you. Why does that make me think of a certain politician? ;)

"I can take criticism constructive or not seems like there are some people who cannot."

Without being childish and throwing insults? Try it