Original Alien Engineer

Well, the xeno in Alien sure looked like he had plenty of life in him as he all but ripped his way back into the Narcissus before Ripley gave it the gas... And I'm all for speculation, but my "head" uses at least SOME facts when hypothesizing...

hmmm ur forgetting the part of the hologram engineers! the scream they are running from, the fact that the engineer who has his head chopped off didnt slip infront of the ambule room door something clearly happens to him and he falls to his knees and to the floor. the door then decapitates him. When Shaw and the other lady bring the head back to life its finishes off what was about to happen to him, HEAD exploding. Also look at all the bodies of engineers with holes in their heads and chests piled up that fifield and milburn find?? So not quite sure about ur theory bud..PLUS ridley has said many times thats a fossil on LV426...

I think Stay Frosty is right...The engineer on alien was very old. I think the xenomorphs were the engineer's first weapon. Then, they developed the black goo not to destroy but create life (it seems, however, it's still pretty destructive)

The Jockey in the Film Alien was attached to the chair at the moment of birth, maybe infection. I beleive the creature in Alien was a mix of a Deacon(detail, if you look, is the same, but a little,or a lot, dilhutted), engineer and chair/telescope! Most of th detail on the alien is taken from the chair anyhows (I doubt this was intentional at the time... but works now)All thhe engineers tech is biomechanical anyway and in Prometheus you see all the "tubes" attached to him during cryo! So the creature that leaves him is different. Also another factor could that the delivery system and gestation was different. The Triloobite (Squid-creature) developed Shaw's womb and grew, amillical & all, in a "traditional" way.I don't know if the Engineers are male or female (much of the life we know of here has a bigger, stronger and sometimes a more deadly female... if those terms even apply! Unless it was some strange party-nite on the derelict and the pilot was showered with infected sperm! LOL. All in all I feel if that part of th engineers PAST is covered, it will be short, sweet and without Mr. L writing it might make sense... I think if there's any answer we will have to wait for it. With the promise of at least one sequel, and most of us know a second was wished for anyway... the first act, writing sets up main characters like in almost all stories, depending on whether 1 or 2 sequels the answer may come forth. IMHO

SJ in Alien is NOT the same one from Prometheus

Ther are big phsicol differences.... the "trunk" for one... so I concour with the different being theory. Maybe the Engineers based their suits on this species flight design... that way they could use the tech!

Here's a thought. Does anyone really know for sure what burst out of the original engineers chest on LV 426 ? Up to now it would appear we think we do.

It should have been the same Engineer. What was shown still makes little to no sense to me. Or anyone I know that has seen it, for that matter...........................

@ Cypher From what i can tell, Prometheus was a two part concept from the word go. I think the fact that events in Prometheus were moved away from LV426 that have created a whole new line of debate. I do agree with you, that I felt the events should have been on LV426. I think this is where certain script writers have a bit of explaining to do. Or maybe thats the whole point, and thats why we need Paradise. I hope that is the case.

@Stay Frosty Yes the Engineer fell over and then the door took his head off. The interesting thing could be that the Hologram could actually be a Ghost Playback like a Residual Haunting? Hence Ghost Engineers (remember Ridley said the movie was about how/why we was created, who created us and where do we go after). This would explain why there was no other organisms in that Hologram apart from Engineers, but then again maybe its not Ghosts but again for some reason the Hologram does not play back what they was running from. So yes a Xeno or Xeno DNA organism could have got to that Engineer just before he fell over but the Xeno itself is not picked up or played back via the Hologram or Ghost.

How about a nice, coherant story that actually makes sense when it comes to the original movie? Is that too much to ask? Apparently. @Batchpool, I was kinda hoping for a second movie, but I think they could have answered the questions Alien fans have had for years in Prometheus and asked a whole heap of new ones with the sequel. An opportunity that was completely wasted I believe now.

As far as the Space Jockey again Ridley made it look like the Alien Pilot and his Ship had suffered some kind of decay and fossilization, but i dont think its the right term as we are not looking at bones or fossil. The reason for the look was to give the appearance that what ever that Pilot was and his Ship they had been on LV 426 for a very long time. For those who are still not convinced about the Engineer and Space Jockey connection here are some images that best show a similarity. Here is the Prometheus concept work and indeed what was hanging on the walls in the halls leading to the Pilot Room of the Juggernaut. Note its called Bio-Suit Concept Work. [img]http://www.prometheus-movie.com/media/concept037.jpg[/img] Compared to the unfinished Alien Pilot from 1979 [img]http://cache.io9.com/assets/images/8/2012/01/6ac12141127c2b26dccc65cb1030b1e8.jpg[/img] They look more similar. Yes there seems to be a difference in height as the Alien Space Jockey appears to be 12-15ft and the Prometheus Bio Suit Engineers the Ghost ones and dead ones and ones on the Wall seem to be about 8-10ft tall. Does this mean we are looking at two different races? I dont think so as Ridley had said a long time prior to Prometheus that the Alien Pilot was a Space Suit. And i think thats what these suits are they are Bio Suits used to protect them from contamination of the experiments and Bio Weapons they are creating.

As far as the direction they went, well Ridley wanted to cover a few things. 1) He had a idea and that was to explore the Engineers and Xeno been covered to death. And i am sure he had plans to explore this race with the potential of not just one movie but a few. 2) He did not want to make another Alien movie, where we would see Xenos running attacking the Crew etc. 3) He did not want to do the literal sequel and thats why he liked Lindlofs idea which was great but they should used it as a concept and not allowed him as much writing power to execute that idea into Script. We know when we saw the Thing prequel and Star Wars Prequels how they would end, we knew what would become of the events... Ridley wanted to leave the LV 426 a mystery but give us clues as to what may have happened. I think it was very clever, because in what he has done he has left a lot to be explored. Depending on the reaction Ridley could leave the Xeno creation and LV 426 a bit of a Mystery or he could even answer those questions once and for all with another movie. He wants to explore the Engineers and Elders in Prometheus 2 but with the Deacon and Shaws SOS Warning their is scope to touch upon these in Prometheus 3.

Basically, if Prometheus WASN'T a (supposed) prequel, why the ALLUSIONS or HOMAGES to Alien all the way through it. They even had the Juggernaut bouncing on the ground again, even though it didn't need to, so that it'd look like the Alien one. It just MISSED its own mark ... I'm now not even totally convinced ANY WRITER/DIRECTOR team can salvage this Lindelof-error. Elephant-Space-Jockey is the only answer; not some 'gormless elephant spacesuit' ... that's what pre-Alien would be about; those insane gigantic space-grazing beasts, not some back-engineers. Oh, or is that the whole point? Will Scott resolve his Ganesha spacejockey in the next or the next film in the Prometheus Franchise? Or will it be left to the TV Series?

@ Ruddersmoke: there most sertainly WERE xenos BEFORE Bob's birth of the Deacon -- or how is it that there are murals of them in the Big Head Room? Further, the Derelict on LV-426 was obviously there a long, LONG time, which means its cargo (Alien eggs) was, too -- which means xenos were in existence way back then as well. We all "grieve" with you, Cypher. We all wish that more was spelled out and that said spelling connected to (if not concluded) the Alien saga. But we all know why it didn't: $$$. As for the differences between the SJ and the Engineers (e.g., different suits; taller/shorter) some can be attributed to evolution (e.g., humans USED to have larger jaws, etc.) and the advances in technology in making movies (prime example is that David8 looks MUCH more "advanced" than Ash from Alien, yet the events of Alien occur AFTER the events of Prometheus). After watching more than a couple interviews with Noomi & Fassbender (btw, Stevie Wonder could see that Noomi has the hots for him), they seem like there will be another film (Ridley even says in one that Shaw dare not attach David's head again, lest she place hereself in peril from his nefariousness) -- but just like Alien Requiem, Hollywood will almost certainly NEVER answer EVERY question and will leave things open-ended... Why? $$$$$$$$$ from a sequel, if marketing analysis says so.

@ Cypher Ridley has given us the answers, he just as not shown us those on film and i agree i think we could have been shown what he said in the movie even just as a flash back scene. I think the idea was good in what he did and that Prometheus was not about the Derelict that landed on LV 426 i think that was the right choice as all we would have ended up with was a limited scope for sequels to Prometheus. Here is and not word for word but you can find that out on the internet, so here is Ridleys description about LV 426. 1) The Technology of the Derelict and Space Jockey was perhaps millions of years old, this would go with the idea behind the Engineers who came to Earth and Sacrificed one of their own. 2) The Pilot was taking a Cargo of Bio Weapons to a unspecified destination (the purpose is unknown could be to use on a target or to quarantine). 3) The Derelict was some kind of Bomber (but i liken it to a Cargo Craft than a Bomber, i think by Bomber it has the ability to drop what ever Cargo it was carrying or deploy it somehow). 4) The Pilot had to make a unplanned emergency landing on a near by planetoid; as one of the Cargo had gotten lose and had eventually got to the Pilot. 5) The Pilot thus had to make a crash landing on LV 426 and then set off a warning beacon to his fellow Race, to warn them that his Ship and its Deadly Cargo had been compromised and warn them of the location of the crash landing and Cargo. 6) The events of this crash happened 200 years prior to the events that nearly killed off all the Engineers on outpost LV 223. Thats the description Ridley had given.... Now i would have done a flash back scene as in the opening scene, but done what after the credits... Here is what i would have done..... END PRODUCTION CREDITS.... 1) Roll to a scene of a Jugernaught flying through space we then pan to the Pilot room and see the Pilot in his chair..... 2) We then pan to a scene showing a Cargo of Xeno Eggs, we then see one of the Eggs start to open and just get a glimpse of the Face Huggers Fingers. 3) We then pan back to the Pilot Room and the Pilot notices something is a miss and maybe gets out his chair or maybe not. 4) We then see some kind of alarm going off and a Engineer climb back into his chair and set up a warning beacon or maybe we dont.... 5) We go to a space scene again and see the Jugernaught heading towards a Ringed Gas Giant Planet and notice it has 4 moons. 6) We then fade to black....... or 7) We then see the ship crash land on LV 426 and then pan to the Pilot Room and see a Pilot who is not well, make a emergency warning Beacon. 8) Then we see his chest start to expand..... For me this would have done the trick my idea i would have left out 4, 7, 8 to add some Mystery. i think the evidence shows that the Engineer would have set a landing course on LV 426 as a quarantine as he knew the Cargo was compromised and set the Warning Beacon just before the crash. Because looking at Alien his hands was on the controls and he was chest busted so it must have happened as the ship was landing on the planet... The Engineer must have gone to investigate and got Face Hugged, then when he recovered he must have got back in his Pilot Chair and set a course for the nearest Baron Moon to Quarantine the Cargo but as he was landing then he got Chest Busted.

As far as the disappointment of the Space Jockey, my only problem was the scale, they could have used LOTR trickery to make the Engineer apear to be 10ft or more tall and not the error Ridley used when placing him near Shaw to show he was 7.5ft tall. So would we rather had seen this... [img]http://content.animalnewyork.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/art-miamismall-1.jpg[/img] Or Gonzo? Did anyone see the comic books Space Jockeys... they would not have looked right. Ridley had said ages before Prometheus that it was a space suit and i think when we look at the engineer and that i think the suit is a Bio Suit then it all fits. The closest we got to a Elephant man was Fifield who looked like.. [img]http://blogs.nature.com/news/files/Joseph_Merrick_carte_de_visite_photo%252C_c__1889.jpg[/img]

This is where things get very interesting to me... The SJ must have been conscious when the Jugg landed or the ship and its cargo would have smashed into smitherines on LV-426. Also, in every Alien movie thus far, the eggs do not open until a host is nearby or touches them. So it's inconsistent with canon that a facehugger "got out" and found the SJ. But this is where the beginning of Aliens plays a HUGE role: Weyland Industries (WI) sent terraformers to LV-426 "years before" Ripley is discovered floating in space; Terraformers who "never reported seeing any eggs or aliens/xenos." In fact, if it weren't for Burke hearing Ripley's story -- and then sending the terras out to LOOK for the Jugg -- they'd still be living there today! LOL Therefore, WI did NOT know about the Jugg/eggs on LV-426. However, in Alien, Ash finally reveals that returning with a xeno was their "prime objective" (to steal a phrase from Star Trek). Plot hole? Sure looks like one. And while Ridley Scott wasn't the dealer in Aliens (or Alien 3, etc.), I'll think less of him if he doesn't somehow wrap up the hands we've been dealt (a la Star Wars) by the end.

Btw, how are you folks inserting photos here; can't seem to...

HORROR EXCUSE SCENARIO that's worse than Lindelof's ridiculous time-travel narrative for Star Trek reboot film: Ready? Deacon not only PILOTS one of the four spare Juggernauts, he/she also BLENDS WITH IT (genetically) gigantifying the structure at the atomic level. That's why the original Space Jockey was THAT MUCH BIGGER than the one in Prometheus. But even this doesn't make any sense because he/she had no chestburster etc...

@Freeplantet. And perhaps the SJ from Alien is older. Keep in mind, he was fossilize. Like a dinosaur. Plus the rules of how the SJ is fossilized may not follow the same rules that we have on earth due to the atmosphere and make up of the species.

Freeplanet, the SJ lived YEARS, perhaps EONS BEFORE the Deacon was created. If memory serves, the events in Alien occur approx 25-30 years after the events in Prometheus.

Red Wolf, allegedly - but that can all change in Lindelof-world. LOL

I suppose...

We know what happened to the SJ. He was on his way somewhere with bioweapons, he was infected, something burst out of him, he crashed, he was discovered by the crew of the Nostromo. Why do we have to have another damn franchise to tell us that? Ridley realizes this. It was Ridley's idea to tell another story. He hired Lindeloff to get his ideas written out. Ridley's stated before that he's a "frustrated writer" and that instead of hitting himslef over the head and taking too long trying to get his ideas down, he can afford to hire expensive writers to get HIS ideas down on paper. It doesn't make sense to tell a damn story we already know! And if you have half a brain then you pretty much know what happened to the SJ. Grow an imagination and fill in the blanks. Just my opinion lol.

Before Prometheus the SJ in Alien to me was: 1.) A GIANT Frickin Snork Alien not ancient human 2.) Was created to pilot the ship and permanently bonded there cause where he's going there is no coming back 3.)A kamikaze pilot who's sacrifical journey was to seed Alien technology that can't be morally understood cause it's creators are from HELL 4.) Regardless if the radio transmission is understood as an SOS or a Warning it is a BEACON revealing their omnipotent presence 5.) The ship was not crashed but purposely landed cause it was Terrorforming under the planet surface and is it self a portal to the homeworld

I concur 100%. The SJ/Juggernaut/eggs scenario is all but answered for me. But again, how that scenario, the "mission" of the Nostromo to bring back [to Weyland Ind.] a xeno, the beginning of Aliens (i.e., terraformers; Burke; Queen Alien, etc.) TIES IN with Prometheus is perplexing, no?

Sorry. I meant I concur with Engineering 100%.

no, we all know why it wasn't simply spelled out, Lindelof.

Linde' only did what he was TOLD to do; RS & FOX hold rank on him. Pro' is no different from just about EVERY sci-fi/action movie: Keep Them Wanting More = more $$$. Dirty Harry Star Trek Die Hard Alien Rambo Predator the list goes on-n-on... The truly sad part of it all is that RS is no Spring Chicken (and I was in HS when Alien "came out" (pun intended), so I'm hoping Epimetheus (I'm starting/continuing a movement to name the sequel) is released while I'm still breathing!