Comments (Page 676)

I think it would be interesting if they do indeed, bring in another David or another Model that maybe looks different.. and what if it looked like a Guy Pearce but make him look as young as the TED Talk...  well get rid of the Grey Hairs.

And one of the incoming parties is this Weyland Synthetic, with Weylands AI and then the look on Davids Face when he meets his Master once again who now is a Synthetic or a Synthetic Construct.. and so now Weyland has some kind of Immortality and while David has set up events to Gift the Company`his Creation... David would not know that its Synthetic Weyland who is behind all the espionage with David.

David then realizes now his Creator is more Superior and proclaims Davids work for his own, as he did Create David after all... and so we see David know faces his Creator again who is now the more superior and David now Fears he will no longer be the King or Free.

The Synthetic Weyland is even more Arrogant than the real Weyland and more Crazy/Flawed than David. 

But while Weyland feels he can now take Davids Creation for his own gain and maybe he embraces David but has plans to dispose of David... but David manages to fool Weyland and turn the Tide.. or something where we ULTIMATELY see Synthetic Construct Weyland get Face Hugged and this is where the Xenomorph gets its Bio-Mechanical look from.

I think maybe this would be a interesting Twist....

Some may ask if Weyland knew he could do this why go to LV-223 when he can Create a Synthetic and transfer his Soul?

Maybe as i said in a earlier post, this was flawed.... and after Weyland Died someone decided to activate this Project..

Also if you could CLONE yourself, and this Clone then had up to that point all your Memories too... And this Clone is in Good Health.

While you have Cronic Cancer and weeks to Live, a part of you may think well i will live on in my clone.. but then  there would be a part of you that would steal Fear Death and the Horror of what happens next..

Even though you have a Clone with all your memories... your Life will still end... For the Clone they would have less concern for you though.

So maybe indeed a Human Peter Weyland would still have fear of death, and would maybe want to find a TRUE way to make himself Immortal from meeting the Gods.

Indeed..

I think however its possible that with every Prototype improvement Weyland would want to use these for his BOY.

I will have to look at the Weyland Website again and see what Advancements are made each model, if they are just related to AI and so fixing Bugs then maybe David could be the Original including his Body.

I am sure some advancements had to do with Psychical improvements though.

Update...

The Weyland Industries site does offer some clues but its if this is now Canon.

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David 1

Weyland manufactures the first advanced android prototype model of its kind. He is affectionately called David, a name Sir Peter Weyland had initially reserved for his own human son.

January 7, 2025

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Advanced Polyurethane Compound Patented

Weyland Industries earns patent number 9,158,239 for a chemical composition of classified properties able to almost perfectly replicate the biological features and texture of human skin.

March 22, 2026

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This seems to show that improvements to Skin Technology was made after David 1 was unveiled.

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David 2

Weyland makes significant adjustments to the David android prototype, facilitating David’s first interaction with humans. This initial meeting is very promising.

January 1, 2028

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This appears to suggest that David 2 is just a upgraded David 1

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NSF Lifts Restrictions on Androids

The National Science Foundation (NSF) lifts restrictions on the commercial use of David androids.

May 11, 2035

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This seems to imply that 7 years after the David 2 Prototype, David 2 Models had been made and had some problems.

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David 3

After android regulations are lifted, the third generation David is deployed internally in order to test human acceptance of cybernetics individuals. Results are encouraging.

June 30, 2035

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Seems to show these problems were soon rectified and  with a Model 3 they would not suffer this problems.

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David 4

David 4 becomes the first commercially available model of the David series. He is eventually expected to improve work-flow and efficiency at offices and homes across the world.

April 1, 2042

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This is when David's became more wide spread as they now enter the commercial market

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David 5

Weyland makes significant intellectual and emotional updates to the David android, further increasing human acceptance.

July 7, 2052

============

This and from now on seems to show upgrades are mainly due to behavior and emotions and the latest models become more Human and not Robot..

So indeed its quite open to instead of David having his AI transferred to new bodies.. we dont get much information about the major changes in models.

So David 1 could have had some upgrades to his physical appearance (realistic Skin) that leads to David 2 Prototype and at this point Weyland is happy to Produce more David 2's models.

I could be after the David 2, other models mainly have AI upgrades

The David 8 Marketing does suggest that David has been upgraded to perform better,

"INTRODUCING DAVID 8

He has been reimagined, reengineered and brought to life with better technological, intellectual, physical and emotional performance than ever before. Welcome to the eighth generation of cybernetic advancement. Brought to you by Weyland Industries."

This is from the Viral site... and so maybe David had some upgrades as he went along, i think as a AI if there are upgrades that are more than just the AI/Brain component then surely Peter Weyland may want his David to have these upgrades?

But then who knows with Alien Covenant if they are paying attention to any of the previous movies marketing as i think with the Franchise, each new movie sometimes ignores a lot of stuff that was set up from the previous movies... that leads to incongruity problems.

I also want to add that, on VERY long time scales, a sophisticated enough species has a very good chance of transcending their bodies. Why? Because it is simply more efficient. Efficiency is the name of the game for everything. Business, biology, you name it. Since technology grows exponentially, at one point or another, a sophisticated enough analogue of their body can and will arise. Or if that wouldn't happen, they would have wiped themselves out. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale

Hmm ... where would you put the Engineers? 

Indeed i saw this a while back....

The Question is how does Ripley come back to it?

She is someones Daughter, means the connection could be via a Parent, but then he mentions about Ripley coming back... he has in other interviews mentioned about Ripley and how they can De-Age Miss Weaver.

The Time-line will simply not add up though.

Ellen Ripley was born in 2092 and so she would be aged 12 but nearly 13 at the time of Covenant.

If she is on the Covenant and it is due to take 7.5 years to Origae-6 then it would be the year 2112 and so 10 years before Alien by the time the Covenant arrives on Origae-6

And so its a big ask to cover a 19-20 year old Ripley and then have her then get up to what ever she does to become a Warrant Officer etc and then end up on the Nostromo in less than 10 years.

RS said 2 more movies, and so maybe he means 2 more Prequels and then a 3rd movie could see Ripley, which by the Time frame of movies heading to Alien could mean that in 2 more movies time we could see a Ripley Connection more closer to the 2122 Timeline of ALIEN

How would this be? cover her just before she joins the Nostromo Crew and how do they De-Age Miss Weaver who in 2-3 movies time would be what about 75 and get her to play a Younger late 20's Ripley or the same age she was in Alien.

And then if its her Parents thats the connection.. again would her Parents leave a 10-12 year old Daughter (dont know when the Covenant left) and go off on a Colony mission that would be a 14-15 year round trip so they would never see her again for a while?

I cant buy that....

So the connection must be a Parent or Parents who leave on a Mission to maybe intercept the Covenant or head to Origae-6 in a more latter timeline where Ripley would be a Woman in her 20's doing her own thing etc.

@BigDave

To quote Richard Dawkins: "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." 

The sole purpose of life in biology is to propogate one's genes. The Engineers, therefore, evolving past the primitive "desire" to copulate with females, start to seed worlds (which are themselves, in religions, represented by femininity). In this secnario, the "space seeder" image is much more powerful than an imperfect egalitarian society that includes females (you can tell because they are much shorter than the males, which is a sign of very recent polygamy).

Anyways, anthropomorphizing the Engineers does more harm than good. If indeed they seeded life itself on Earth (which would be the ONLY way this whole thing could work-- I mean, if they share 99% genes with us, then they must also be related to bananas, moths, lions etc.) then they would be at least 3.8 billion years old. Now there's a FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM! That is simply too long of a time period for anything biological to survive. We see that they are imperfect, have emotions, crumbling cities, etc. I just don't see how all this can mesh well. Perhaps time dilation can play a special role in tackling this problem. Maybe a few minutes had passed since the Juggernaut left Paradise to bomb the hell out of Earth ... 

The problem with Ash being David is that Ash wasn't made by Weyland Yutani.

@VivisectedEngineer You're most welcome!

@BigDave I think David we know is the original, it makes sense that Weyland would keep his original creation imo.

It's mentioned by Walter in the cut scenes now too that the David we know is the original prototype and all Davids then Walters were based off the David they meet in AC.

Covenant has found a niche audience in those who appreciated the whimsical nature of Ridley Scott's vision, but it won't find a larger audience. Even the home video release is getting a second wave of backlash, with more bad reviews and a dropping score on imdb. At 6.6, soon to be on par with Alien 3.

I am sorry if i am not so accurate with Hindu Culture, its certainly something for me to look into a bit more, i think i mainly have interpreted how Some Cultures have Sexulized Females and their is a lot of Naked and Sexual depictions in the Hindu Faith as well as some being Divine, there are a lot of Divine beings with Multiple Arms and Heads and i just find the whole Hindu Culture very Artistic

And so maybe i was a bit wrong to hint maybe Hindu Cultures show Females connected to Sin/Fall... my point of this Topic is that Females seem to be very important in many Cultures and Religions in context to Man and Gods.. And not really that in Hindu Females caused Sin/Fall

I would assume you are Hindu and so it would be interesting if you have and can offer some insight into the Gods and Female connections and i am sorry if i am not quite on the mark with your Culture.

I think on the whole my point was that in many cultures Man and Gods, do seem to have a great interest in Females and Gold and in some cultures we can see these proved to be a bit of a downfall.

I just wondered if Females could be a Key subject within the context to the Franchise as it is touching on the Ancient Astronaut theory, where all the Religions and Cultures or most on Earth are just interpretations of visits from Alien Humanoid would be Gods.

Its always interesting to see which of these Cultures/Religions and Mythos the Franchise chooses to touch upon.

The Cathedral is central to the City in Covenant and i find it interesting the TWO concept works by TWO different Artist working on AC had made concepts about the Cathedral Dome and its Doors

And the Humanoids on those Entrances and the difference to the Engineers... one piece is very Biblical/Greek and the other very Sumerian

And yet Both have Females on the Doors... so at some point we have to wonder why was this? Surely Wayne Haag etc did not think... this would be cool... so we have to wonder if at some point they was asked or given material that allowed them to run with the idea that Females and none-Engineer looking ones are on such a Central and Important Buildings Doors.

I think its interesting we saw Female Engineers too, which raises a Question why Create Mankind...

Very interesting stuff! I can't blame Scott for loving his films so much, he's done really impressive work on them. I can't even begin to imagine how Ripley is going to be worked in, but I trust that it's going to be equally awesome.

Thanks for posting!

BigDave Talking about Sharknado, Covenant has quite a few cringe worthy moments, like the birth of the chestburster, a scene that according to concept artists Dane Hallett and Matt Hatton was much longer in the test screenings. That was a truly laughable moment and a stab in the heart of the xenomorph reputation as a credible monster.

What VivisectedEngineer puts is right and a great point.. if the movie had incorporated a number of things from the Novel then this would not be so much a Question.

when there is a Plot Hole or Bad Writing which this was...

Then indeed as IRaptus has mentioned we have to look at ways to give a plausible explanation and so i think what IRaptus had put could work.

Other than that its does Daniels know Walters Capabilities?  a lot of Women own Cars, and Computers (even Men so i dont see sexist) but this does not mean everyone who owns them know 100% how they work, or indeed every component and its role.

But yes this is one of the number of not so good written parts

@Nobeer

Both David and Walter have rapid healing abilities, but their not perfect. For example, Walter couldn't grow back his arm.

The novel makes it more clear that they both have the same sort of fast healing abilities - in the novel, Daniels stabs David in the eye with the nail and it rapidly heals.

The thing that made Walter's recovery from David's first attack remarkable was the fact that there was a control inside his neck in that spot that should have forced a shut-down. The update Walter referred to wasn't an improvement on healing abilities but rather the ability to recover from an unauthorized shutdown.

I think a Problem with AC, was indeed it was trying to please Alien Fans, Trying to Please Aliens Fans, trying to please Prometheus Fans but all in such a small way... it tried to give these Fans a little something..

While then throwing in something Fresh (Neomorphs) the U-Turn/Curveball David created the Xenomorph.

But in trying to please them all, it ended up disappointing them all for the a lot anyway.  I think Aliens fans can pick a few Good Points, and pick some Bad... and have some more Wants (more Xenos and a Queen maybe).   Prometheus fans can pick a few Good Points and some Bad and have more wants (more about the Engineers) and some of the more Purist Alien Fans would be left going WTF! and their Treat would be the Xenomorph on the Covenant Rushed Scenes.

Each New movie did add something a bit different but each new movie also split the fanbase up.

A quick Summary of a few of these...

ALIEN a near Flawless movie... that Aliens gave a decent sequel to, that may have spit some Alien Purist, in how it was a Popcorn Action flick but a decent one at that... that seemed to for some Alien Fans weaken the iconic Xenomorph.

ALIEN 3 continued on from Aliens, where it appeared the Xenomorph was no more and the only route to it was via Ripley as she had a Queen.. decent attempt a few raises questions (how the Eggs got to the Sulaco)

But for Alien Fans it was a bit of a return to Alien, but for Aliens fans it lacked the Action of the First Movie, for some it killed off Newt and Hicks off Screen... and then it Killed Ripley off.

ALIEN R with Alien 3 Ripley had met her End, but miss Weaver wanted to return despite wanting to be killed off in Alien 3 and so they had to come up with a interesting way to bring her back with a flawed way it would lead to a Queen... The movie really made the Xenomorphs more fodder again, the Queen was also made to be a bit dumb.. being pregnant and giving birth to a Newborn Hybrid Blah Blah..

This Split Fans again, as some Alien fans would not like it, some Aliens fans too... it kind of was not the best movie, it was not as serious as the others and touched more of a Hellboy kind of Comic book Character kind of flick...  The Beast was Ba"$%^dized 

Then came FOX who having decided not to touch the Franchise, as Alien R did get a bit of criticism, leading to a Plot where Ripley 8 would be on Earth and maybe then have to explore how the Xeno had got off the Crashed Space Station or a company used its DNA to introduce the Xeno and Ripley again but i think FOX was a bit uncertain about doing a Alien 5

And so we got the AVP movie which offered a back ground for the company and the Xeno being known for thousands of years.. while the Plot should be considered a alternative Time Line and Universe the movie was not to bad... as far as a Popcorn Flick was... it was like a Aliens meets Alien 3 meets Alien R with no Ripley.. to a degree.

But it made the Xenomorph look weak again, and while it gave us another Queen Battle since we saw Ripley vs the Queen . overall it seemed to damage the  Xenomorph a bit.. and the Predator a bit.. and seemed to show well Humans are not so much Fodder.

They should have gone for a AVP set in the Computer Games and Comics Timeline..

Then we got AVPR which had a decent follow on Plot, that was then not expanded into a good movie due to a shocking script and acting and it seemed a very much Low Budget, Cheesy Horror meets Action flick where again the Xenomorph was just Fodder..

And became Cooked..

so at this Point the Franchise Fanbase was Split they all had different likes and dislikes....  there really was not much they could do with a Alien R sequel... i guess they could have done.. but then it would just be like what AVPR had kind of done to a very poor level it had...

They could not surely do a AVP 3 even a Reboot because again AVPR had damaged that Cross-over and its a risk another movie would fail.

so the only thing left (apart from a Parallel movie set between Aliens and Alien R)  was to explore the Xenomorph Origin and Space Jockey.

This brings us to PROMTHEUS.. at first it was a more direct kind of prequel.. but FOX did like the Curveball about the Space Jockey/Engineers and decided maybe tone down the Xeno as it had been done over and over, and maybe something new would be best.

Prometheus got some bad reaction, the Plot was good and Bold, the execution flawed, but it did give something to think about it did expand the Universe... but this Split Fans, because some wanted more Xeno connections, some wished it had Xenomorphs in it... and so yes some thought this would be a Alien Prequel and expected it as much...

Then we get to Alien Covenant.. which i covered before its failings..

So yes its hard to please them all, so FOX have a hard task at hand. I think and hope they stick with RS Vision and dont crack into doing a kind of Blomkamps Alien 5

I think Alien 5 could be good, if it was done right and passed on the Torch from Ripley, i would hate to see a Alien 6, and Alien 7 with it being about Ripely.  A Alien 5 thats similar to Blomkamps that passes the Torch to Newt and sets up a Alien 6 that maybe covers other alternative Xenomorphs and Engineers i think could work.

The thing is FOX would not Fund and Back TWO movies at the same time... and IF they did or they was to appear near enough the same time..  Ridley Scott Felt his Prequels are whats more important, than resurrecting Ripley and the Queen and in doing so taking Alien 3 and Alien R from Canon.

Alien 5 had appeared to explore and touch upon some things that would conflict with things RS had planned with his Prometheus 2 and 3 and maybe how he wished to show the Xenomorph Origins and where any Engineer Technology is at the time of Aliens.

In addition... if RS made his Prometheus Sequel and Blomkamp his modified Alien 5 (remove bits that conflict) there is a risk that interest in Alien 5 could affect the Box Office Results of Prometheus 2

So logically they had to put Alien 5 on Hold.... but then after AC was in works, RS had wanted to do another 2-3 movies after Prometheus... and at least a Sequel (Alien Covenant) and then another after this... and so this would surely be a 5-6 year delay to even contemplating Alien 5 and so in effect put that movie to BED...

The Question FOX has now, is would a Alien 5 instead of a Prometheus sequel been better? maybe for $$$ but as for continuing the Story and the Franchise overall... then the Prequels had to come first.

its now after Alien Covenant, would FOX even consider leaving these Prequels alone and then do a Alien 5 to make $$$$ and get Miss Weaver in before she would be 100% too old?

If this was done and Alien 5 did not do well, then that would be Curtains for carrying on the Prequels...

So we can see why Alien 5 was canned...

The big Question now is where to they stand with Alien Covenants Sequels?  Maybe they now would feel they had to add a bit more the Original 3 movies had that AC did not and maybe add some of what Alien 5 was going to have?

@sherris

Yes, I noticed there were nods to the original novel in the A:C novel! Like the whole "One dreamer" thing. I love stuff like that!

@Lawrence of Arabia

Agreed.

@Lilly (Svanya)

:D :D :D Awesome!!! Thanks!

@BigDave

Very interesting points!

Walter may be self-healing but like us he fleshy humans may need something to keep wounds together to help the healing process.

We ourselves are somewhat self-healing but still need medical aid. I don't think it would have been anything out of the ordinary for Daniels to provide first aid to the ship synthetic.

Sorry, I can't resist, your post reminded me of this XD

@BigDave

"Many depict the Females in Lustful ways and Man having a Lustful connection.... Hindu Culture its very evident."

Would you kindly provide some examples? Are you perhaps referring to Ravana in the Ramayana or Duryodhana in the Mahabharata?

If so, I would say that these examples do not at all fit in well with your overall theme as Ravan and Duryodhan were already demoniac persons with many vices well before their respective assaults on Sita and Draupadi.

Lust did not initiate their downfall and furthermore both Sita and Draupadi were very pious women who were not in any way lustful themselves and didn't do anything to tempt Ravana or Duryodhan. Plus, Ram and the Pandavas (the rightful husbands of these victimized heroines, were pious and heroic, and not lead astray by their attachment to these women).

But anyway, without knowing if these are the instances to which you refer, it's difficult to refute or concur with your assertion.

Could you please elaborate?

Yes, that scene struck me as odd too.

"I have a feeling that the Alien franchise will become stale much like Terminator or Jaws"

As long as it does not get to be like the SHARKNADO'S LOL

Michelle some good Questions... and this is the great thing with the whole Prometheus Plot the Questions that connect to Prometheus that are not answered, not in Prometheus and those not answered in AC and those that are a bit but raise more Quesitions

The Ambiguity and scope and how we have not had no Answers, and how the Plot and Clues are mean every point you made as far as Questions.. we can come up with more than one potential answer for each point.

There was a wealth of information we have yet to uncover.. sadly its how do they fit it all in?  Even those from Covenant would need 2 movies to cover if we are also going to follow David the Covenant Ship to Oriage-6 where do we see what David does within the 7.5 years to Origae-6 or after.. and how do they then fit in 2-3 more Parties/Players coming in as well as the other which is the Engineers... its  a hard task to do this with ONE movie... but indeed its a case of will FOX want to set this up as a TWO Movie in case the next one is a Flop and they are left Hanging with a unfinished Two-Part Tie in to Alien where they cant leave it alone... but then what risk to carry on.

I think the safest choice is to unfortunately do what AC did...

Alien Covenant was a Aftermath to the Crossing Movie that never was... but we just get the Viral Short Video and Davids Flashback to cover what a Movie between Prometheus and Alien Covenant would cover.

And so i think now they have to do the same with the Next Movie, and so By-pass the whole 2105 to 2012 Timeline.. and have it where David has set up  a colony on Origae-6 with the colonist and they have part set this up... before David then goes about with his Agenda.

What happened on the Covenant from when David tucked Daniels into Cryo-sleep to when the Covenant made it and began to set up the Colony... have these as a few Flash Backs or Narrated by David.

Then have the incoming Engineers arrive at the end, we dont have to see them on Paradise and this saves money.. they could instead have a Juggernaught turn up to Davids Horror and then Walter walks down.... and then we see Engineers.

As Logically the Engineers would not know who did all that to Paradise, they would maybe know someone got to LV-223 and so they would likely be off to LV-223 and Earth... i cant see how they can find David because he is off on a Human Ship and we have to assume the Engineers arrive on Planet 4 way way after David has left, as it will take the Covenant over 7 years to Origae-6 and so if the Engineers arrive after 6 months they surely would catch David way before he gets to Origae-6

Also we dont know how far the Covenant had traveled when we see it in AC... it would be no more than 5 years away from Earth and i would say at least 18 Months as they had to make a Re-charge which is when disaster struck.

So in Space Terms the Covenant is not vastly far away and Mankind has a number of ships and so if the Engineers arrive on Planet 4 say 3, 4 or 5 years later and then go off what is to say they dont intercept other Human ships first, how would they know which ship to find.

So Logically they would have to get this information off Walter.

Also David has contacted the company, and it would take so many years i think for them to get the message so again the company would know what the Covenant was and its mission and maybe that it is heading to Origae-6 and so its Logical again the Company set off to Origae-6

The time a the company gets the message and then heads to Origae-6 if there ships are similar speed to the Covenant does then leave a Few Years after the Covenant would arrive.

So i think this makes sense.. but it may appear a bit more of a Aliens Remake...

@Michelle

Indeed i totally agree.. and i have noticed the AVPGalaxy contains a high % of Fanboys and they even dont mind Alien R and the AVP movies.

Give them a Tentpole, Popcorn Xeno + Queens and Ripley Flick and i think 40% of the AVP Galaxy site would love that.

If they continued with P2 and explored a different Plot with David and Shaw, where we would explore some of the Big themes about Creation and Rebellion and how the Xeno was just no more than what and how Gunpowder was a game changer to Mankinds Wars..  And so to step away from the Xenomorph and i think AVPGalaxy would have a 75% who would not like this.

Explore with Alien Franchise the AI being more a Key and even hint at AI actually running the company and mankind without us even being in the know... like the Matrix and again i dont think many on that site would aprove..

some would though....

red0guy@gmail.com

Your reply to Michelle hit the nail on the head.... i can see Michelles point and maybe fustration and this is the same i share and why my kind of Rant....   but you make the BIG POINT.. and that is the Modern Audience... and things have changed and indeed the Super Hero movies do seem to do well.

A lot of the current Generation of 16-25 year olds would maybe rather enjoy a Aliens and Alien R, and a bit of the AVP movies and AC compared to Alien, Alien 3 and Prometheus.
The 25-35 year olds do seem to be more inclined to Aliens

In general the 35-40 year olds may like the Apeal of Alien and Aliens and the over 40's seem to be interested more in Alien, this is in general though..

So FOX have to look at the Potential Audience and this is why AC had its problems...  if FOX made a Alien Movie that was set to be aimed only at the Alien Fans or those who liked Prometheus, then some who liked Aliens and others may not be interested so they had to try and please all these people.

But the Kicker is if every single Franchise Fan who owns the DVD's and Watches the movies say 5-10X more than the average person who has ever seen a Alien movie or knows what they are about.. and so people who take part in sites like this.

If we all went to see a Alien movie at the BOX Office and only we saw it then it would Sadly not make back its $$$$$$$ and so they have to cater for trying to get casual Alien fans and non real Alien Fans and get them to see the movie.

Hence the Marketing..

I will now add and explore that yes.... they could be going for a Bigger Picture with the AI, and maybe the AI is playing a Bigger Role behind the Scenes while Mankind is unaware.

Much like the movie the Matrix... where Mankind go about their daily lives not aware they are in a simulation and are actually be used by Machines they created that over threw and now enslaves Mankind.  And so indeed RS could be going a route where AI is running things yet Mankind does not know.

Ash seemed to be very impressed with the Xenomorph he saw it as Perfect... well the Prequels with David and how he may now have created it, could well indeed now give us more back ground to why ASH admires the Xenomorph so much.

He like David is a creation of Mankind, maybe he has some resentment towards Mankind too?  But if he knows that a Android Forerunner to his Model actually created the Xenomorph this would indeed give Ash something to be very proud of and admire.

We have to look at Davids code he gave to MUTHUR and wonder... did David make a Program when he arrived on the ship and the Code was to access it, or did MUTHER already have some Protocol built in that Davids code activated?

Another thing to consider is a theory of mine, where i feel the clues seem to show that David in AC is not the David from the Prologue... not as in the same Body... this was the first Time David was called David as he chose the Name Himself.

Looking at the Weyland Viral Marketing for Prometheus the first David Model was 2025, and so we have to assume this is where the Prologue in AC was set.

We have had 7 David Models after David 1, the Marketing for Prometheus showed us David 8 and he looks the same as the David in Prometheus.. so..

*David 8 Models are Models after the latest Craze (Die hair Blonde) that Weylands Original David had at the time.. thus David in Prometheus is the Original David and the David 8s are made in the likeness of David at around this time.

*David in Prometheus is a David 8 and is not the same David at all in the Prologue.

*The Prologue did not happen in 2025 and its not the first David.

OR... as i think, Each David Model Prototype is Weylands personal David and each New Model, Weyland uploads the Memories and Experiences of the previous personal David Prototype to the next one... So David 1P had his Soul  if you would uploaded to David 2P, then David 3P and so on and so on.

This in effect makes David Immortal, and also it kind of gives him a SOUL which Fassbender did ponder in a Interview... and when we look out our Soul, what gives us a Soul, is it our Spirit? Does our Spirit inhabit our Body and this stores out Personality, Emotions and Experiences?  Or are these just imprinted and programed into our Brain?

If we suffer a head injury or some diseases, we can loose our Memory... if someone completely loses everything so they are in their Body and have say 35 years of Memories but then their Brain is completely wiped Blank... so they have to learn everything as if they was a New Born Baby.... if this Person was found and there was no connection or way to find any relatives or where they came from, or any photos etc...  then the Person they was prior to the Memory loss would be completely different person.

So if our Soul is then the imprints of our experiences, memories knowledge passed on Stored in our Brains...

Then WHY cant Androids have a Soul? if our Souls are the same in this case?

This is where i think Weyland had been doing this for a Agenda... he does not want to die, he wishes to play GOD, he creates David and thinks he is as a God, i think Weyland was trying to Perfect the Android David, and Perfect some Memory Transfers Model to Model so that when Weyland has Mastered Both, and if he can then UPLOAD his Own Memories, Experiences and thus SOUL into  a AI Program/Storage and then Upload this to a Android then WEYLAND would have conquered Death and become IMMORTAL.

I think this is something that could be explored... its what i would and what i was going to do when i was working on my P2 and P3 drafts 3 years ago and i still think after seeing AC that this can apply more than ever...  If Weyland had attempted this but it Failed.. it was flawed and could never work... the AI Weyland has flaws or goes a bit MAD... this would then mean a very Old Weyland now had no other hope of Cheating Death than to take Dr Shaw and Holloway up on their discovery and hope that they are right and meeting his Maker Weyland could maybe get the extra Life he wanted.

If the Background i gave above is explored it could get us asking and show us that a Androids Memories can be Stored and Transferred.. to a New Body, but a Humans while it can be uploaded to a AI it can never really work out and so proving that WE CANT Transfer our Soul... which could get us to ponder if this is because our Souls are more than just Memories and we are not just Biological Machines.

And so if this was the case... maybe on record there is still the Weyland AI Stored, and what if this then gets released into the AI and unknown to the Company we have Weylands AI attempting to Pull the Strings much like the movie Transcendence? 

I think this would be INTERESTING.

The zeno  is NOT cooked. If fox would have kept the original ending and killed Ripley they would have had a great franchise. The slow methodical movements of the alien itself and look of it were incredible and still cannot be beat. Aliens was a disappointment when it came out and I was 12 when it came out. The plot of Ripley going back was stupid. I think that plot was chosen to show off the fight scene at the end. Also stupid. The queen looked ridiculous. Hudson would not shut up. The rubber suits looked bad. And the same 2 idiots continued the alien design flaw thru 4. I can totally rip apart the stupid character decisions that were made during Aliens like trolls like to say about AC. Like the fact that even though marines sat through the "meeting" the 1 still climbs on the ship after noticing the "slime". The list goes on. Continue with the prequels and reboot with the alien and queen floating in space. Remember Cameron established that the aliens can breath in space. You know, the queen hitched a ride. NO MORE RIPLEY!!!! NO BLOMKAMP!!!!!

I am not sure.. maybe who knows..

I do think RS is now every interested in the whole AI angle.. i think it may even be a KEY theme he is exploring, RS finds it very interesting we find out that David created the Xenomorph, RS feels this is a more terrible idea than the Engineers doing it.

To a degree he is correct, Prometheus started to explore the themes of Creation and Creator creates and their creation then shows signs of Rebellion and seeing themselves as not in-superior to their creator of even asking why should they serve their creators... and so a Rebellion happens...

It touches upon the Son wishing to Oust the Father, the Prince wishing to overthrow the King etc...

And the Hubris that creation involves,  in hindsight the Engineers creation of Mankind leads to their undoing, first (well maybe first) in the attempt to create the Bio-Weapon to use on us, that back fires... and kills most on LV-223 off

Mankind are thus saved, and they then create David who in a Hubris to the Engineers end up being able to use Engineers Technology and learn their ways and language and leads to those on Planet 4 being destroyed...

Had the Engineers not created Mankind, we would not have created David 8 and so they would not have needed to make that Weapon on LV-223 and they would never had seen David get his hands on that Weapon to use on Planet 4

The Engineers intended a Weapon to Destroy is that they could not contain or control and could be infected by..

Failing to destroy us leads to us creating David who is able to use the Engineers Weapon and attempt to Perfect it and lead to destruction on one of the Engineers World... David has managed to Master what the Engineers could not due to the risks and dangers.

But Mankind is not off the Hook, because their own Creation now intends to use the Weapon that Mankinds Creators had intended to use on Mankind... against Mankind itself.

Or so it would seem... so indeed the AI aspect is interesting.

Indeed they did a better job with Prometheus to hide the eyelashes or attempt to, they are near impossible to see with the last Engineer but can just about be seen with the Sacrificial one.

The Concept work with those people with Hair is very interesting as far as on the Doors to the Cathedral...

Again there is none in AC, but the concept work is interesting

One seems to match Biblical/Greek and the other seems to match Sumerian as far as the Humanoids with Hair/Beards and how they appear.

So it really is interesting WHY these Concepts are like this and we have to ask, why did they have these and why was they changed.

Again a source i had 2.5 years ago gave me a bunch of ambiguous clues, a number of these seemed to highlight that the Engineers are Creations and they had a Hierarchy who they rebelled against.  The Engineers are more connected to David 

Mankind as of now is 4th/5th Generation and not the first and Paradise was the Cradle of Creation... and Mankind had more to do with the Xenomorph than the Engineers.

I did not quite know what to make of their comments... but looking at those Concept Works.... does kind of get me wondering if the Real Gods, were Actually related to Mankind and they created the Engineers who then overthrow them and this earlier Human Race had created the Xenomorph or the Event that kick started it all as a punishment to those Engineers?

The Source Sadly will no long cough up any information.

Totally get what your saying Gavin ;)

You would assume FOX would be like well these sites have some interesting ideas.. and draw a short list of say i dont know 3-5 user they like be they from here, AVP Galaxy or Youtube or what ever and then contact them.

Then its a case of if we would think it was spam... i mean if we have a member join and then say "hi my name is Robert Hickman and i work for FOX, we are interesting in you ideas" blah blah blah and then give you a way to contact them.. you would be thinking is this Legit?

But i know some people who worked on the movie do watch this place and can message people on here... but i ant giving any names away ;)

But indeed people connected to the Production and FOX do check on these sites...

I best not put my name in the hat though.... i dont want to take RS Job ;)  joke.. but then more chance RS would be around and able to give a better job than me at the rate i am doing lol

As long as we get the Prequels sorted within 5 years i am happy lol

Fans complained about how Stupid Prometheus seemed and the route it was taking... so now RS/FOX have given us that David creates the Xenomorph and that now its either a Human, Synthetic or maybe still a Engineer that becomes the Space Jockey and looking at the Time Frame...

The Space Jockey is now 5-10 years old in Alien and not thousands.

I actually disagree... in a respectful way... everything that was good with Spaights Draft was carried over to Prometheus only it needed another writer to then tidy up Lindeloffs Draft

You see here are the Problems with Spaights draft...

*Watts  (Shaw) became to much of a Bad-ass who become a Heroine more than Ripely and Sarah Conner, it sucked that she basically killed most of the Aliens off herself... the last Scene was rather daft.

*Holloway was more Naive than Shaw in Prometheus with even more Religious Faith.

But the biggest problem was the way it ended and being on LV-426 and how it was explained, simply left a lot of Plot Holes to Alien.. it simply did not add up...  Apart from tease the Engineer could be the Space Jockey.

But the Signal would not have added up, and we have those Pyramids that let off Signals, and then in Alien and Aliens there is no evidence of the Magellan or the Temples or the Pyramids or the Dead Humans and Aliens etc.

Prometheus made more sense to move it to LV-223 and simply hint it was connected to LV-426... we see the Engineer in Prometheus was fine but the other Cryo-Pods had Chest Buster Holes.. so it was more Logical another Ship with the Space Jockey suffered the same fate, but they had also got into Cryo-sleep but was also infected.

They then awoke a few hundred years latter and went to resume the mission but only left LV-426 when they realized they was infected and then Quarantined the Cargo on LV-426 then have the Chest Buster be responsible for those Eggs.

RS had also hinted to such a fate... Here is prior to AC what RS had said about the Space Jockey.

*The event happened within a few hundred years of the outbreak on LV-223 that wiped out those Engineers.

*The Space Jockey was heading to a undisclosed location but he did not get far.  (hints that his journey was not far thus LV-223 ==>LV-426).

*The Space Jockey got infected by his Cargo and set down a course to LV-426

*The Derelict did not Crash, it was intended to land there.

*The Pilot was Chest Busted during the landing procedure.

Ridley Scott latter and again well prior to Alien Covenant, added that the Space Jockey had got infected by his Cargo, something had EVOLVED in the Cargo and infected him.

Very nice, i'll feature this awhile.

I agree, to a degree, that "Alien" required no prequel. No movie ever does...except those that have a fanbase that wants to know more. And "Alien" fans are those people. We DID want to know. We all were clamoring for the "why" about that big ol' "Star Beast Big Chap". Now, we might not be happy with the answers we have received, but who ever is? I am still going to my grave never believing that "David" the AI is the ultimate XX121 "creator". I will NEVER buy that...ever. No matter what they show me on film.

So, yes...A:C is "weak"...that I agree. But, it's still a wonderful movie; however, had the Prometheus story been told in the right way...right Director? I don't know...then we could've/would've had a fantastic "beginning" that everyone would've been interested in. Now, we simply have a confusing mesh of ideas from varying scriptwriters and a Movie House wanting "More Xeno" in order to try and push up the bottom line. None of that is "wrong", but the story...if there ever was one...has certainly suffered, IMHO.

Can it be saved? Yes, it can be. But the director is the LAST person that is to have that much effect on it. The writers and the movie house are going to be the final dictators of that.

Seph7 updated with the latest reviews

So Ridley stated that Artificial Intelligence is the real enemy, it is so cool to see David's inner thinking and what he did to Shaw was "CRAY'. I feel that David is thee best Movie Villain in the history of Movies period. No one has his ambitions. I love this new life given to the story

Precisely. Gratuitous, computer generated gore like the one in Covenant is not interesting nor entertaining. Provide suspense and an intelligent script and the masses will flock to see the next movie.

Lawrence of Arabia

The Alien franchise needs saving from some of their fans. They do not grasp what Alien is but instead want cheap scares and action with no subtext unless it's full of hope. Alien has always been an nihilistic art film, it's a thinking man movie, and Covenant embraces that. 

Absolutely agreed. I'm tired of the gore-seekers... That's not entertainment.

It would have been interesting to see Oram say more... And it seemed odd to have David be so happy to see his creation born, only to watch passively as Daniels kills it later on...

What I noticed about Prometheus and Covenant, is that both the stories and the viral campaign have become too whimsical and self referential; honestly, I have my doubts Ridley Scott takes the material very seriously, and he doesn't seem interested in moving away from formula. As the video suggests: new movies in the franchise should be faithful to the original in spirit, and they don't even have to be set on a starship or have the same type of characters.

I believe Ash could be David as well considering his mannerisms and the way he speaks.

I would have liked to have the Oram chest-bursting scene extended. Oram's response when he awakens is chilling and when David is trying to teach the Xenomorph would have been beautiful.

The Alien franchise needs saving from some of their fans. They do not grasp what Alien is but instead want cheap scares and action with no subtext unless it's full of hope. Alien has always been an nihilistic art film, it's a thinking man movie, and Covenant embraces that. 

Michelle Johnston

1) What was LV223 and its relation to Paradise.

2) Where do the Engineers fit in to the hierarchy and what is the significance of the tear drop ship and the acolyte.

3) Most importantly why did they want to kill us if they created us. That was the huge set up of Prometheus.

4) What do the artefacts in the headroom mean .

5) How was the Alien Pathogen created and how does it link in with the life giving catalyser that the acolyte ingested.

6) Why did the Engineers suffer a fall and begin their own sub creation.

7) Who is the Engineer in the headroom.

Once we arrive at Paradise.

1) What is the relationship between the inhabitants of Paradise who appear different to the Engineers of LV223 why ?

2) What is the significance of the Plaza, the docking vehicle and why were they open to David 's juggernaut what were they expecting.

3) What did David "find out" on his journey to Paradise.

4) What happened and when did he wake Elizabeth.

5) What is the significance of the holo message and what were the circumstances of its recording.

6) How much of what David offered Walter as explanation was the unreliable narrator. ADF indicates that Walter deduced the ship did not crash it presumably crashed when Elizabeth tried to get away.

I understood your stance perfectly. However, I disagree about the muddled plot. It was not a perfect movie, but why should it be? And, why should we be given all the answers when there is another movie or two to come?

In answer to your points, I think we did get answers to some -

1) We already know that LV-223 was a military installation for the Engineers. As Janek said, they aren't stupid enough to keep the Pathogen on their homeworld/s

2) We only saw a two minute clip of the teardrop dock/ship, so I'm not sure we were ever going to get an answer. Theories will likely be rife until the next film.

3) An answer we would have gotten, had David not killed them all on Planet 4. It is an answer we may still get in the next film. As David said to Shaw at the end of Prometheus "The answer is irrelevant", so we were never going to find out from him. He didn't care.

4) Do you mean the Ampules?

5) I have a feeling they are the same thing. As David says, "to create, one must first destroy". That's what the Pathogen does. It breaks down the existing DNA and rewrites it based upon the host and the surrounding environment.

6) Do you mean the bodies found in the ship in Prometheus? I always thought they'd let the Pathogen get loose...

7) The decapitated one? Perhaps he was no one... An Engineer equivalent of a low ranking private?

Planet 4

1) I have feeling we'll find out in the next film, if we do indeed see Engineers arrive there to see what happened. I have a personal theory that it was a colony of theirs...

2) They likely couldn't see David, so why would they be suspicious to one of their own ships?

3) I'll admit, this is also something I would like to know... Perhaps he learned that they were very much like humans, and was disappointed...

4) Something I would like to know too... Perhaps if Walter is revived/awakens, he will be able to discover what exactly was done to her...

5) I doubt she knew she was being recorded. My theory is David did it secretly, knowing exactly what he was going to do with it, knowing that it would tempt someone to come looking for it.

6) I think David flew it into the forest deliberately, once he'd taken care of the Engineers, just the right amount to cause some damage, but nothing monumental. I would imagine that once Walter realised that he had been lied to in regards to Shaw's demise and resting place once he'd found her mutilated body, he quickly realised that David had engineered everything.

The Alien is a biomechanoid as Giger and Ridley envisioned it. The pathogen itself is a form of radical A.I..