Forum Topic
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteJun-06-2012 3:42 PMTo understand the Secrets of the the contents of the urns/ampules we first have to separate them into their component parts...
[Edited 02-12-2012]
[u]The Seed[/u]
[img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheusE_screencap7.jpg[/img]
A genetically engineered substance created by the Engineers, it is stored within the vials found within the urns/ampules.
This thick, viscous black liquid which was consumed by the Sacrificial Engineer (the Seeding) and unwittingly by Holloway, has three underlining properties:
1. When ingested by an organism (Sacrficial Engineer/Hollway) the "Seed" combines with the cells of the organism, causing the host organism to break down at a cellular level - every cell of their body becoming a viral genetic mutagen, capable of being consumed by other organisms.
2. This viral genetic mutagen, when ingested by other organisms, adds/replaces genes of that organism with those of the host whom consumed the "Seed", imprinting the hosts DNA/Genome onto an indigenous ecosystem. This viral genetic mutagen also acts as an evolutionary accelerant, exponentially mutating organisms with the genetic template/traits from the host (LV-223 worms).
3. The evolutionary accelerant aspect of the mutagen also has the side effect of revitalizing dead/dying cells, seeming resulting in re-animation (Shaws womb/Fifield).
[u]The Black Liquid[/u]
[img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheus_screencap47.jpg[/img]
The black slimy liquid stored within the urns/ampules is NOT the same substance that was stored within the vials, and contrary to my original theoryis NOT the genetic material of the Xenomorph. This substance is an inert transmission medium, that when combined with the Seed creates an oil like substance, making weaponized transmission of the Seed more effective.
[u]The Urns/Ampules[/u]
[img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheusK_screencap31.jpg[/img]
The urns/ampules are medium for storing and deploying both the "Seed" and the transmission medium. When triggered/smashed the "Seed" (see above) and the transmission medium mix, creating an oil like substance, that is more viscous than the Seed, and a more effective means of transmission.
[u]The Xenomorph[/u]
[img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheus_screencap49.jpg[/img]
As shown by this mural, the xenomorph is of some importance to the Engineers. Lets look at their known history regards the Xenomorph...
- Thousands of years ago, an Engineer craft carrying a cargo of Xenomorph was forced to land on the moon/planetoid LV-426 when its lone pilot unwillingly became host to one of its cargo.
It may be that this craft had previosly visited LV-223 and acquired a payload of the urns before deploying them onto a distant planet. Then after acquiring the eggs that would have remained after the infestation befell its fate upon its return either to LV-223 or the Engineers home world/system.
- 2000 years ago, a team of Engineers stationed on LV-223 prepared to deploy a cargo of urns/ampules to Earth, when one of them inadvertantly unleashed the contents quarantining the base.
As seen in the movie, the urns are the viral deployment method used to instigate a Xenomorph infestation. The urns were designed to ensure safe transport and efficient deployment of the Xenomorph.
[u]The Dark Truth - Completely Rethought[/u]
Taking what we have learnt about the urns/ampules, their contents and the Engineers established history with the xenomorph, and combining that with what we have seen in the Prometheus and Alien movies, leads us towards a dark, disturbing truth...
[b]Phase 1 - The Seeding[/b]
[img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/sacrificial_engineer_prometheus2.jpg[/img]
[b]The Engineers visit primordial planets supporting basic, simple life, whereupon a lone "Sacrificial Engineer" ingests the "Seed", sacrificed his life and seeding the planet with the seed and his DNA, resulting in an ecosystem entirely dominated by the Xenomorph (This is what we see at the start of the film).[/b]
[b]Phase 2 - The Rebirth[/b]
[b]An ecosystem dominated by the Xenomorph results in the exhausting of viable hosts. To combat this the Xenomorph at a genetic level introduced Y chromosome into its genome, giving rise to infertile males (smooth carapaced warriors), and then fertile males (Kings).[/b]
[b]Upon consummating with Kings, Queens become capable of producing a second type of egg, incubating a sub-species of hosts, pale skinned humanoids - Engineers.[/b]
[b]Phase 3 - The Harvest[/b]
[img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/david_earth.jpg[/img]
[b]Systematically a percentage of these Engineers are drafted into Engineer society. Seeking a more efficient means of reproducing the Engineers weaponize the Seed, for deployment upon worlds inhabited by Engineer children, sired before the weaponization of the Seed (the method of this siring not yet seen).[/b]
[b]The Xenomorph DNA, hidden with "human DNA" asserts itself and spreads across the sired planets, resulting in a Xenomorph dominated ecosystem. Once all viable hosts are exhausted, the King Xenomorph is sired and Engineers are born.[/b]
[b]Phase 3 - Collection[/b]
[img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/AlienInfestedWorld.jpg[/img]
[b]The Engineers collect a percentage of Xenomorph (eggs) before transporting them to a location whereby they can be used to produce more Seed (also as yet unseen).[/b]
[u]Why Create Only To Destroy[/u]
[b]Here's a summary of what we know so far...[/b]
[b][/b]
[b]- A Sacrificial Engineer sacrifices his life, seeding life upon a primordial world, using his own genetic material. To date we the fans have assumed this action, through natural selection and engineering, resulted in billions of clones/children of the Engineer to evolve, in his image - us.[/b]
[b]But The consumption of the Seed by Holloway results in the creation of a Xenomorph in the form of the Deacon, therefore we must assume our initial belief to be false - meaning that the Sacrificial Engineer was not siring a planet of life that would evolve into human form, but instead cultivating a world that would be dominated by the Xenomorph.[/b]
[b]- The Urns show that the urns are a means to deploy the Xenomorph amongst human races also sired by Engineers, as shown by the DNA match in the movie.[/b]
[b]- The Xenomorph extrapolates genetic material from its hosts, propagating its own kind.[/b]
[b]- Once all hosts are exhausted, the Xenomorphs would need a means to continue their existence, otherwise they would die, and only their eggs would remain.[/b]
[b]- The Engineers return to gather the eggs.[/b]
[b][/b]
[b]WHY? Why would the Engineers seed a planet to create millions/billions of clones/children in their image and using their own DNA only to later wipe them out using the Xenomorph? Well I believe I may have the answer...[/b]
[b][/b]
[b]The Xenomorph, as we know it, is capable of eradicating an entire ecosystem of its indigenous population by using said life forms as hosts to propagate its own species. When gestating inside a host, Xenomorph embryos extrapolate genetic material and traits from their host, to add to their own genome and to adapt to the environment and ecosystem which they have been deployed into. It is this trait of the Xenomorph I believe that holds the key...[/b]
[u]Genetic Material[/u]
[img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/prometheusO_screencap14.jpg[/img]
[b]We, the human race have evolved from and continue to evolve from the Engineers genetic material. Our genetic material, our genome is almost identical to that of the Engineers. This same genetic material is extrapolated by the Xenomorph, a deadly genetic and bio-mechanical creation held in some regard by the Engineers, themselves expertics in genetic and bio-mechanical engineering.[/b]
[b][/b]
[b][i]To the Engineers the human race are "Maize". Once we have grown to required amount in number and in the required way, we are harvested, and the Xenomorph is the "Harvester".[/i][/b]
[b][/b]
[b]Our genes/DNA/Genome/genetic material is the "Maize", that is what the Engineers want/need, and the Xenomorph is the means by which to harvest our genetic material. But why?[/b]
318 Replies
BigDave
MemberDeaconAug-14-2012 6:32 AM@chainsawsquirrel
Ridley has in a collection of statements said what the Derelict on LV 426 was doing there.
1) The Derelict ship had a mission to transport a Cargo of Xeno Eggs to a unspecified destination.
2) The ship did not travel far before the Cargo somehow (he never says how) becomes compromised.
3) The Pilot somehow (again does not say where he was on the ship) gets infected by the Organism... he thus gets Face Hugged.
4) The Pilot then realizes he has been infected and knows the inevitable and he plots a course to land the Derelict ship and sets up a Warning Beacon to then warn/tell his fellow Race that his mission could not be completed as planed because the cargo is compromised.
5) During the Emergency landing the Pilot gets Chest Busted.
6) Ridley has gone further to suggest the ship was leaving LV 223 and its mission occurred 200 years prior to the event that had wiped out all but one Engineer on LV 223. So thats 2200 years.
As far as the Black Goo, again look at what we know the substance in the Urns mutates the infected Organism and changes it into a Hybrid Organism that maintains some traits of its original form but it improves certain traits and it also carries traits of the Xeno Organism. (well its DNA).
The Sacrificial Engineer we are being leaned towards as far as the story goes, breaks down his DNA and molecular structure and this resulting material then some how either goes on to become the building blocks off all life, or it comes into contact with life already on the planet (could be any stage from simply to complex we dont know) and then mutates these lifeforms to then take on traits of the Engineer.... thats why Humans have Engineer DNA.
I say this because the planet already had plant life now plants need CO2 and organisms and biological matter can produce CO2 in a number of ways. Including lifeforms bi product of there respiratory system. This plants then take on CO2 and produce Oxygen for the life forms to then breath and then exhale more CO2 etc.
The combination of above leads me to think that the Sacrificial Engineer took a substance that broke down his DNA and mutated some form of life thats already on the planet.
And that the Xenos was given the same substance to break down their DNA but store the resulting substance into the Urns, and the substance in these urns mutates life that it comes into contact with to take on Xeno DNA just as the Engineers DNA did so in the water.
Again this is just a idea i have and is by no means 100% FACT as we do not have all the FACTs of how the Black Stuff works, how and when it was created and its relation to the Substance the Sacrificial Engineer had taken.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
MemberDeaconAug-14-2012 7:02 AM@Snorkelbottom
I read the entire original post and some good ideas.
Yes i could buy that the Ampules contain the Seed, and that surrounding this is the black substance that contains Xeno DNA/Material. And when mixed they then produce a chemical that mutates the Organism to take on Xeno traits.
The Seed element breaks down the targets DNA and then it is joined back together with the Black Substance Xeno DNA.
But i found a few holes to that theory...
Holloway is only given the seed in that case and how come through sex with Shaw can he then produce a off spring that has traits of a Face Hugger that then goes onto implant a Embryo in the Engineer and thus then result in the Deacon Chest Buster... how does this work if the Seed contains no Xeno DNA?
Also we see the Black substance effects Organisms in different ways, they all become hybrids that are a mix of their own DNA and a Xenos... there was a 3 way process that lead to anything that remotely resembled a Xeno.
This was Holloways infected Sperm, that then fertilised a defecive Shaws Egg to produce a Organism that had many traits of a Face Hugger.
This Face Hugger then implanted its embryo into the Engineer which then resulted in a Deacon Xeno Chest Buster that had DNA of Human, Xeno and Engineer.
How do we know for sure that the Black Substance would mutate Humans into Xenos or something that would then create Eggs?
And surely the Xeno is deadly and can destroy the Engineers with ease, surely there is a more easy way to extract Human DNA so they can prolong their race than a far winded series of events that in the end result in collecting Xeno Eggs which we know are hard to contain and move without resulting in the release of a Face Hugger.
And how do the extract the Human DNA from the Eggs? How to they then remove Human DNA from Xeno DNA?
Why wait thousands of years for us to populate to then unleash the Black Substance to then change a Population of Billions into Eggs....
Thats a dangerous task for the Engineers to then collect so many Eggs.
would they not be better off to kidnap Humans as and when required?
And surely then use the Seed to break down their DNA to then use to procreate their Species?
That is why i believe that the Xeno was used as a Bio Weapon but one that was hard to contain and control, and they then decided to break down the Xeno DNA and store it in those Urns as opposed to have to store Cargo holds of Xeno Eggs.
It appears the only way the Bio Weapon is activated is when it either reaches a certain temperature and/or comes into contact with some kind of atmospheric changes maybe triggered by the respiratory system of proximity lifeforms.
Thats why i feel the urns only started leaking once the crew had taken off their helmets and affected the conditions inside the Ampule/Urn Room.
Thats why the Engineers need the Space Jockey Suit, as it not only protects them from the Black Substance but it also protects the climate and atmosphere of the Room so as that it does not activate or affect the Urns.
I mean the Engineer managed to get to the Lifeboat from his Crashed ship maybe without his Space Jockey suit? And the inside of the temple and Juggernaut had breathable air.
so i think the suits are Bio Suits.
Humans who work with genetic experiments or even when working on micro circuits such as CPU creation process they wear Bio Suits to protect their experiments from contamination.
Also Ridley hinted that these Engineers created us, visited us, upgraded us and taught us stuff only to then give up on us and want us wiped out.
Because mankind had become corrupt and evil and they sent down a emissary and we crucified him and that was the last straw.
The biggest plot hole to that is when David said in order to create you must sometimes destroy.... which can back up your view that mankind was going to be infected with the Black Stuff to create a new Organism but why.
We did not get any of those answers in Prometheus.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 8:52 AM@ BigDave "...or it comes into contact with life already on the planet (could be any stage from simply to complex we dont know) and then mutates these lifeforms to then take on traits of the Engineer.... thats why Humans have Engineer DNA."
sorry but i'm ruling this out here man. If you read what i wrote properly, for the engineer's DNA, it can not just "mutate" the DNA of another living organism by its self, and it can't even get into the cell by its self either. (if you can't be bothered with the huge, long explanation, then skip the next paragraph).
For that, the right enzymes would be required to break into the cell membrane, and also DNA can not get in or out of the nucleus either since it's too big to get in through the nuclear pores. It would also then have to have an enzyme which i can't name to break off part off part of/a whole gene in the DNA and another enzyme which i can't name to make the covalent bonds on the sugar-phosphate back bone of the sequence between the engineer's sequence of DNA which has to fit perfectly into the gap (so it has to be the right number oof nucleotides long) in order to then mutate the DNA. Then again, to get an organism to be even remotely closely related to an engineer as humans are, you'd need pretty much all of the DNA from the engineer INTACT inside a nucleus, and a cell to host it's self in. Even then, the cell has to then be able to take on amino acids, sugars and lipids from somewhere, and where the fuck are they gonna come from? the water fall? it then needs a stimulus to reproduce somehow and clone it's self. for that it'd need a growth hormone. Where's one of those gonna come from? oh yes, the engineer that got completely destroyed on a molecular level. There's just no chance of all that crap happening dude, sorry.
now bare these things in mind. considering that the engineer's DNA was almost completely destroyed and is thus no longer engineer DNA, but random nucleotides and short chains of nucleotides, the chances of them replicating and eventually evolving into even a single celled organism are very small, let alone (by pure co-incedence) evolve into animals such as humans. it's just too much of a long shot. Now, what i think the liquid which the "sacrificial engineer" drank was a first draft and making the black liquid or genetic modification 'stuff', but it failed. The enzymes used to cut out the engineers genes so that they may be replaced by the xenomorph genes fucked up. They were uncontrolled and cut up ALL of the engineer's DNA into random nucleotides and short chains of nucleotide, thus completely destroying the DNA. Secondly, the cells must have broke down due to autolysis which was triggered by the enzymes used to break a gap in the phospholipid bilayer (cell membrane) in order to enable the xenomorph DNA and gene splicing enzymes into the cell+an enzyme for breaking down part of the nuclear envelope to let in the xeno DNA and splicing enzymes. The autolysis would have been triggered by the enzyme used to break into the cell membrane because the enzymes in lysosomes inside the cells are also contained by a phospho-lipid bilayer. Thus, enzymes (of all kinds) inside the lysosomes would be released in each cell by the enzyme that breaks down the phospholipid bilayer in order to get into the cell. This would ultimately lead to the cell being almost entirely destroyed by all the enzymes contained with in the lysosomes, hence why the engineer completely desintergrated. so the "sacrificial engineer" was merely a lab rat according to my theory.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 8:55 AMoh, i forgot to add, this ofcourse doesn't just apply to one cell, but every cell that took on the substance of the liquid the engineer drank at the start of the film.
geopap
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 9:19 AMActually if these urns (not only in the temple room the whole ship was made out of them) are batteries that contain liquid which has the same colour with the colour of the engineers' blood (as seen in the first scene), then it is quite obvious that they managed to create superb batteries that used bio-chemical electrolytes with the help of advanced genetics. Think of it for a moment, when we come into contact with the liquids of our primitive car batteries we get serious skin burns, can you imagine what will happen when coming into contact with the liquids of advanced batteries that contain genetic code (DNA altering)? The Xenos are nothing but an accident, they cannot create nor destroy civilizations, they are like all other animals in the garden of Eden. Maybe the installation on LV-223 was not a genetic playground after all, but a trap organised by a small group of engineers to kill David and Dr. Shaw, I believe that the engineers are us from our future thousands years ahead of our time and that their ship could actually bend time and space. If the monolithic head in the temple room is David's head, then this means that this event changed the future of mankind forever and that the last engineer had a plan to destroy them both to change the flaw of future events. Coming back to the decoding of the black liquid which might be as well a genetic electrolyte which contains human DNA mixed up with other species DNA, compare the creation of a Xeno by coming into contact with a human being, with the DNA mutations that take place after a nuclear explosion (there are numerous tragic events in our modern history).
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 10:04 AMxenos were no accident. and acid+mix of genes altering DNA? i dont think so man, it doesn't work like that. acid would have pretty much no affect on DNA. it wouldn't react with it, all that could happen is that the ions and the water in the acid could merely just come into contact with DNA but not react with it chemically in any way, even if it did manage to get to ur DNA and miraculously react with it, it could not alter ur DNA. u need specific enzymes and nucleotides for that put simply.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 10:07 AMi mean, the proto-xenomorph was pretty much an accident, i'll give ya that man. but that is more of as some1 else who i cant remember the name of said, a "cousin" to the actual xenos rather than a proper xenomorph. the cousin xeno was the accident.
geopap
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 10:21 AM@chainsawsquirrel
My knowledge of biology is not advanced (only what I did in Highschool) and don't know the processes you described, but if you are a biologist think of what Dr Gallo said about HIV, "it's nothing like what we have ever seen before". We are talking about a sci-fi movie here and all options are possible. Most Julius Verne's works were considered impossible at his time, but later proved to be true. We only speculate and we don't know what genetic science might do in the future. In order to create something, we don't have to destroy like David said, we only have to imagine it! :) We make assumptions for "Prometheus" scenario based on the knowledge of our time, we don't know what the future holds, internet revolution that permits us to communicate here was a sci-fi scenario 2 decades ago. I still believe that the urn-battery theory is valid watch [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u94wR0NfewE&feature=related]this[/url].
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 11:42 AMwell the fact that it's sci-fi actually limits the options since it's based on SCIENCE, hence the name sci-fi. it's a bit of an oxymoron really, science and fiction being opposite things usually (not necessarily tho).
i watched the vid, and i dont like it. the guy's basically saying that it's all based on religion and gods, going by "symbols". i just simply doubt they'd habe gone through such effort to look up all this symbolism, put it in the film so that the minority of viewers who like to speculate on forums can come up with their own little theories based purely on those "symbols" which might not even be meant to be symbols for all we know.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 1:52 PM@snorklebottom is this your theory on all this or is it genuinly part of the story of prometheus?
geopap
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 2:28 PM@chainsawsquirrel
Have you ever read Phillip K. Dick? Science and Fiction are one or maybe Isaac Asimov's novels? I totally disagree with you and I presented the example of Julius Verne who wrote about things that would happen way ahead of his time, take for example the nautilus sub marine being written in a time that there were no sub marines or even the slightest idea about nuclear power (remember the strange power source that gave the ship infinite power?). Anyway chill out pal, everyone has the right to express his/her opinion, we don't write a Phd thesis here. We are here because we liked the movie and want to discuss it. You try to give a scientific point and it is respectable, but pure science without spirituality may lead to our destruction.
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 3:05 PM@geopap
well telling me to chill out ultimately depends on how you read what i said. i'm not particularly steamed or anything. Another thing is, i dont read much at all so i think that may answer ur question, and i'm not much of a historian either. However, i'm just saying, the guy's trying to explain something based on science with religion and omens. That's just not how it works man. religion and science dont mix man, despite what some people believe, god was never included in the big bang theory. it doesn't work with god in the picture, regardless of how easy it is to say "god started the big bang" (ik i'm going a bit off piece here, but this is just a comparison to the situation i'm talking about). also, u make a fair point about the liking movie, here to discuss it thing btw, but i'm not supressing any1's opinion. Theories and opinions are different, and i simply just found holes in snorklebottom's (funny name XD) theory.
@Bigdave i got a couple more things to say. firstly, the deacon chest burster can't have charecteristics of the engineer as it was implanted as an embryo, not a gamete, thus it's already been fertilised and has a full set of genes so it cant take on the genes of the engineer too. that'd be like a genetic threesome XD
But i agree with u on the idea that it's way to much danger and effort for the engineers to create xenos and go through all the trouble of transporting them around etc just to wipe out all humans so they can be harvested for DNA. Plus, by the time all humans had been wiped out by the xenos and harvested for their DNA, their cells would have probably started to autolyse (self destruction by the release of enzymes in the cell from the lysosomes upon death) thus, the DNA would also be broken up and maybe not completely destroyed, but no longer intact which is what the engineers would need to keep their evolution going. Plus, just because we didn't see any female engineers in prometheus, doesn't mean there arn't any still alive, so reproducing and evolutionary progression may not even have been a problem.
geopap
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 3:13 PM@chainsawsquirrel
Nice to see you are not so serious and strict! Actually I posted the link because I liked the similarity between the ancient Sumerian batteries and the urns on the alien ship. Maybe the black goo is an electrolyte but of organic origin.
See the real use of the urns here, maybe they power up the ship and have nothing to do with bio-weapons, take a look at the three pillars closely.
[img]http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l123/shazam99/Prometheus-TVSpot4.jpg[/img]
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 3:27 PMwell then how come the black goo causes living organisms to take on traits of the xenomorph? and how come they've even got the xenomorph mural, signifying that they're atleast aware of their existance. plus, dont you think those engineers would have a more efficient way of powering the ship other than using simple electrolysis batteries which dont even produce that much energy and run out quickly? sure, there's lotsof em but that ship is huge, i have my doubts that they could produce enough energy to even lift it. Also, considering they produce electrical energy, shouldn't there be some leads that hook them up to the rest of the ship? and we know they dont have leads, david just pick one up and took it with him, no leads attatched to them, nothing.
geopap
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 3:41 PMOk, this is where the sci-fi comes in to fill in the gaps. In the video link I posted, we see a strange similarity between the alien ship's form and an atom accelerator, maybe the ship can somehow bend space and time using technology still unknown to us. If the ship is made in Earth and came to the past to change history events, I believe the urns in the temple room are a trap to kill David and Shaw, maybe they've done something really bad that changed the flaw of events to the worst, like a crazy scientist going back in 1940 and give Hitler the atomic bomb for example, but maybe David and Shaw went to Earth but in the future. Also supposing that the ship can bend time and space and that these " batteries" have genetic material that power up the ship I believe that the goo might be altered (except of course the space in the pilot room), like in the movie "Event Horizon" remember? And another speculation, maybe the engineers were heading to Earth really, but the question is not why but when? In the future or the past? After killing David maybe the last engineer was curious to see how his present has changed. That's why we had 100% DNA match, because they are us way ahead in the future. Search in wiki for the M-theory and think about the abilities it will give us, in the future ships will not travel in space, but space will travel for us.
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
BigDave
MemberDeaconAug-14-2012 3:59 PM@geopap
Funny you should mention batteries i implied such a thing before, the reason.
Well the Temple looked like it was based on Gigers unused Harkonnen Temple from Dune.
Now the purpose Giger had in-vised for this temple was to transform living organisms genetic material and souls into energy.
So yes maybe if the temple in Prometheus is based on same idea, yes those Urns could be batteries in that the temple was used to change living organisms into energy.
@chainsawsquirrel
I understand what your saying, but this is a movie and somethings may be scientifically impossible.
The idea behind the movie was that the process that happend to the Engineer did somehow see the disintegrated genetic material somehow evolve into Humans who that happened it is not explained.
The Black Goo likewise seemed to genetically mutate the organism it came into contact with to then some how have genetic traits of the Xeno.
As you used your scientific knowledge to suggest what happened to the Sacrificial Engineer as being impossible, you could also use same principles and conclude that the Black Goo would also be impossible.
If we also looked at Physics then it could also be deemed impossible for Prometheus to travel 35 Light years in 2 years.
Also regarding the Embryo taking on Engineer traits, we are talking again about in context of the movie and the Face Hugger implants a Embryo and that Shaws Baby is some kind of Organism that is similar to the Face Hugger and thus the resulting Deacon is a similar life cycle as the Xeno Face Hugger to Chest Buster.
I have not said that my theories or the theories of others are accurate as far as Science goes, only as far as the context of the Movie and what it appears to have happened.
It would be interesting for your views on
1) What became of the Sacrificial Engineer, and the scene showing DNA
2) How this Engineers actions could, or could not had evolved into Humans.
3) The effect of the Black Goo in the urns and how it changed the Organisms it came into contact with.
4) the process that led to Shaw giving Birth to the Squid Baby/Trilobite.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
geopap
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 4:15 PM@BigDave modern physics like string theory can explain such travels, the problem is in technology, how you will create the ship. Maybe by the time the travel took place space technology took advantage of these theories but in a primitive state. Such travels can happen, the theory is there but we lack technology. Do you agree that the engineers might be us from thousands years ahead of our time?
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 4:21 PM@geopap i'm sorry if this responce is rather poor but i really cba to read everything you said. i mean no disrespect but i honestly think you need perhaps a little more understanding about what you're talking about. first you say the urns are a power source with no relation to biological stuff, now you say they're a trap for david and shaw (for what reason?) and now redecide that they are of some relavance to the genetic stuff. Plus, idk if u noticed but the derelect spacecraft shape was designed long before the hadron collider was even invented. Plus, asking me to look up M-theory is asking alot. i looked it up a few months ago, and all i managed to salvage from it is that it combines other theories into string theory to suggest that there are actually 11 dimensions in the universe. and i only know that string theory is the theory that states that elementary particles are 1 dimensional particles that exist and move in 10 dimensions, where as M-theory suggests 11. plus, who are you to tell me about M-theory and time travel when you're education goes no further than "High school"? if the engineer were to kill those humans (who were from the past), then they'd have died, thus creating a different past and therefore a different future which would then decend into the creation of a parallel universe where that engineer probably didn't exist as a result of him killing the humans in the other universe. consequently, the other universe would be where he never did kill those humans and they all lived happily ever after. the end.
also, bending space-time may be theoretically possible, and one day we may eventually create warp drive to get to far places with out time travel, but then ultimately, if that's what the crew of prometheus did, then of what relevance is it to the black goo? that's what i'm talking about, not how the engineer space craft works or how prometheus got to lv223 with out travelling thousands of years into the future in earth time. also, all the hadron collider with was smash 2 protons in order to separate the quarks in them so the higgs field can then start to form, thus revealing the higgs boson. if you can tell me how that's gonna get us warp drive, do tell. coz now u are kinda making me steam.
geopap
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 4:30 PMThe urns in the three pillars work as a power source and have nothing to do with the urns which indeed I stated that they were put there deliberately as a trap to kill the Prometheus crew. If you didn't notice, I already said that the engineers are us from the future so they already have the technology we have.The urns are everywhere the same, but the engineers know what will happen when the "battery" is opened, like messing up with our primitive batteries' liquid we have in our cars, you will get burned but in this case get transformed. Perhaps it is the bad use of language because English is not my native.
PS my education is above High - School, I just mentioned it because I hadn't studied biology since then and to clarify that I don't understand the terminology and biological processes that you described. In answer to your query about who I am? Here is a quote from Homer's Odyssey "Nobody".
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 4:45 PMwell can u atleast tell me exactly how the engineers knew that the prometheus crew were coming long before the human race was even remotely civilised, and then why the only 1 left then decided to make a trap to kill them? u think he had a crystal ball that told him that prometheus crew was gonna come, so he could set a trap to kill them unprovoked?
geopap
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 4:52 PMDid you watch Star Trek 2009? Maybe a space time anomaly happened in their present (our future) that changed events and the alien ship came to a past universe where it didn't belong and that changed their present. I told you, with the flow of events we know that WWII happened, if we could go back assassinate Hitler then we would have another present universe. Maybe they knew the events that took place because they come from the future and by setting the trap they would stop us from obtaining technology that should be accomplished in thousands years ahead. And of course technology that should never had fallen to corrupted corporations like Weyland co., which would give the upper hand in the conflicts on Earth. Remember the dreams Dave was spying on? Dr Shaw had dreams of her father still treating Ebola and malaria in a world which managed to travel in space and explore planets outside the universe, corruption and greed are what is revealed to us by her dreams.
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 5:31 PMlook, if the alien ship travelled to the past (that is assuming that travelling BACK in time is possible), if they change what they go there to change, they then go back to square one because they future where they go back in time to change the past never happened. because in changing the past, they then have changed the future in which they had a reason to go into the past and change it. therefore that future never happened, therefore they never went back in time. And that kids, is why you can't travel BACK in time :). Also, the engineers stopping humans grabbing the future technology is then stopping the future of the engineers all together since our future is our future. also, you never even mentioned how they'd possibley know that humans were coming, and you also forgot how they were on earth before humans even existed according to the story line of prometheus. therefore, they'd have had to create them selves on earth so they can exist in the future to create them selves and the cycle goes on. that's therefore a paradox and is quite impossible.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-14-2012 5:46 PMIn anycase, may i remind you again that this is totally off piece and i was argueing about the geneticy stuff about the engineer drinking the liquid at the start of the film and the goo inside the urns which genetically alters living organisms which come into contact with it. Not time travel, M-theory, quantum mechanics and relativity.
oduodu
MemberXenomorphAug-15-2012 3:53 AMSnorkelbottom
From the following link:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D2Dc_zsM2p34&v=2Dc_zsM2p34&gl=GB
It is clear that this youtube video called:
PROMETHEUS: ALIEN ANATOMY (EXCLUSIVE)
Shows that:
The seed breaks down the engineers cells and causes the dna to become a virus.
Just like you said.
What I am a bit unclear about is whether or not the virus is airborne ? That would mean you wouldn't have to drink infected water to become infected by this virus. Btw I wonder if ebola is an airborne virus ?
Then this virus will infect you just by breathing it ? After infection the virus writes itself into all the dna in you body thereby changing your genome. Almost like an RNA virus. Then the changed dna would cause you to change and accelerate mutation and increase the the rate of evolution.
Ok that's what you said.
I just need to know if it is airborne or not. It seems like that from the video clip I posted.
If it is mixed with the xeno dna and then consumed by an engineer would the resulting virus also be airborne and thereby be able to turn engineers into xenos ?
Would the worms in the ampule room be turned into a virus(by absorbtion of the conbined substance) that would cause the other worms breathing (or just by contact with the infected air) to become hammerpedes ? I assume the virus has a very short lifespan as it didn't have an affect on the crew when they found milburn and fifield or did it ? (Or maybe infection occured the first time they entered the ampule room as some of the combined substance is already flowing onto the floor and a worm will probably be turned into a virus in a few seconds) Is that how shaw was able to produce a trilobite because she was breathing xeno infected worm dna virus ? Did it maybe accelarate holloways infection by david helping him to get some xeno dna in there as well ? Would xeno infected worm dna virus cause the engineers to have wormlike creatures busting out of them ? Like the little worm holloway saw in its eye growing to gigantic size in the engineers ?
It must be incredibly complex virus to carry all that genetic material.
I guess not since shaw stayed the same after leaving with david,
Thanks
BigDave
MemberDeaconAug-15-2012 7:13 AM" coz now u are kinda making me steam"
Well thats because you are taking things to seriously, i see many on here really get on each other nerves, for what discussion about a Movie.
PROMETHEUS is a Movie and a Sci Fi that means it could try and take some science on board but at the end its fiction, i think its irrelevant about the actually real world possibility of how such a substance could work or how ships can travel such vast distances.
These things are supposed to be scientifically impossible or improbable as its a movie and the idea is that this Engineer race are so advanced that they can create craft and substances that can do things that are as far as Science today goes are IMPOSSIBLE... and its not suggesting that in 1000 or 2000 years we could create something that can do what we see in Prometheus either.
So its best to distance from Science, because for all the theory we really dont know and even in 1000 years time we may still not be able to Travel in Time, Travel into other Dimensions and be unable to send Genetic Material or Large Craft to break the Light Speed Barrier until we actually do any of that then its just theory.
And like many theories on many matters of Prometheus, many are just theories and speculation and so in no way shape or form FACTS
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave
MemberDeaconAug-15-2012 7:16 AMPS i think this Discussion is starting to head away from the thread and that is to discuss the Substances that are found in the Urns and the substance in the sacrificial bowl the Engineer had taken and the effects and theories on why and how.
Maybe other non relevant discussions could be take to PM ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-15-2012 7:32 AM@BigDave, i already said the discussion's going off topic. And he's getting on my nerves because he just doesn't know what he's talking about exactly (no offence intended). Also, what happens in the film doesn't have to be scientifically impossible, but it can be if needed to be.
geopap
MemberOvomorphAug-15-2012 9:41 AM@chainsawsquirrel
Of course I know what I am talking about, I suggested that the black goo (for which the topic is about) is an electrolyte (but of genetic composition) and has nothing to do with genetic experiments. Unfortunately we don't have face contact so we cannot know how someone expresses his/her ideas, so I perceive that the expression you use "he's getting on my nerves" shows some aggressiveness.
@BigDave
I mentioned it many times that it is science fiction, chainsawsquirrel doesn't want us to imagine things maybe and wants to stay in strict science borders (of today), ok it is acceptable. I believe that "big things have small beginnings", you have to imagine something first in order to focus on how you will do it. Can you imagine talking to a guy from -1000BC about cell phones and rockets that travel in space? This is sci-fi and it is there not only to spark our imagination but also to warn us about today's choices that could lead to a catastrophe in the future i.e. Blade Runner (Philip Dick's "Do Androids Dream").
"... and the sea will grant each man new hope, as sleep brings dreams of home." Christopher Columbus.
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteAug-15-2012 9:47 AM!!!OKAY!!!
Chainsawsquirrel & Geopap - Cool it with the insults and personal remarks, or a warning will be placed on both your accounts.
Discuss the topic at hand, regarding the theory proposed in the OP, or your alternative.
chainsawsquirrel
MemberOvomorphAug-15-2012 11:52 AMwoah man, i didn't set out to insult, which im sure i made clear in my posts, just expressing how i feel. i would say that me and geopap can never come to an agreement since we're argueing the same thing but from different perspectives. therefore what makes sense in his perspective makes no sense in my perspective. u see what im saying?
Add A Reply