Indestructible Engineer Vessel

Page 100% exists - its a PDF document from NASA. I have it open in my browser at the moment

Enderwiggin, you can't debate someone who won't recognize any sources but their own . I suggest you give up. Snorkel, I suggest you use that big IQ of yours to publish your thesis in a scientific journal and then use it to show the world you are right. Can we end the debate now? P.S The page exists I opened it also. You may need to upgrade your acrobat reader or just wait for the page to load jeez.

Yes debate ended - I hope no offense was taken. I respect your opinion Snork - I'll see you in another thread.

Not taking sides here - just wanted to ask Snorkel if he has a specific link detailing the specific affects of gravity on the mechanism of an atomic clock. Having trouble finding articles that shed doubt on the viability of using atomic clocks in space for gravity experiments (well, they're making newer and better ones for upcoming experiments, but still.) Just curious.

@ Ta2punk - I had noticed that, yet every time I put the effort in to explain the errors and mistakes of whatever was thrown at me, I would either get a link to another "theory" or accused of "copy and paste". @ Biomechanic - Hows things, I am very much in the process of doing exactly that, having recently registered with Nature and collecting all information available from many sources. @ enderwiggin - This all started when I pointed out the mistake in the original post were you stated "FTL, which means time travel", which is a theory, and impossible to prove. Then disputing Black Holes, then Time Dilation. I argued my case (as i argue all my cases) with my brain, not my ability to use google and wi, wik, wiki (I can't bring myself to say it). like I said before Logic and Observation always beat Theory. The last post I made clearly shows that what the scientists proved is different to what they think they've proved. If no offense was intended, then none is taken. @ Manndroid - Hows things, strangely enough the proof that time dilation doesn't exist is in the very link enderwiggin posted. Read the evidence the scientists say proves their theory, apply logic and the laws of physics (gravity, velocity, friction etc.) and you can see plain as day they have proved what I said in my last post, not time dilation.

@Snorkel - I understand where you are getting the idea - lack of gravitational pull affects the mechanisms of the clock - but in this case, the clock is an atomic clock - using the oscillation of sub-atomic particles, which is why they are deemed so accurate. Not immune to gravity, but more accurate than a more massive mechanism. However, I do not know the specific effects on the atomic clock due to gravity - the actual data. Mostly because I am pretty sure someone would have thought of this already, and looked for an equation to compensate. I'd like to read information that supports your side, but without knowing the mathematics involved with the intricacies of the clock itself, I can't speculate in favor - or at least, know the degree of error as it pertains to time dilation.

That's it Manndroid.... You stated "Mostly because I am pretty sure someone would have thought of this already, and looked for an equation to compensate." They have no equation to compensate for the gravitational effects on atomic clocks, too many variables. So they take the easier but more labourish method and instead adjust the clocks when the difference becomes a problem. Atomic clocks are accurate, but only when the gravity is at 1.0. Reduce/Increase the gravity and the accuracy is affected. The strength of the gravity is the key factor here.

Right. I wanted to see what that adjustment [i]is,[/i] not just know that there is one. S'why I asked if you had any readily available online sources. Still not taking any sides, just being academically responsible.

The adjustment varies depending upon the height in which a satellite orbits the Earth. in most cases it just a case of synchronising it with a clock on the ground at the press of a button - a simplified example/analogy would behow you would make sure your watch and alarm clock are the same time.

@ Manndroid if you are looking for an academic perspective, let me give you a quick description of time dilation and its effects on satellites. The closer you get to the speed of light the slower clocks tick. Now important note! - the particular clock doesn't matter a damn, the clock is there to describe "The passage of time" it can be an atomic clock, an alarm clock or a egg timer!! It has nothing to do with gravity affecting friction of the mechanics of a clock! Thats hilarious! The satellite that is orbiting the Earth is moving at great speed RELATIVE to stationary clocks on the surface. This causes time to pass slower then the stationary clocks and results in a delay of about 7 μs/day. If you have twins and you send one off on the Prometheus @ 99% C this person will age much slower then the person left on Earth. When the ship returns say 50 Earth years later with the astronaut twin, he will hardly have aged at all while the Earth twin will be an old man - no clocks need be mentioned. Snork this is not directed at you - we have already agreed to disagree. I am merely describing my understanding of time dilation as a courtesy to Manndroid.

Fair enough Enderwiggin but the statements you make are flawed... "It has nothing to do with gravity affecting friction of the mechanics of a clock!" - so reduced gravity, thus reduced weight, reduced drag, reduced resistance allowing higher velocity is incorrect, not the last time I checked. "The satellite that is orbiting the Earth is moving at great speed RELATIVE to stationary clocks on the surface. This causes time to pass slower" - so why in the test that supposedly proves time dilation were the clocks going faster, not slower. "If you have twins and you send one off on the Prometheus @ 99% C this person will age much slower then the person left on Earth." - According to what exactly, near-light speed travel across long distances supposedly slowing down time? show me proof, a working equation. I do love your loyalty to the establishment Enderwiggin but you are overlooking one important thing, the scientific community itself its turning on these old theories and ideas, because they break logic and observations.