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Does AVP count as accurate to Prometheus

ALEXCoftheCHAMILLITARY

MemberOvomorphApril 21, 20125342 Views121 Replies
Aliens take place in the future so did the battles between predators and the aliens really happen in this universe?
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Gavin
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Thats just it, O'Bannon was a co writer on the first AVP, and the second was just a way to tie up the loose ends of the first. Don't judge the book by it's cover! Also I have heard some fans say that the AVP films should have been done like the comics/games... if they had it would have been even worse... because we would have ended up with another starship poopers. What we got wasn't perfect, but it was better than what we would have got had we got we wanted.

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Spartacus
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there are people that say canon includes even the comics too, all of it, which IMO is rediculous. I am ALL for creativity, but NOT at the expense of credibility.
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dallas!dallas!
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What we have here is a failure to communicate. There are those who view the Predator movies and such as fun B movies with cheesy acting, horrible dialogue, cheesy everything and either like them as such or not (I thought the first and second were fun). And view Alien as a B-movie only at the surface, with the possibility to go into more profound territory. And have been waiting for decades for it to do so. In either case, in no way should the series be joined. It is like having a movie where Jason takes on Jack Torrance from The Shining. Or combining Doritos with with a filet mignon. Nothing wrong with doritos. But they just ain't fine dining. Fanboys and girls can rationalize ie retrofit ANYthing to fit and make sense. And that is not an insult. But it is a fact. Others, like me, do not want to retrofit anything like Predator to Alien. And if Scott or anyone else does something in a film that is just plain stupid, I for one will say, "LAME!" and not worry over how I can fit it into precious canon.
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Gavin
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comics are never canon, they are extended universe, or sanctioned fan fiction. Canon is anything created within the same universe represented in the same format as the source material. for example - the forthcoming Dark Knight Rises isn't canon, but Batman Year One is. Ergo AVP and AVPR are canon (because there is no official word otherwise), whereas the comics, games, novels, toys etc. are not.

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Spartacus
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ya know this argument is 10 years old at least so I have to add, after thinking about it from the point of view of those that even Want this, I realized something NEW just now... If we do this, does that mean the Xenomorph was orignally a BEACHBALL because if we do by those high and lofty STANDARDS... [b]STARBEAST would be CANON.[/b]
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Gavin
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How does that mean that Starbeast is Canon, it's not even in the same universe.

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Spartacus
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My point is that no one seems to care about the living thread of any film in the franchise, that is it's content and how it would fit within that universe, A practice I wish, no I am certain Poor Dan would have wanted and needed to live long enough to put a STOP to. the second I saw the kid from "That 70's show" and then realised..."what, that other guy...his name is DAllAS, the guy from "Rescue Me"...he's Dallas now...and she is...whaaat..."Ellen"...she's whaaaaat...a Marine...whaaaaat....?....we 're looking at Pizza delivery guys in Earth...whaaaaat?....why is the Creature from the end of Resurrection coming into my head ALL OF THE SUDDEN AND WHATS GOING ON IN PARIS RIGHT NOW WHILE ALL OF THIS IS HAPPENING...whaaaaaaat....?....wait a second, the ship that dropped the Predators off that we have been tracking all through the first AVP film just dropped off some more predators but Whaaaaaattt...all of the sudden their ships delivery system is completely different than it was in the first film...whaaaat....? I could go on forever...They Have No Credibility...By the Standard everyone has been using for this STARBEAST would belong in here too because it was the start of all of this so I could rationalize it's part of the franchise and therefore "Canon"
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vaderraider
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet: Alien and Predator are mostly linked because of the skull from Predator 2(God Gary Bussey you suck!)
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Gavin
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starbeast - different characters, universe etc. thus not canon. yeah the characters where lame, is the Alien/Predator franchise any different - Jerry "The Lone Ranger" Lambert. The delivery system was different in predator 2 than in predator, and again in predators. Is Alien Rez a good film, hell no, but its canon.

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tutelo
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Because of that single scene in Pred2(which is no longer canon due to Predators), fans have been tearing at each other for years on this topic. The first AVP, even with all its errors in canon and plotholes, was still entertaining and fun to watch as an action film; but it's meant to be watched as a stand alone. The second one? I grew up a second head by the end of the movie.
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Spartacus
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I have to say "tutelo" when "Snorky" first mentioned/asked me to go back and do a study with him on both films AVP we/I learned many new things and the best one was I completely admit... That first AVP film, despite my own personal opinion on it being Canon or not was WILDLY entertaining to watch and I told Snorky at the time, and it;s all in a thread here somewhere, that I thought the "Flying Vaginas" scene might just be the single greatest few seconds ever filmed in all 6 films!!! I loved the First AVP film. That is...absolutely Loved watching it and Love that queen at the end. Now that Prometheus involves a bunch of company people and one or a couple of poor ol' Droids meeting to find out these things on earth have led us to a discovery of another temple is just to g-d d****d similar to allow me to take it all as "Canon". But Snorky can give you some good arguments why it should be, I just agree to disagree, if it had a completely different plot with no temple I might agree. But the similaritites IMO are a statement form Scott directly to FOX saying Loud and Clear, this was and is still is Dan and My Puppy, no mater what the three of you {Giller, Hill, I forget the other just now} think or ever do!
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craigamore
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Sorry Snorky, but I have to blow a hole in a major part of your argument there....Dan O'Bannon did NOT co-write AVP....... This is from an online conversation....[url=http://z8.invisionfree.com/MHVF/ar/t1164.htm]AVP: Why are O'Bannon and Shusett credited...[/url]....that references Fangoria #239 on the subject... "Dan O'Bannon discusses this in Fangoria#239. "What happened in the case of "Alien vs Predator" was complex", he says of this issue and essentially he suggests that a lot of unfilmed parts of his first screenplay were ransacked and they went for arbitration. It's an interesting and candid article." "Thanks Victor, I'll have to check that out. I do recall reading interviews with Paul Anderson where he discussed that the whole pyramid idea came from the early O'Bannon/Shusett drafts of ALIEN, so that's probably where a lot of that stemmed from." There you have it...O'Bannon DID NOT have anything direct to do with AVP.....Anderson was forced to credit O'Bannon and Shusett for that reason......... Honestly, AVP is nothing more than a studio cash grab monster mash up like Freddie v.s. Jason. Just because some studio shlub decides he can wring the last vestiges of profit from the wet towel remnants of an idea, doesn't make it cannon. Hell, I Love the first two Dark Horse runs of 'AVP'...loved them, but never thought the universes were actually worth crossing and because someone in a studio office decided it was a good idea to line his or her pockets does not make it canon or even a good sideshow...... Also, there are plenty of examples where sequels are completely ignored as canon due to inferior quality and a lack of involvement by writers or directors of the original work.......'Psycho', 'Halloween', 'Jaws'.....all have a slew of sequels that no one pays much attention to for those reasons....heck, 'Halloween 2' was written by Carpenter, but beyond that none of it really matters......AVP, notice I don't even it give it the respect of qoutation marks, is cheap exercise in fanboy fun run amok with studio dollars and little sense....Canon it is NOT......
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craigamore
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An aside to what Spartacus said......AVP is a little entertaining, but I can't stomach the notion of these two universes being combined for the reasons I've stated....
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Spartacus
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somtimes it pays off to be an avid reader. lol.
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tutelo
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"Flying Vaginas"...I never thought of them that way, but I concur, specially since I saw that scene yesterday.
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Spartacus
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[quote]"Flying Vaginas"...I never thought of them that way, but I concur, specially since I saw that scene yesterday.[/quote] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Me neither...'Till I went back and watched it all again, and a few times over at that, and Snorky then said to me this was how it is typically referred to...LOL.
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alteredstate.
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Here is an dan o bannon interview that may shed some light for some of you...[url=http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/7576/the_den_of_geek_interview_dan_obannon.html]Your text to link here...[/url]
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Spartacus
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Ya know after reading all that, I realised I had read it before, and this is why I am so cocky about it all...Incredible how the truth always floats to the top. That Poor man, O'Bannon, the disgusting way he was treated even on the set of the first film, but in everyone's defense by that time he was off the deep end and out of control over the growing pain of having to hand over his baby to others to dissect and destroy and cut up.
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Xenophobia
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Snork!! to to pile on you bro but had the whole thing with AVP been done proper and I do mean with a better director than that hack Anderson (Hate that guy) and a story that more closely resemble that of the first comic, perhaps things would have turn differently.
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craigamore
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Thanks so much alteredstate.....here's an excerpt that's most relevant to the conversation.... [b]Are you nervous to see the Alien, essentially your baby, evolve into storylines that are further and further away from the original universe you created?[/b] Well, I’m not nervous about it anymore. I’ve gone through the annoyance at making these silly sequels, so I didn’t really care anymore. [b]Did you have any more input into AvP2: Requiem than just your credit as having created the alien character?[/b] No, no. You’ve got to understand that Walter Hill and David Giler, who have been attached to the project from the beginning, they hate my guts. Because they’re scoundrels. They thought that by pulling a couple of fast ones that they could steal my screenplay credit from the original Alien. [b]This is where they rewrote the names of the characters in your original script?[/b] Yeah. They should have had enough experience themselves to know that that wouldn’t work, because they both had a couple of studio pictures already in their background, and they were both Writer’s Guild members, and they had been through arbitrations. The arbitrations standards are pretty clear, and they should have realised that no minor changes were gonna get them – certainly not the sole screenplay credit, which they expected, and in fact they ended up getting no screenplay credit. I don’t know – villains think as villains think; y’know – they’re stupid. When they failed to get that credit they both just flipped their lids. They’d already targeted me as a victim, meaning that I was ‘not a friend’. And then when the victim ended up not being victimised, they were just furious, just beside themselves. Walter Hill spent several years telling everybody who would listen, any journalist that he’d really written Alien and I stole his credit, until I finally got fed up and had my lawyer shut him up for good. So no, they were not about to have me involved in any of those sequels. They’re only interested in the money with those sequels, anyway. These are not artistic fellows. [b]Did you even see the first Alien Vs. Predator film[/b]? Yeah, sure, I saw it. [b]What did you think of it?[/b] Videogame. I did have an idea that they didn’t use, and that was that the alien in his next phase turns into the predator. But they weren’t interested in hearing from me…at least it would have had some continuity between the two ideas. [b]Where would you like to see the next Alien film head? Perhaps back to the more high-budget universe that you---[/b] I’d like to see it stop. A horror movie’s a fragile thing, and once you’ve gotten past the original, it isn’t scary anymore. So you do a bunch of sequels to a horror movie, all they do is drain any remaining impact out of the original. All of the sequels to for instance Invasion Of The Bodysnatchers, same thing; they over-expose the ideas, and when you look at the original, it’s not as effective as it would have been if you had just left it alone. But money makes the world go round and Hill and Giler saw that as the best way to make more money without having to do any work. So as producers with an in at Fox, they just continue to shove those things through. [b]So as far as you’re concerned the Alien franchise is pretty much played out now?[/b] It was played out after the first one, as far as I’m concerned. Cameron, in the first one, did about the only thing you could do, which was that he changed to a different genre, from a horror movie to an action film. But once he had done that, there really was nothing left to do. And they just keep squeezing the thing till it’s an empty bag. But as long as it keeps bringing in money to them, they’ll keep doing it. Gordon Carroll was the only decent one among the producers. He had a falling out with them over Alien and they stopped liking him too, and he passed away a couple of years ago.

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