Does AVP count as accurate to Prometheus

Anthology definition a complete set of works from an author/ authors. A completion from start to finish of writing /art/ poems etc . Funny but my aliens anthology has 2 discs missing avp and avp requiem.

The whole problem with the AVP question is that it has completely confused the issue with respect to the ORIGINAL intent of the 1979 movie... and there are countless younger people out there who think the 2 alien races are intertwined and part of each others story! THEY HAVE EVEN SAT THROUGH A SHOWING OF ALIEN cuz its too boring for their "sensibilities"... I know may young idiots who would never even take the time to LOOK AT ANYTHING MADE before 1985 (Hell, 1990 for that matter!!) They have the freaking attention span of squirrels. The AVP movies have taken away virtually ANY mystery the Xeno may have had and completely reduced it to nothing more than a mindless piece of cannon fodder that was bred by an intergalactic version of a Hillbilly hunter looking to get its kicks by killing and stuffing something for his trophy wall. The Xeno has been turned into a complete joke... Even with the Ressurection movie as well... just awful. I am not in the least bit surprised that Ridley Scott has made a very conscious effort to try to distance Prometheus from the Xenomorph. Its like he said it..."They are just NOT SCARY anymore". Better to let the Prometheus story act a launching pad for a whole NEW chapter of stories from the "original" Universe, yet be completely stand alone in most respects. Hell, this is probably a situation where a STAR TREK style of "reboot" so to speak can serve the ALIEN mythos well.

@ Sparky... Firstly - WOAH with the hate, not only are we fellow staff members but I thought we were mates. Secondly - I have seen and own all 9 of the films. AVPR is one of the worst films ever made, granted, but not because of its ideas, but for a million and one other reasons (cast, SFX, music, directors, script, location, character choice, etc.). If you can look past that then you realise that all AVPR was trying to do was to wrap up the loopholes left behind by the first AVP, which could have been an awesome film but they made the same mistakes. Thirdly - Temples has nothing to do with. The temples on LV-223 are in no way related to the pyramid under Bouvet Island, their origins, purpose and construction are completely different. Finally - Rather than getting angry and arguing, debate. This is a forum not a mud pool.

@ altered state - its also missing Prometheus!?!

Damn im going to have to fork out yet again when they complete this.

snorky why do you feel this is personal? there is NO HATE FOR YOU I LOVE YOU TO DEATH AND YOU KNOW THIS "STAFF" HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT...their is ONLY MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF HATE FOR THIS IDEA YOU AND A LOT OF OTHERS HAVE NOT LET GO OF FOR YEARS AND I WILL FIGHT YOU ON IT FOREVER, TILL I DIE, THEY DON'T BELONG GO WATCH THEM AGAIN, 2ND ONE IS A DISGRACE FIRST ONE IS A BLAST AND REAL FUN TO WATCH BUT HAS A QUEEN ALIEN IN IT APPARENTLY WHO COMES TO LIFE OUT OF A FROZEN CRIOGENIC STATE WITH OUT ANY CONTANIER AT ALL JUST HANGING ON A HOOK FOR WHAT I AM SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE IS OVER 100 YEARS INA TEMPLE 200O FEET BELOW THE ARCTIC. THATS RIGHT SNORKY, 2000 FEET BELOW IT !!!

@ Sparky - just checking, sometimes you do get you knickers in a twist, don't you, lol. Let me put it this way... If the first film had been made to the strengths of the respective franchises, with a respectable director, strong cast, concrete script etc. and if the second had followed suit, and if the right directions had been taken to ensure the minimal amount of offence (such as no egg-barfing, no pred-alien etc.) there is a chance that the films would have been a critical and commercial success. And furthermore, aside from some fans this argument would be mute, as most fans, had the idea been handled respectably would consider it canon. But, because we got an action/adventure film followed by a teen slasher with all the mistakes they could make we have hatred towards the idea of them being canon. The story, the beats work... as for the rest (directing, acting, script, approach etc.) is utter... well excrement.

you also know how i will go off at the mere mention of it lol....but seriosuly I am sorry If I was/am just too emotional about it all but this comes up every 6 months and I can't live with myself if I do not stand up for Dan O'Bannon's integrity which I think is the issue here, along with Ridley's , the issue is he never would have accepted that 2nd film, the first one maybe, but the 2nd one he not only wouldn't have accepted he would have been very very angry, especially about the "Ellen and Dallas" part.

Necrofan's 'Alien Canon: 1.Alien 2. Aliens You'd have to make a case to me that 3 and 4 should be considered relevant. I know you guys have discussed it to death. I've seen all the films, even the bad ones. But there comes a point, when trying to establish a solid, respectable canon for a film's accepted reality, that you have to stop including all sequels and spin-offs because they are ideas and films made by entirely different writers, producers, and directors than the original Alien movie. At best, it's fan-fiction. Not canon.

In my opinion, the films diverge in continuity after the 'Queen Alien' scene in Aliens. I've said this before. Neither RS nor Giger ever considered the original Alien to be like a giant insect. Its life cycle and reproductive methods were speculated to be far more unfathomable than that.

Thats just it, O'Bannon was a co writer on the first AVP, and the second was just a way to tie up the loose ends of the first. Don't judge the book by it's cover! Also I have heard some fans say that the AVP films should have been done like the comics/games... if they had it would have been even worse... because we would have ended up with another starship poopers. What we got wasn't perfect, but it was better than what we would have got had we got we wanted.

there are people that say canon includes even the comics too, all of it, which IMO is rediculous. I am ALL for creativity, but NOT at the expense of credibility.

What we have here is a failure to communicate. There are those who view the Predator movies and such as fun B movies with cheesy acting, horrible dialogue, cheesy everything and either like them as such or not (I thought the first and second were fun). And view Alien as a B-movie only at the surface, with the possibility to go into more profound territory. And have been waiting for decades for it to do so. In either case, in no way should the series be joined. It is like having a movie where Jason takes on Jack Torrance from The Shining. Or combining Doritos with with a filet mignon. Nothing wrong with doritos. But they just ain't fine dining. Fanboys and girls can rationalize ie retrofit ANYthing to fit and make sense. And that is not an insult. But it is a fact. Others, like me, do not want to retrofit anything like Predator to Alien. And if Scott or anyone else does something in a film that is just plain stupid, I for one will say, "LAME!" and not worry over how I can fit it into precious canon.

comics are never canon, they are extended universe, or sanctioned fan fiction. Canon is anything created within the same universe represented in the same format as the source material. for example - the forthcoming Dark Knight Rises isn't canon, but Batman Year One is. Ergo AVP and AVPR are canon (because there is no official word otherwise), whereas the comics, games, novels, toys etc. are not.

ya know this argument is 10 years old at least so I have to add, after thinking about it from the point of view of those that even Want this, I realized something NEW just now... If we do this, does that mean the Xenomorph was orignally a BEACHBALL because if we do by those high and lofty STANDARDS... [b]STARBEAST would be CANON.[/b]

How does that mean that Starbeast is Canon, it's not even in the same universe.

My point is that no one seems to care about the living thread of any film in the franchise, that is it's content and how it would fit within that universe, A practice I wish, no I am certain Poor Dan would have wanted and needed to live long enough to put a STOP to. the second I saw the kid from "That 70's show" and then realised..."what, that other guy...his name is DAllAS, the guy from "Rescue Me"...he's Dallas now...and she is...whaaat..."Ellen"...she's whaaaaat...a Marine...whaaaaat....?....we 're looking at Pizza delivery guys in Earth...whaaaaat?....why is the Creature from the end of Resurrection coming into my head ALL OF THE SUDDEN AND WHATS GOING ON IN PARIS RIGHT NOW WHILE ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING...whaaaaaaat....?....wait a second, the ship that dropped the Predators off that we have been tracking all through the first AVP film just dropped off some more predators but Whaaaaaattt...all of the sudden their ships delivery system is completely different than it was in the first film...whaaaat....? I could go on forever...They Have No Credibility...By the Standard everyone has been using for this STARBEAST would belong in here too because it was the start of all of this so I could rationalize it's part of the franchise and therefore "Canon"

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet: Alien and Predator are mostly linked because of the skull from Predator 2(God Gary Bussey you suck!)

starbeast - different characters, universe etc. thus not canon. yeah the characters where lame, is the Alien/Predator franchise any different - Jerry "The Lone Ranger" Lambert. The delivery system was different in predator 2 than in predator, and again in predators. Is Alien Rez a good film, hell no, but its canon.

Because of that single scene in Pred2(which is no longer canon due to Predators), fans have been tearing at each other for years on this topic. The first AVP, even with all its errors in canon and plotholes, was still entertaining and fun to watch as an action film; but it's meant to be watched as a stand alone. The second one? I grew up a second head by the end of the movie.

I have to say "tutelo" when "Snorky" first mentioned/asked me to go back and do a study with him on both films AVP we/I learned many new things and the best one was I completely admit... That first AVP film, despite my own personal opinion on it being Canon or not was WILDLY entertaining to watch and I told Snorky at the time, and it;s all in a thread here somewhere, that I thought the "Flying Vaginas" scene might just be the single greatest few seconds ever filmed in all 6 films!!! I loved the First AVP film. That is...absolutely Loved watching it and Love that queen at the end. Now that Prometheus involves a bunch of company people and one or a couple of poor ol' Droids meeting to find out these things on earth have led us to a discovery of another temple is just to g-d d****d similar to allow me to take it all as "Canon". But Snorky can give you some good arguments why it should be, I just agree to disagree, if it had a completely different plot with no temple I might agree. But the similaritites IMO are a statement form Scott directly to FOX saying Loud and Clear, this was and is still is Dan and My Puppy, no mater what the three of you {Giller, Hill, I forget the other just now} think or ever do!

Sorry Snorky, but I have to blow a hole in a major part of your argument there....Dan O'Bannon did NOT co-write AVP....... This is from an online conversation....[url=http://z8.invisionfree.com/MHVF/ar/t1164.htm]AVP: Why are O'Bannon and Shusett credited...[/url]....that references Fangoria #239 on the subject... "Dan O'Bannon discusses this in Fangoria#239. "What happened in the case of "Alien vs Predator" was complex", he says of this issue and essentially he suggests that a lot of unfilmed parts of his first screenplay were ransacked and they went for arbitration. It's an interesting and candid article." "Thanks Victor, I'll have to check that out. I do recall reading interviews with Paul Anderson where he discussed that the whole pyramid idea came from the early O'Bannon/Shusett drafts of ALIEN, so that's probably where a lot of that stemmed from." There you have it...O'Bannon DID NOT have anything direct to do with AVP.....Anderson was forced to credit O'Bannon and Shusett for that reason......... Honestly, AVP is nothing more than a studio cash grab monster mash up like Freddie v.s. Jason. Just because some studio shlub decides he can wring the last vestiges of profit from the wet towel remnants of an idea, doesn't make it cannon. Hell, I Love the first two Dark Horse runs of 'AVP'...loved them, but never thought the universes were actually worth crossing and because someone in a studio office decided it was a good idea to line his or her pockets does not make it canon or even a good sideshow...... Also, there are plenty of examples where sequels are completely ignored as canon due to inferior quality and a lack of involvement by writers or directors of the original work.......'Psycho', 'Halloween', 'Jaws'.....all have a slew of sequels that no one pays much attention to for those reasons....heck, 'Halloween 2' was written by Carpenter, but beyond that none of it really matters......AVP, notice I don't even it give it the respect of qoutation marks, is cheap exercise in fanboy fun run amok with studio dollars and little sense....Canon it is NOT......

An aside to what Spartacus said......AVP is a little entertaining, but I can't stomach the notion of these two universes being combined for the reasons I've stated....

somtimes it pays off to be an avid reader. lol.

"Flying Vaginas"...I never thought of them that way, but I concur, specially since I saw that scene yesterday.

[quote]"Flying Vaginas"...I never thought of them that way, but I concur, specially since I saw that scene yesterday.[/quote] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Me neither...'Till I went back and watched it all again, and a few times over at that, and Snorky then said to me this was how it is typically referred to...LOL.

Here is an dan o bannon interview that may shed some light for some of you...[url=http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/7576/the_den_of_geek_interview_dan_obannon.html]Your text to link here...[/url]

Ya know after reading all that, I realised I had read it before, and this is why I am so cocky about it all...Incredible how the truth always floats to the top. That Poor man, O'Bannon, the disgusting way he was treated even on the set of the first film, but in everyone's defense by that time he was off the deep end and out of control over the growing pain of having to hand over his baby to others to dissect and destroy and cut up.

Snork!! to to pile on you bro but had the whole thing with AVP been done proper and I do mean with a better director than that hack Anderson (Hate that guy) and a story that more closely resemble that of the first comic, perhaps things would have turn differently.

Thanks so much alteredstate.....here's an excerpt that's most relevant to the conversation.... [b]Are you nervous to see the Alien, essentially your baby, evolve into storylines that are further and further away from the original universe you created?[/b] Well, I’m not nervous about it anymore. I’ve gone through the annoyance at making these silly sequels, so I didn’t really care anymore. [b]Did you have any more input into AvP2: Requiem than just your credit as having created the alien character?[/b] No, no. You’ve got to understand that Walter Hill and David Giler, who have been attached to the project from the beginning, they hate my guts. Because they’re scoundrels. They thought that by pulling a couple of fast ones that they could steal my screenplay credit from the original Alien. [b]This is where they rewrote the names of the characters in your original script?[/b] Yeah. They should have had enough experience themselves to know that that wouldn’t work, because they both had a couple of studio pictures already in their background, and they were both Writer’s Guild members, and they had been through arbitrations. The arbitrations standards are pretty clear, and they should have realised that no minor changes were gonna get them – certainly not the sole screenplay credit, which they expected, and in fact they ended up getting no screenplay credit. I don’t know – villains think as villains think; y’know – they’re stupid. When they failed to get that credit they both just flipped their lids. They’d already targeted me as a victim, meaning that I was ‘not a friend’. And then when the victim ended up not being victimised, they were just furious, just beside themselves. Walter Hill spent several years telling everybody who would listen, any journalist that he’d really written Alien and I stole his credit, until I finally got fed up and had my lawyer shut him up for good. So no, they were not about to have me involved in any of those sequels. They’re only interested in the money with those sequels, anyway. These are not artistic fellows. [b]Did you even see the first Alien Vs. Predator film[/b]? Yeah, sure, I saw it. [b]What did you think of it?[/b] Videogame. I did have an idea that they didn’t use, and that was that the alien in his next phase turns into the predator. But they weren’t interested in hearing from me…at least it would have had some continuity between the two ideas. [b]Where would you like to see the next Alien film head? Perhaps back to the more high-budget universe that you---[/b] I’d like to see it stop. A horror movie’s a fragile thing, and once you’ve gotten past the original, it isn’t scary anymore. So you do a bunch of sequels to a horror movie, all they do is drain any remaining impact out of the original. All of the sequels to for instance Invasion Of The Bodysnatchers, same thing; they over-expose the ideas, and when you look at the original, it’s not as effective as it would have been if you had just left it alone. But money makes the world go round and Hill and Giler saw that as the best way to make more money without having to do any work. So as producers with an in at Fox, they just continue to shove those things through. [b]So as far as you’re concerned the Alien franchise is pretty much played out now?[/b] It was played out after the first one, as far as I’m concerned. Cameron, in the first one, did about the only thing you could do, which was that he changed to a different genre, from a horror movie to an action film. But once he had done that, there really was nothing left to do. And they just keep squeezing the thing till it’s an empty bag. But as long as it keeps bringing in money to them, they’ll keep doing it. Gordon Carroll was the only decent one among the producers. He had a falling out with them over Alien and they stopped liking him too, and he passed away a couple of years ago.