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Costaguana
MemberOvomorphJul-27-2012 1:29 PMI’m so glad that I found this board and its posters’ intelligent discussions of the film. When Ridley Scott’s Alien was first released in theaters, I was too young to go see it, but I read Alan Dean Foster’s novelization and I read every issue of Starlog, in which conjecture appeared re: the Alien’s physiology, evolution, etc. And I saw James Cameron’s Aliens in the theater with friends and was very excited at the time with the expansion of the Alien mythology.
I was eager to see Prometheus this summer and did my best to avoid all spoilers so that I would be able to form my own impressions and conclusions. So, I had zero expectations re: the story except for the expectation that it would be a well-made film with an interesting, coherent story.
I love stories that are thought-provoking, intricate, intelligent, etc. but I have less and less patience with creators who don’t seem to know where there their clever creations are ultimately headed. Perhaps the X-Files and LOST have left some scars. Some creators seem to equate an absence of information with a mystery. I am thinking of Mr. Lindelof.
So, anyway, on to my observations and questions, some of which are basic, and some of which are likely dumb:
1. Not sure whether Mr. Scott was attempting some postmodern filmmaking, expecting that other media (viral videos, interviews, internet discussion, etc.) would be used to fill in plot holes. It’s interesting if he was, because media is so different now, and it would add a dimension of interactivity, of a sort, to the film. We see for example how some ongoing TV series are influenced by discussion boards (not that it always turns out very well *cough*LOST*cough*). It would be interesting as a sort of performance art, but not as a film which is expected to be a rewarding experiencing when viewed under greatly differing circumstances and for many years after its initial showing. Ultimately, the film needs to make sense in and of itself, without relying on any non-film input, and it doesn’t seem to me that Prometheus does.
2. Silly question number one: wasn’t the Space Jockey in Alien much larger than the Engineers in Prometheus? I may be misremembering, but I thought the original SJ was enormous.
3. If we realize today that the exhalations of tourists are causing damage to treasures such as the Sistine Chapel, etc., wouldn’t future scientists be concerned about possibly damaging a previously-sealed alien chamber with their exhalations? And what about possible alien pathogens? The idiocy of the scientists working on a billion-dollar, history-making expedition is really impossible to overlook. They don’t even seem to have had any scientific plans for what they would do if they found anything. Did they even take any photos while in the “Temple”?
4. The only reason for the script to make Holloway such an unlikeable prick was to not make us hate David too much when he experiments on Holloway. Otherwise, his anti-David snark serves absolutely no purpose, especially since we’re supposed to believe that Shaw loves him truly, madly, and deeply.
5. I have seen numerous people declare that David had no emotions. This is absurd. I laughed out loud at some of the early exchanges between David and Holloway. Heck, even Shaw laughed at their jousting. It seems clear to me that David was motivated, at least in part, by vindictiveness when he intentionally caused Holloway to ingest the goo. Remember, Bishop tells us that synthetic persons after Ash’s generation are bound by the Laws of Robotics. We have no evidence that David was bound by them; therefore I don’t believe that Holloway’s drunken pseudo-consent was required for David’s experiment.
6. And, speaking of David’s “experiment” on Holloway – what a ridiculous experiment with the potential to be nothing but bad! No way to isolate and observe “the subject” without contaminating the rest of the crew if things go bad (which of course they did).
7. Silly question number two: why do folks call the new Prometheus creature the “Deacon”?
8. Ridley Scott and everyone else involved in making the film was undoubtedly hyper-aware of the fact that every detail in the film would be dissected with far greater thoroughness than any exhibited by the scientists aboard the Prometheus. So, everything about the mural was intentional. Period.
9. Poor choice casting Guy Pearce as the ancient Peter Weyland. The old-age makeup is nothing but distracting. Just cast a different actor as the old man. It would have been just as effective to put Noomi Rapace in “young age makeup” for her childhood scene as it is to use distracting “old age makeup” under which not even as accomplished an actor as Guy Pearce can perform.
10. I suspect that there may be a great film on the cutting room floor, but Prometheus was a mess on such a basic level. It’s a beautiful film (not least because it features the gorgeous Noomi Rapace), but a hollow one.
I invite input and corrections from everyone...
16 Replies

Feebs
MemberOvomorphJul-27-2012 2:04 PM2. They are 2 different SJs.
7. If I remember correct that's what Ridley named him after his head shape or something.
Hope these are acceptable :) Edit. Welcome ! ^^''
This is my forum signature.

Jim100a100
MemberOvomorphJul-27-2012 2:14 PMwelcome Costaguana, you bring up excellent points...
I'll take a stab at answering/commenting on a few of your questions, having seen the movie twice, read reams of articles attempting to explain this movie, and so on...
1) Your post-modern filmmaking theory is interesting, in that most fans were voraciously eating up the viral media months and weeks in advance of the premiere. A couple of the viral pieces which (to me) were particularly effective - the TED conference and the David advertisement - and I think they enhanced the final experience of watching the movie in certain ways. This leads me to wonder if those who did not see these clips "missed out" on certain subtexts in the movie regarding David and Weyland.
2) Other than than the practical reasons of having the Jockeys (Engineers) scaled down in filming Prometheus, it is left to conjecture why the original Jockey is much bigger. Maybe they came in many different sizes, or that this was a separate "offshoot" of the Jockey race. Lame, I know..
3) Agreed x 3. They [i]did[/i] have personal cams recording everything, though.
4) Agreed again. His bigoted view of androids was annoying, but probably realistic if we ever get to that point.
5) This is where the viral ad for David was interesting. In the ad, and accompanying website, he shows little emotion, or fakes whatever he does show. This gives an extra dimension to his display of emotions in the movie - is he putting us on? Is Weyland Corp. giving out false advertising for a reason? Did he "learn" emotions during his isolation over the trip? Is Weyland's personal model more advanced than the others? Etc, etc.
6) Agreed again *sigh*
7) I believe The filmmakers gave it that name in articles promoting the movie.
8 ) I would hope so. I hate to think they threw in things for no rhyme or reason ;)
9) I think scenes of a younger Weyland were left on the cutting room floor. I'm in the minority, but I don't think the old age makeup was that bad or distracting.
10) AGREED, I wish the film was at least another 1/2 hour to 45 min longer.

Custodian
MemberOvomorphJul-27-2012 2:20 PMAh, it's such a JOY to hear such simple, unbridalled and angry first-viewing feedback.
Welcome aboard the HATE TRAIN; no, that's too harsh - let's call it the Corporate Confusion of Fog of War Obfuscation train.
"We're gathered here today, in this here forum, on the understanding (or hope) that Prometheus was a BAD JOKE on artificial person David 8's part and he 'isn't telling his corporate owners the whole truth' (via FTL transmission) about what really happened on LV-223."
God rest our insecurities.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

Jim100a100
MemberOvomorphJul-27-2012 2:28 PMYou know, it is possible to enjoy and admire a movie, while discussing its shortcomings at the same time. Should we be groveling over it completely in every thread. That would be pretty boring, no?

Costaguana
MemberOvomorphJul-27-2012 2:39 PMThanks, Feebs and Jim, for your patience and input. It seems to me that even the questions which might have answers don't have on-screen answers, and that's a fatal flaw for me.
And FreePlanet, I honestly don't see hatefulness in my post/review. In fact I enjoyed the movie so long as I didn't think about it. But it's a movie that seems to demand thought. Or at least Ridley Scott seems to have intended to make a thought-provoking movie. And I admitted in the OP that my questions may have been dumb.
I had fun watching it, but then was left with the, "Wait, what actually happened?" sensation. In fact, I was willing to believe that I was too dense to "get" some of what Scott was conveying, so I went online to read analyses of the story. But it seems more and more like there's no "there" there.

Jim100a100
MemberOvomorphJul-27-2012 2:52 PM@Costaguna:
[url=http://whatculture.com/film/prometheus-6-answers-to-the-key-questions.php]This site[/url] has three or four excellent articles attempting to explain the movie. I would start with the one i linked to, and check out the others (if you haven't already read them, that is)
For one, it puts out a great hypothesis on why the Engineers were heading back to Earth to destroy Mankind (forget the Jesus was an Engineer claptrap). The author says the beginnings of monotheism irked them, since they were so used to being worshiped and idolized. Maybe that thought is nothing new to others reading this forum, but that's the first time I heard that idea

Costaguana
MemberOvomorphJul-27-2012 3:00 PMThanks again, Jim. I've read other sites, but not the one you link to. I'll give it a shot. I'd love to love this movie. :)

Costaguana
MemberOvomorphJul-27-2012 4:05 PMI should have just watched [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0&feature=youtube_gdata_player]this[/url] before posting.

Svanya
AdminPraetorianJul-27-2012 4:10 PM@Costaguana, welcome to the forum! :D
[i] Some creators seem to equate an absence of information with a mystery. I am thinking of Mr. Lindelof.[/i]
I could not agree more with what you said.
Remember guys, everyone has a right to speak freely about how they felt about this movie. :)

Costaguana
MemberOvomorphJul-27-2012 5:30 PMThanks for the welcome, Svanya.
Now that I've vented my disappointment, I'm finding very interesting the debate about the movie. One thing that cracks me up are the people who dismiss any criticism based on the "It's just a movie - lighten up!" argument.
When filmmakers intend to be thought-provoking, the audience has a right to think!
This is a great board - lots of fun stuff here!

Costaguana
MemberOvomorphJul-30-2012 10:45 AMIn another thread, I think I summarized my conclusions about the film:
I think one of the movie's biggest problems (aside from the stunningly stupid characters) is the fact that it does not work as a stand-alone film.
If Prometheus works at all (and we won't find out for years whether it does or not), it works ONLY as the first chapter of a two- or three-movie story arc.
Hopefully, Prometheus will be a good film IN RETROSPECT, after we see the next film(s).

zzplural
MemberOvomorphJul-31-2012 4:52 AM1. There's no way on God's Earth that Ridley Scott would rely on viral marketing to make his film stand up. He wants people to look at this in 100 years time and appreciate it for what it is. Prometheus makes a lot of sense to me. But then again I've seen it several times and thought a lot about it.
3. Shaw instructed David to wait and not open the door. By then it was too late (he had his own agenda, remember). If you're fussed about alien pathogens, you might like to consider that the pathogens that affect you and me are highly tuned to do so and have evolved to co-exist with their hosts over billions of years. It's extremely unlikely that an alien pathogen would have any effect on your body. Nasty monsters are a different matter, but I guess they never had the opportunity to see the movie [i]Alien[/i] before the mission started. The 'plan' was to talk to the Engineers. Plans change, and they were hoofing it from moment to moment when they encountered all the weird stuff. They took recording equipment, sampling probes, containers for samples etc. so they weren't completely clueless.
4. Maybe Holloway doesn't like robots. I'm not particularly interested in knowing why.
5. You're right. David has what can loosely be described as emotions. Of course, he may be programmed that way, like HAL in 2001.
6. David was reacting to Weyland's orders. He probably didn't care if the crew got infected, as that was incidental to his mission. David clearly knew more than we did at that point because he declared that big things would come from the drop of liquid. He obviously did not know what the outcome would be - death.
8. Yes, everything about the mural was intentional. It's an artistic interpretation of the Engineers made by themselves.
9. Weyland's skin was - to a large extent - artificial. The result of bringing back a body from the brink of death over many decades. How would you look under such circumstances?
10. See previous answers.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Crabfart
MemberOvomorphJul-31-2012 5:44 AMYour right Costaguana it was a bit of a mess - but like you I am hoping for the sequels to save it and possibly other media like virals TV show or other - hopefully it is part of a big plan and we are going to be blown away! Because if it is not it will burn eventually and go down in history as a flop bit like the prequels to starwars! With a few lovers of course - no film ever has all haters!

Custodian
MemberOvomorphAug-01-2012 2:51 AMYes, Costaguana, the movie demands thought - like a spoiled olygarch demanding his immortality.
It's good that films like Prometheus are made (in a way); at least it's something worth downing a few coffees/beers over after the event.
I miss that, having something to discuss about a film - Prometheus has this in spades.
:)
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

zzplural
MemberOvomorphJul-31-2012 11:46 PMShut up then, if you wish, and enjoy your bias in face of the facts that you appear unwilling to comprehend or defend.
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Crabfart
MemberOvomorphAug-01-2012 6:20 AMStrange...Costaguana last post got removed?
Unless plural talking to himself? Would make sense...:P
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