Comments (Page 656)
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"ridley was right I think, the xeno has been done"
This is not Longer the Case... it appears FOX feel the Franchise was about the Xenomorph... and RS agrees and plans are now to make it more about the Xenomorph, but RS also likes the Curve-ball about David and the effects of AI getting out of control and In Control....
I am just waiting to see what the AC Backlash does and see if FOX/RS decided in Hindsight David creating the Xenomorph and the Derelict Eggs thus being on LV-426 for no more than 10 years or so... was a MISTAKE
Then see FOX backtrack and have it that Actually David just recreated it, and the Originals came from a Queen and then bring the Queen and Ripley back to please the FANBOYS..
I am concerned they could go this route ^^^
Well Said Kethol
The Plan would have been that by showing us the Engineers Culture and Hierarchy and revealing a bit about the Black Goo, should have provided more clues to the Xenomorph no doubt once Ridley Scott had done a Prometheus Trilogy...
But some fans would not have accepted this, because they would need a Movie with the Egg, Face Hugger and Xenomorph from Alien in it and a Movie that Tells people Step by Step where the Alien came from and Spoon Fed Space Jockey/Derelict Event.
Prometheus and its Sequel was setting up those answers, clearly the Black Goo was connected, clearly the LV-223 Outpost Proximity was connected, clearly the reasons the Engineers wanted us destroyed and the experiments they was carrying out that back fired are connected.
Just not Spoon Fed enough.....
So Ridley Scott has gone back and given them more a Alien Connection, with these movies drawing us more closer and closer to LV-426... rather than explore the Engineers and were else they are from and their Agenda.
So now Fans who wanted Answers have been given them but again some Fans feel AC did not do enough, they are in protest (well some are) about Davids creation of it.
End of the Day the Answers was connected to the Black Goo.. just with Fans Wanting Aliens so RS gave them F£!^$&" Aliens has he put it..
Now they have gone to indeed show the Black Goo = Xenomorphs the Xenomorphs came from it but they just showed us that David uses this stuff to create them.
So all thats mainly Changed is RS/FOX have maybe felt Fans wanted the Xenomorph back rather than explore those beings who had played a hand in the Black Goo that created the Xenomorphs and how they did so in a attempt to wipe out Mankind because they had became Displeased and Felt Threatened by us.
So RS and FOX have just taken the Peed Off Engineers attempt to destroy Mankind with the Black Goo... to now a Peed off Android attempts and successfully creates the Xenomorph to wipe out Mankind and the Engineers.
Another Major Problem and its the same with Star Wars movies... is every Fan seems to expect What they want out of the movies...
Oh NO they killed off Solo.... is just similar to Oh NO they killed off Hicks etc.
In General Alien Franchise is a SCI-FI Alien Movie.
Every movie has a attempt at a bit of Horror and Action just by the notion of Scary Aliens killing people....
But then ALIEN was more guided at the Psychological Horror take on a Alien Sci-Fi movie, rather than Gore and Blood, ALIENS was more of a Popcorn Action take on a Alien Sci-Fi movie.
The Problem is every Fan has a Preference and Dislike to every Alien Movie, and each one changed the kind of Theme... ALIEN was a Horror in space, ALIENS was a Action in Space, and ALIEN 3 attempted to go back to ALIEN Hunted House kind of Movie... While ALIEN RESURRECTION was more a Popcorn Action flick like ALIENS.
Prometheus attempted to do something different, it did not have as much Horror Aspect, it did not have any real Action to it, it tried to cover more the Story Behind the Xenomorph Origins (which many could not see) and offer some Thought Provoking Philosophical Elements.
Which some fans liked.... but then some fans did not, because there was no Horror, no Action and No Xenomorphs and a bit to much Emphasis on Engineers, Gods, Creation etc and attempts to show the Black Goo as connected to the Xeno with out Spoon Feeding the Xenomorph... Then we got the Fans who wanted to see the Entire Space Jockey Event played out on Screen.
Its the things in BOLD that brought about the Changes... that made Alien Covenant where it attempted to bring in Horror, Action the Xenomorph, something Fresh and still have some of what Prometheus was doing..
It tried to please everyone by giving a little bit of what everyone should have WANTED
But Ultimately it did not give everyone enough of what they Wanted...
@BigDave sounds like a good step in the story and hope some of it somehow makes it to the screen. For me I was after a story of origin not just xenemorphs running around killing people. Prometheus for me was a good film or premise to a good film as it touched on things or hinted with the mural etc.
Maybe the xenemorph was an advanced species at one time and the type we have seen created is more of a de-evolved version like man v cave man etc.
There is so much of a story to be told and I wish FOX would allow this but they seem to want to put there own twist to it.
@daliens
The % of likes 79% is just one source, and we need to remember a lot of people have been Vocal About the Moving being a Pile of Poop... well the Negative and also Slandering Comments... i saw the Honest Trailer thingy well ONE, i think there are more and i am not interested in them because while some of the stuff is funny, i think its a little harsh.
Many took to the internet to Slate Prometheus too.
I think here is where the Problem lies with these reviews and videos... by its Nature People seem to be more willing to Protest when they Dislike something more than they are willing to Praise when they like something. Most people would complain to a Restaurant if their Food was not good, or if they are not the kind of people to complain, they will complain to their friends or online about their experience . But indeed more % of people would go back and complain about the Quality or Service if it was Poor, than actually go and find a Member of Staff and say "wow that Food was amazing thank you" its only when your asked by them how your Food was that most people would say it was nice.. rarely if it was just Ok would you say.. it was OK lol But if it was Bad you generally would complain to Management of Staff of a Bad Experience, than call them over and Praise them for a Good One.
And the same applies to those Alien Covenant Videos, just because their seems to be more of a Negative Vibe as far as comments and such on Youtube etc.... Does not mean the Movie is a Bad one for everyone who has seen it.
A number of Movie rating Services have actually averaged Alien Covenant to be like a 6.5/10 but a lot depends how people use a Rating System.
Like with me a 5/10 is Average, 6/10 above Average, 4/10 Bellow Average, 7/10 Good etc... And i see Alien Covenant as a 6/10 Tops.. but thats on my scale.
Indeed i think it points to the Engineers not being far up the Hiearchy Tree. The Source i had who had information only based no the Paglen/Green Draft had hinted that Mankind is now the 4th/5th Generation of Mankind and that we do not Evolve from Apes but Engineers DNA plays a key role. They seem to hint at different versions of Mankind or even that Earlier Mankind pre-existed the Engineers. And they claimed those LV-223 Engineers well the Prometheus Engineers are more closer to David than us and that Mankind actually have more to do with the Xenomorph than Engineers.. They also claimed that Biblical Events and Punishments by GOD actually happened in context to the Franchise but not to our Generation of Mankind.
As Far as the Goo goes... i always looked at it as a Creation Tool to, i see it as some kind of Substance that is used to break down and then store DNA of a Organism that consumes the Original Substance and the resulting Broken Down Genetic Material stores the Sacrificial Hosts DNA.
This New Material/Substance then can be used to infect Organisms where it will pass on the best Traits of the Organism that was Sacrificed to make the Black Goo while Evolving the Best Traits of the Organism that comes into contact with this New Substance.
Thus the Black Goo in Prometheus i feel was obtained by using the Sacrificial Goo on some Organism related too if not the Organism that was in the Mural
@ Alexber127
OMG! Tell me more about this game :)
Thank you. I would use also the Neomorphs and the facehugger that got Lope and the Lander One explosion.
I would probably use as well David when getting out of the cathedral as Walter, looking back inside towards the Protomorph then running to the cargo lift. That's one of my favorites scenes of the movie.
And at the end I would show Walter wandering alone on the empty Paradise
Wow, good pick! "It takes an ocean not to break" it really captures the feeling of hopelessness one would experience in that situation. I'd put a bunch of really intense scenes like Oram's facehugging near the end where the song reaches a crescendo!
Gosh dang! That song really is eerily perfect for the David/Shaw situation! The lyrics are very David. I can really imagine a video for this using clips from Advent.
joylitt - the growing pessimism of these movies? they have been pessimistic/nihilistic from the start. respectfully, that is their appeal, in a world where so much of our culture is shiny, smiley and almost pathologically optimistic. so an Alien movie without the darkness would not work at all. Resurrection is not well liked because it is a comedy, although a dark comedy. Personally, I like a lot of things in AR, and if you search for Slavoj Zizek on the embryo discovery scene, that adds a lot of interest. but dark, atheistic, nihilistic, anxious, horrifying - that's why why love these movies!
(and yes, I wear a lot of black....)
Great analysis Michelle!
I agree with all you say. It’s a shame that execs pay so much attention to fan pressure, or that a culture of belligerent ownership among so many fans has become commonplace. Many classics would not have found their final shape if fans had dictated the outcome, or producers had always compelled the director to play it safe. An auteur can’t function if he/she’s not given the space to take a story in an interesting, though not immediately multiplex crowd-pleasing direction.
Ridley’s first instinct, to follow a sideways route into the discovery and creation-myth of the monster, was correct, in my opinion, and the ‘compromise movie’ that Michelle so rightly calls it, and that we got with Covenant, is always going to be an awkward beast.
I can only hope that, if Fox reduces his budget, they give him full license with Awakening, and that Ridley follows his own star.
Seph7 - where have you seen a Prometheus workprint?
Well, considering the fast growing rate and the fact they can regenerate without any nutrients, it may be alive. It doesn't seem to kill for food, probably only to cleanse the place for egg morphing. It is the perfect organism.
However the Neomorph was munching on Rosenthal, so it may need food to survive.
Alien Redemptions (Alien Isolation 2) Is already in development
on the whole aliens was very well received by the vast majoriy of viewers and critics. AC has not been so fortunate. in this review the person is picking up on small details which, though important, can be over looked when there has been sound character building and the film follows a steady arc which is evident in aliens. AC doesn't, imo, do any of these which, in my view, is the basic reason many are disappointed in AC and I don't think it will change in time. for many, there are too many 'larger' issues with AC that in their opinion makes AC a badly done movie. it should have been an epic and had the potential laid out by Prometheus to be so, but it hasn't lived up to the billing and has failed to fulfil its potential.
For the Advent clip exploring David's experiments I'd pick
TOOL - Schism
It is disturbingly eerie when the lyrics are looked at applied to the relationship between David and Shaw.
That and Guitarist Adam Jones was a student of the late Stan Winston Studio and worked on several of the Alien and Predator sets!!
Yes, well, 10 years have gone by, so even if there are bodies scattered about on LV-223 to munch on, the Deacon would most likely be dead by now, unless it can get into some kind of dormancy, awaiting hosts to come by (like the eggs on LV-426)?
red0guy@gmail.com 79% of google users who can be quite significant. And if you looked at the screenshot taken today not all reviews are favourable. I don't believe google take sides in this dilemma and i don't believe they are disingenuous.
I read the bad reviews as well, mostly on this forum and why somebody would keep posting bad reviews here if not for trolling?
And since when Honest Reviews has become the norm to be quoted by other review sites? I do not know how often this happened before because I am not following Honest Reviews.
For me it all looks like a smear campaign paid by the Blomkamp & Co. fan base.
In my opinion Covenant had a good writing, much better than Prometheus, not to mention Aliens.
It may not be the perfect movies, it may go far from the Alien fans expectations, but this does not justify all the hate posted here. This is an Alien Covenant fans forum. A debate is good but not starting with Honest Reviews bs trailer.
That's my honest opinion and I will stand by it.
well said kethol. too many people whined n so we get AC. the movie we deserve. maybe in future people will learn to just let a director tell the story. the Prometheus story is the one I want to see. ridley was right I think, the xeno has been done. nothing wrong with seeing some new creatures but its time to move into the engineers world
@daliens 79% of how many people liked it? And how do they define to "like"? If you don't specify that you're argument is not valid. And not mentioning the less favorable sites is even more disingenuous.
They did not alienate because of change but because of how the film was conceived and because they had no guts to make they film they wanted. At least Scott did not. And bad writing does not help either. The only thing that they seem to have put thought into is David's laboratory and who to mutilate Shaw. Sorry what movie could be made around that?
You if compare the size of the newborn Protomorph in Covenant to the one of the newborn Deacon in Prometheus, the fully grown Deacon has to be huge. I wonder if it is still alive on LV223.
iv heard this. I can accept it but just another thing in AC that makes me dislike the film.
id say there will be a connection between the prequels and derelict. the derelict is the whole reason we got alien so id assume the connection between the prequels and the original film will be the derelict. I hope not though, I hope they find another way to connect them and keep the derelict as an ancient ship that lander or crashed millennia ago
Well, since David has now revealed what he’s done, and secrecy no longer is needed, he doesn’t, of course, have to follow WY’s plan - the colonization of Origae-6 anymore. He can do whatever pleases him. Most likely, he would then take The Covenant to LV-223. There are many facilities there, plenty of mutagen/pathogen, many spacecraft, and - a Deacon. He has also brought with him guinea pigs in abundance (2000). The last battle could take place there, and it’s also close to LV-426.
@BigDave some good thoughts and I hope some aspects make it to the movie.
I think like you say the nano tech needs maybe the other substance as a catalyst ? as it alters biological/DNA.
I do hope we see beings that are more advanced than the engineers, they dont need to dominate the film maybe appear as cut scene that implies they exist and show that they are creators.
As you say we will have to wait and see.
When does fox ever make a good decision.. that is the biggest question.
I think fox will do the next film, if not they may sell teh franchise and someone will probably pick it up.
joylitt I think you're speaking for Blomkamp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC2N_5e9EVg
For the feelings of being lost and overwhelmed in an alien world, anxiety creeping and taking over I would choose The National - Terrible Love.
Well, it doesn't have to be a direct connection to the Derelict if the engineers created the xenomorph (in a facility on LV-223). If David did (on Planet 4, The Covenant or Origae-6), then there has to be.
Jonesy Yes, I like that. That's exactly what needs to happen
The more bad publicity, the more chance AC will become an underrated film.
And the negativity may be a good thing. The sequel may tend to shift to a new direction, bring out a new formula and creativity without the pressure of following the previous ones.
How strange, when I google for Alien Covenant I don't get all the bad reviews I read here.
I don't see how this movie alienates a huge part of the audience when 79% of the google users liked it.
I thought this is a fan forum for Alien Covenant, but apparently it is for the idiots at honest reviews.
I think the Paolo Nutini song loud on the speakers was more out of place than the rest of the scene. For me it was the best acting of Callie Hernandez (Upworth) in the whole movie, her expression looked real as she desperately tried to pull Ricks away from the beast .
The alien had to get them and I don't see a better place to surprise them.
That Aliens review is totally right, I feel the same about that movie, totally dumb. Maybe that guy loved Alien and could not stand seeing how the xenomorph was turned into a bug to justify Cameron's idea of an insectoid queen. So yes, I consider Aliens the dumbest movie of the franchise and I don't get all the praise for it. I can understand your point that the wording didn't change much in the negative reviews. But again all the critics expected to see Prometheus 2. Will be Awakening Aliens 2? I hope not.
"What changed exactly to make Ridley decide to abandon that aspect and go more towards the actual Alien that we were gonna see anyways at the end of the last prequel? "
That certainly was not the original direction the sequel was going into. What changed is that a lot of people who disliked Prometheus whined on forums that they wanted the familiar old aliens back, not Engineers and androids. They whined and whined, and Fox and Ridley finally decided to cave in and change the direction of the story to give them what they were saying they wanted.
Unfortunately, that was not who they should have been catering too. They should have stuck to their guns and given the fans of Prometheus the next chapter they had been waiting for!
dk, thanks for the Primus. Have you listened to The Claypool Lennon Delirium?
