Does AVP count as accurate to Prometheus

BUT, there I go again, simply poking holes in your theory without offering solid evidence for my counter-argument so your theory still stands!

@ thefacehead - I suggest you watch the scene again in Predator 2, Keyes even mentions where they had been tracking the Predators. Also the same organisation appears in AVPR. yeah, granted the films are terrible, but that doesn't make them any less valid, the beats, the themes involved are valid, and the films are a means of combining the two original franchise into one large franchise, which despite being terrible films, they do achieve.

You're going to get lots of resistance from old school fans on that one, some of which may have never seen AVP. Trying to blend the two films into one big super-franchise, I would consider to be one big STUDIO-FINANCED decision, done to make more money. Not done in the best interest of the original 'Alien' and 'Predator' films, which are both modern sci-fi classics. Its kind of like trying to combine the Mona Lisa with The Last Supper into one big super-painting that everyone would pay to see. All that does is defile both pieces of work. Both classics. Able to stand alone.

Of course it makes them less valid, like Batman and Robin lol. I haven't seen P2 for ages but I thought they were just tracking them while they were on Earth, like he says he has been tracking it's movements and he goes to the abattoir every other day to feed. I don't think he means that he's been tracking the Predator around the universe???

When i was little i used to like the old repeats of early horror movies like dracula, frankenstein and the wolf man. But, after seeing the crossover films, even as a little boy, i couldnt watch a dracula or wolf man film again and enjoy it. I think i was 10. Same with aliens and predators, if the xeno was to be a major part of this film i wouldnt watch it. as far as i'm concerned the execs killed off the xenos far better than a billion Ripleys ever could.

In Predator 2 Keyes states that his group (O.W.L.F.) have been tracking the Predators all over the world, he mentions various countries including Beruit, before stating that the Predators are attracted to Heat and Conflict for their human hunts. As I said before Dan O'Bannon, whom wrote Alien was also a co-writer on AVP, and Dan is just as much responsible for the Alien than Ridley is. Also Prometheus doesn't have to reference the AVP's to make them canon (although the marketing already has done so with weylandindustries.com), Alien Rez made no reference to LV-426, which no doubt survived the destruction of Hadley's Hope unscathed. Like I said, and keep saying - the films are terrible, but what lies beneath the production choices, casting, acting etc. does not taint the original franchises, if anything it strengthens them.

sorry, we talkied abouyt this Snorky... There is NO way On earth I ever count AVP...BOTH films, as CANON, to do that is to destroy the credibility of this franchise!!! and Ridley has said only ONE Thing so far on the matter ever and refuses to address it any further...Canon = Alien 1 and 2 , 3 & 4. Both AVP films are an Insult to this franchise, a complete and utter insult !!! They were made in Haste by a frustrated studio to generate income and had nothing to do with any concern for CANON. And on the Case of AVP 1 and 2 which I dissected top to bottom there are so many mistakes with respect to "canon" that this old conversation really isn't even worth having anymore, both films even considering both of them, DEMEAN the entire idea of "Canon" In the Alien Universe. and the 2nd one AVP Requiem...IS a FRIKKING DISGRACE TO THE ART OF film making and especially to this FRANCHISE. WITH... BOTH... IT'S "ELLEN" AND IT'S "DALLAS"..... I'D EVEN VENTURE TO SAY IT WAS MADE NOT AS CANON FOR[b] ALIEN[/b] BUT IN A BLATANT DELIBERATE OR COMPLETELY RETARDED AND NEGLIGENT ATTEMPT TO DESTROY THE LEGACY OF THAT FILM. LASTLY I WANT TO ADD THAT IF DAN O'BANNON WERE ALIVE TODAY HE WOULD BE SCREAMING IS ASS OFF AT HOW THAT 2ND FILM WAS MADE AND PRESENTED AND NEVER EVER FOR 1 MINUTE WOULD HAVE ACCEPTED IT IN ANY WAY AS ANY TYPE OF "CANON".

Funny Sparky I seem to remember proving to you that the the canon-ality of the AVP's was justified, and that you agreed, even if in your personal opinion you disliked the idea.

Well said Sparty.

[b]EDIT: WHAT I SAID IS YOU ARE RIGHT IN THAT IT CAN BE DONE AND JT HAS NOT NEGATIVIELY IMPACTED THE CURRENT TIMELINE OR HAS IT BREACHED IT AS I ORIGINALY THOUGHT... BUT IS A GOD AWEFUL IDEA AND YOU MUST KNOW THIS!!! NO EFFORT AT ALL SHOULD BE MADE TO DO IT IMO AND I HAVE TO THINK YOURS AS WELL.[/b] YOU KNOW SNORKY, i AM TIRED OF THIS B.S. HAVE YOU EVER EVEN WATCHED THE 2ND FILM, BECAUSE I AM BEGGINING TO THINK YOU HAVE NOT? IT IS AN INSULT TO THIS FRANCHISE AND TO THE ART OF FILM MAKING IN GENERAL...PERIOD...ANY ONE THAT EVEN WANTS FOR THIS IS DOING A GREAT DISS SERVICE TO EVERYTHING THAT FILM, AND THIS FRANCHISE THE FIRST ONE ALIEN, AND THE ALIEN FRANCHISE HAVE STOOD FOR AND STILL DO...35 YEARS LATER. AND NOW YOU KNOW WHY I SAID...IF RIDLEY SCOTT ADDRESSES THE TEMPLE IDEA IT COMPLETELY DESTROYS THE AVP FRANCHISE AS CANON, AND HE DELIBERATELY DID THIS...THERE CANNOT ALL OF THE SUDDEN BE TWO seperate STORYLINES both involving temples!!! You may be able to twist it all you like to make it work Snorky but with each attempt All you are doing is attempting to water down and sully the credibility of this franchise. and lastly aside from all of that, all of my directed anger at you FOR YOUR ATTITUDE ABOUT ALL THIS...there is this...ANYONE THAT HAS SEEN BOTH FILMS AND EVEN WANTS EITHER OF THEM TO COUNT...IMO DOESN'T GIVE A RATTS ASS ABOUT The franchise at large...THE LOGICAL MIND ALWAYS DEDUCES THIS IS 100% IMPOSSiBLE WIth BOTH OF THESE FILMS. They both lack substance and credibilty and are more of an insult to it than anything else.

Anthology definition a complete set of works from an author/ authors. A completion from start to finish of writing /art/ poems etc . Funny but my aliens anthology has 2 discs missing avp and avp requiem.

The whole problem with the AVP question is that it has completely confused the issue with respect to the ORIGINAL intent of the 1979 movie... and there are countless younger people out there who think the 2 alien races are intertwined and part of each others story! THEY HAVE EVEN SAT THROUGH A SHOWING OF ALIEN cuz its too boring for their "sensibilities"... I know may young idiots who would never even take the time to LOOK AT ANYTHING MADE before 1985 (Hell, 1990 for that matter!!) They have the freaking attention span of squirrels. The AVP movies have taken away virtually ANY mystery the Xeno may have had and completely reduced it to nothing more than a mindless piece of cannon fodder that was bred by an intergalactic version of a Hillbilly hunter looking to get its kicks by killing and stuffing something for his trophy wall. The Xeno has been turned into a complete joke... Even with the Ressurection movie as well... just awful. I am not in the least bit surprised that Ridley Scott has made a very conscious effort to try to distance Prometheus from the Xenomorph. Its like he said it..."They are just NOT SCARY anymore". Better to let the Prometheus story act a launching pad for a whole NEW chapter of stories from the "original" Universe, yet be completely stand alone in most respects. Hell, this is probably a situation where a STAR TREK style of "reboot" so to speak can serve the ALIEN mythos well.

@ Sparky... Firstly - WOAH with the hate, not only are we fellow staff members but I thought we were mates. Secondly - I have seen and own all 9 of the films. AVPR is one of the worst films ever made, granted, but not because of its ideas, but for a million and one other reasons (cast, SFX, music, directors, script, location, character choice, etc.). If you can look past that then you realise that all AVPR was trying to do was to wrap up the loopholes left behind by the first AVP, which could have been an awesome film but they made the same mistakes. Thirdly - Temples has nothing to do with. The temples on LV-223 are in no way related to the pyramid under Bouvet Island, their origins, purpose and construction are completely different. Finally - Rather than getting angry and arguing, debate. This is a forum not a mud pool.

@ altered state - its also missing Prometheus!?!

Damn im going to have to fork out yet again when they complete this.

snorky why do you feel this is personal? there is NO HATE FOR YOU I LOVE YOU TO DEATH AND YOU KNOW THIS "STAFF" HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT...their is ONLY MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF HATE FOR THIS IDEA YOU AND A LOT OF OTHERS HAVE NOT LET GO OF FOR YEARS AND I WILL FIGHT YOU ON IT FOREVER, TILL I DIE, THEY DON'T BELONG GO WATCH THEM AGAIN, 2ND ONE IS A DISGRACE FIRST ONE IS A BLAST AND REAL FUN TO WATCH BUT HAS A QUEEN ALIEN IN IT APPARENTLY WHO COMES TO LIFE OUT OF A FROZEN CRIOGENIC STATE WITH OUT ANY CONTANIER AT ALL JUST HANGING ON A HOOK FOR WHAT I AM SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE IS OVER 100 YEARS INA TEMPLE 200O FEET BELOW THE ARCTIC. THATS RIGHT SNORKY, 2000 FEET BELOW IT !!!

@ Sparky - just checking, sometimes you do get you knickers in a twist, don't you, lol. Let me put it this way... If the first film had been made to the strengths of the respective franchises, with a respectable director, strong cast, concrete script etc. and if the second had followed suit, and if the right directions had been taken to ensure the minimal amount of offence (such as no egg-barfing, no pred-alien etc.) there is a chance that the films would have been a critical and commercial success. And furthermore, aside from some fans this argument would be mute, as most fans, had the idea been handled respectably would consider it canon. But, because we got an action/adventure film followed by a teen slasher with all the mistakes they could make we have hatred towards the idea of them being canon. The story, the beats work... as for the rest (directing, acting, script, approach etc.) is utter... well excrement.

you also know how i will go off at the mere mention of it lol....but seriosuly I am sorry If I was/am just too emotional about it all but this comes up every 6 months and I can't live with myself if I do not stand up for Dan O'Bannon's integrity which I think is the issue here, along with Ridley's , the issue is he never would have accepted that 2nd film, the first one maybe, but the 2nd one he not only wouldn't have accepted he would have been very very angry, especially about the "Ellen and Dallas" part.

Necrofan's 'Alien Canon: 1.Alien 2. Aliens You'd have to make a case to me that 3 and 4 should be considered relevant. I know you guys have discussed it to death. I've seen all the films, even the bad ones. But there comes a point, when trying to establish a solid, respectable canon for a film's accepted reality, that you have to stop including all sequels and spin-offs because they are ideas and films made by entirely different writers, producers, and directors than the original Alien movie. At best, it's fan-fiction. Not canon.

In my opinion, the films diverge in continuity after the 'Queen Alien' scene in Aliens. I've said this before. Neither RS nor Giger ever considered the original Alien to be like a giant insect. Its life cycle and reproductive methods were speculated to be far more unfathomable than that.