Original Alien Engineer

I know its a plot hole for how does a Xeno Egg come open without no one around? I dont know how Ridley explains that one, but then again maybe there is a way this can happen we really dont know. What would possess the Pilot to maybe go and have a peep at his Cargo while he is on a mission, thus gets Facehugged, then after he regains consciousness he realizes whats happened and that he can not get his Cargo to its destination and thus he knows its only a matter of time before he gets Chest Busted. If thats the case why did he set down to LV 426, unless he knew the Cargo is deadly and they cant allow it to come into contact with any lifeforms without their (Engineers) control and approval. So after he gets Face Hugged he then tries to Quarantine the Ship and its Cargo and heads for a Baron System and sends the SOS Message. Thats the only thing that makes sense, as the Engineer had his hands on the controls so i dont think his Ship had landed when he was Chest Busted but he was in the process of flying or landing the Ship when he got Chest Busted which means he must have set the Beacon prior to the landing. Then again who knows the exact sequence.

Some clarifictaion for you all... The stuff the Engineer drinks at the beginning of the film was developed first, probably billions of years ago. The urns were developed later using the stuff (mentioned above), which is inside the vials (Holloway suffers like the Engineer mentioned above) and mixing it with a black slime (Xenomorph DNA), resulting in a black oil which infects anything it touches turning them Xenomorph (Fifields behaviour, Hammerpedes acidic blood). Thus The urns are the means by which the Xenomorph is deployed onto target worlds, and were developed thousands of years ago. The Deacon is not THE first Alien, it is A first generation Alien, an example of the mixed contents of the urns infecting a dimorphic humanoid population. Not only is a Deacon/Xenomorph shown on a carving in the ampule room, but follow the logic of the ship on LV-426... Juggernaut sets of from LV-223 (moon in Prometheus) with a cargo of urns, deploys them on a nearby planet. Xenomorph proagates until all hosts are exhausted and only the eggs remain. Juggernaut picks up all the eggs and either returns home or to LV-223. [u]En-route an alarm goes off notifyiing the pilot that one of the Facehuggers is loose. Pilot looks down to its right and sees the floor starting to melt (Facehugger spitting acid). The Engineer tries to get out of the chair but is Facehugged as he does so. Waking up the Engineer sees the dead Facehugger on the floor and climbs back into the chair thinking his suit will prevent the Chestburster from escaping. The Chestburster then erupts from his chest forcing the Juggernaut to autpilot the nearest celestial body, LV-426 and engage and automatic beacon.[/u] Also remember that the Engineers on LV-223 were vistims to there own creation as shown in Prometheus, 2000 years ago. Which halted their plans of deploying the urns on Earth. @ Big Dave... The events of LV-426 can still be shown to the audience in a sequel... A ship, probably Yutani Corporation funded, arrives on LV-223 to ascertain the fate of the Prometheus. As well as encountering the Deacon's offspring, most likely a more primal version of the Queen the crew of this ship reactivate the same recording David activated in the Orrery. One of the crew alerts the teams attention to a nearby moon in the holographic display flashing red. Their resident Synthetic operates the holographic recording and relates that it is a signal transmitting a recording, which is then played showing the events underlined above.

@RedWolf, re: Linde' only did what he was TOLD to do; RS & FOX hold rank on him. Sorry, Linde became CENTRAL to what Prometheus became, he was hacving a whale of a time, inventing shit without reason, contributing to the virals, building biblical structures on foundations of 'shifting' sand. He even received an executive producer credit - never overlook the power Linde wielded during Production.

My theory is that the SJ in the Alien movie is from the same planet that the others are from. But this could be either a different species or evolution has taken place and it's possible that the species in Prometheus are dressing like the SJ in Alien to pay homage to that one. Seeing that they come/evolved from him/her. SJ in Alien, regardless of the fossilized body, looks to organic compared to the creatures and space suit in Prometheus. Looks both organic and much larger. Look at the size the creature compared the others. In Alien, Ridley wanted to make sure that we got an idea of the size of the creature and ship by putting children in space suits and standing next to the SJ. Prometheus may not be a prequel. Alien SJ may have been there all the time before Prometheus and Sigourney's character and crew found him due to the signal.

epics7, exactly, and SJ's fossilised. However, the Sacrifice Engineers in Prometheus are at least millions, if not billions, of years old if they're seeding a proto-Earth and if this isn't a bit of Lindelof-CREATIONISM i.e. 10,000 years ago (cos we counted all the Biblical ages). Remember that Alec Guinness enters Mos Eisly space port, quote, "These are not the droids you're looking for." Well, that's what I felt like Lindelof/Scott were doing to us the viewer to goad us into seeing the Alien universe with the eyes of their delusion/obfuscation.

@Red Wolf...Yes! It seems we are of the same mind on just about everything. I guess I can understand why some are upset that Scott didn't spell out the occurances that led to Alien. I guess. But I don't understand how someone who has read articles and follows the film closely can T-totally miss his point and believe that the sequel or sequels will exist soley to tell that story. At this point Scott has made it clear that he would rather not tell that story. That he wants to go in a new direction. The Alien origin story may be a footnote in the films if anything. But I do realize that in the beginning the project was to be a straight prequel and that ideas were changed and it became what it is today. I know that there's a chance that, due to backlash, Scott might end up telling that story. I doubt Scott will bend though. If he does I will be disappointed as I feel the franchise can be a do more.

OK, Snorkle' (although in this instance I think SNORT-lebottom is more appropriate), man! are you taking some poetic license here! A. There is no evidence that the black goo is billions of years old or that it "came first." B. While there is some evidence that the glass vials inside the urns contains a "second" substance -- and that when mixed with its surrounding substance begins a morphing affect on its subject -- there is no true evidence that it creates xenomorphs/aliens as we know them from Alien, Aliens, etc. C. If your theory above is correct, why do the Engineers "gather up" the eggs that are left on the host-less planet (i.e., they have more than enough urns) -- and what do the remaining xenos on that planet do, simply help the Engineers load them into the Jugg.? D. As stated earlier, facehuggers only pounce when a host is nearby; ergo, how does one "get loose"? E. We've seen NO SIGN of any such "alarms." F. How do you know the SJ looks to his right (I mean, it coulda been his left or behind him, yes?)? Ok, ok... that's a little picaune on my part. G. Again, no sign/evidence of an autopilot feature on Jugg (though I wouldn't be shocked if it had two) nor of an automatic warning beacon (and if it had such a warning beacon feature, isn't there more than ONE warning an Engineer might wanna give? Y'know, perhaps a black goo warning or a I-think-I-mighta-tripped-the-self-destruct-program-feature warning?). H. Deacon's offspring? Who has said anything about the Deacon having offspring? I. How could a holographic image of something that occurred possibly MILLIONS if not billions of years ago be triggered? My man, time to put the crack pipe down... LOL.

@Red Wolf...To answer part of C, xenos die after a short period of time. 2 or 3 days I believe. Maybe less. Scott has said this before. When the xeno in Alien was crawling into the crevices of the Narcissus, it is crawling in to die. Also, I don't think Snorkel is claiming that all those ideas are facts. I think he's just thinking and using his head like Scott intended.

Both Sides, play nice now. LOL

Why cant we debate instead of have to get agitated at each other, Ridley intended us to all come up with out own theories but not to bicker about them. As far as FACT goes there are not a lot... Lets clear up some of Snorkelbottoms. 1) The stuff the Engineer drinks. There is no given date of how old it is, while it appears to be on Earth again Ridley said it may not be. Again its a movie and so we dont know if its going the scientific route and so Earth could have live start over a Billion years ago. But then we do not know if the planet was baron of life, the Engineers DNA was spread though the Water Fall but again there is not enough prove to say if there was already life or not, and thus no 100% proof that the Engineer DNA seeded the building blocks of life or that its DNA mutated lifeforms already on the planet just as the Black Goo in the Urns does. All we can gather is yes the substance the Sacrificial Engineer had taken, predates the 2000 years ago downfall of the outpost on LV 223, indeed its a great chance this substance was used by the Engineer many thousands of years prior and he could have done so 20K, 100K, 1M or even Millions of years ago. There has never been given any time, only hinted it was the event that started complex life on that planet. My guess this scene happened hundreds of Millions of years ago if not close to a Billion or so. 2) The urns were developed later using the stuff. This is a tricky one and open to debate because we did not see what really would have happened to Holloway and thus we dont know for sure if he is decentigrating like the Sacrificial Engineer. There is no proof that this substance is 100% the same as the one the Sacrificial Engineer had taken, or that Xenos are developed from this stuff. The only thing we see is that the substance the Engineer taken breaks down his genetic make up and DNA and for some reason this broken down material has the ability to evolve and mutate either into basic building blocks of life, or mutate and evolve basic lifeforms already on the planet he seeded his DNA. With regards to the Urns we see that it seems to only effect living Organisms that come into contact with it and it comes to life when it reaches a certain temperature and affected by something we exhale from out respiratory system. CO2? And that this substance seems to mutate and change the DNA of what ever Organism it comes into contact with and these Organism become a hybrid of its own DNA and Xeno DNA. 3) The Deacon is not THE first Alien This is a tricky one, because yes the Mural to me looks more Deacon than Xeno but then shows Face Huggers on it as well, so its hard to say. Is the Deacon just a Organism that looks like some ancestor, or is it actually on the Mural and thus the Mural is some kind of prophecy and some how the Xeno and Eggs come from it. we just dont know, Ridley has not said so and he has left clues to confuse us, there are far too many clues and statements that contradict if the Xeno comes from the Deacon or the Deacon comes after. I would assume the Xeno existed a long time prior. 4) Juggernaut sets of from LV-223 Ridley confirmed this and said the ship in Alien made a emergency landing because some how (dont say how) one of the Cargo of Eggs becomes compromised and infects the Pilot, the Pilot then decides to land the Derelict on the closest moon so as to quarantine the Cargo and sends a Beacon to his fellow Race, he gets Chest Busted but we dont know at what point. That text you placed about En-route where does that come from? i know Ridley said that the Pilot did get infected by the Face Hugger that got lose but i dont think he gave details? ----------------------------------------------------------- I agree i think Ridley will answer all within time, he plans to have 3 movies in total se we only seen part 1 and he hinted that part 2 would go further away from the Xeno and so i feel will cover the Engineers in detail who are they and why, who created them and why they created us and then wanted to destroy us. I feel Prometheus 3 will tie in Alien to Prometheus 1+2

Not sure "bickering" is the correct noun; more like spirited debate (brought on by Snorkle's ostensibly empiracle, mater-of-fact-ly staed positions on things that are, at best, conjecture. And BigDave, you seem to all but mirror my "objections." Like Free Planet's assertion that Lindelof pretty much got to do whatever the hell he pleased (despite RS's and/or 20th Century Fox execs desired), it is difficult for me to hear 5% fact + 95% conjecture spoken as if it is 100% canon. 'Course, my wife says I'm stubborn -- but what does SHE know!? LOL Anyway... It would appear that both the black goo AND xenos have been around a long, LONG time -- which of course means that the Deacon is just "the latest" in a long line of xenos (gotta say though that the Deacon doesn't seem to acquire any traits from Bob; at least not like the Alien in Alien3 did regarding the dog host or the Predlien in Requiem). As for TWO MORE movies!!!!!!!!! Well, I hope Scott lives long enough!!!!! Then again, Cameron would prolly make a BETTER sequel.

@redwolf, as 'fun' as the Aliens-ride was, it BROKE the living lone xeno-transmutative sex-maniac stalker-vampyre canon, and that makes Cameron a very bad boy.

Well now... Other than using some poetic license of his own (e.g., a queen), I'm not so sure Cameron broke anything: * Terraformers sent out on "Easter egg hunt" by Carter Burke; they ostensibly find/investigate Juggernaut. * Terraformers gets face-hugged worse than a visit by my Aunt Millie. * Aliens-a-plenty are "born." * Queen (perhaps among said births) & "children" move to warmer climates in/around nuclear reactor. * Enter Ripley & Marines; battles ensue. * LV-426 is blown to smitherines. * Queen meets her maker (so to speak) in same fashion as xeno in Alien. So... exactly what canon did Jimbo break?

@ RedWolf.... Answers to your questions... A. There is no evidence that the black goo is billions of years old or that it "came first." [b]The film infers that we are the result of an Engineer performing the same act as shown at the beginning of the film, an act which started life, and life began and this planet many 100's of millions of years ago, ergo the stuff that Engineer drunk at the start of the film is at least that old. The urns were clearly developed and deployed thousands, not millions of years ago, as exemplified by the cave paintings and stone tablets found by Shaw and Holloway dating from 35,000 years to 1,400 years ago, and the Engineers on LV-223 falling victim to the urns 2,000 years ago before they had chance to deploy them on Earth.[/b] B. While there is some evidence that the glass vials inside the urns contains a "second" substance -- and that when mixed with its surrounding substance begins a morphing affect on its subject -- there is no true evidence that it creates xenomorphs/aliens as we know them from Alien, Aliens, etc. [b]Substance inside the vials is coagulated, lumpy and the substance coating the vials is slimy, mucus like - neither have the viscosity of oil, which the "Black Goo" has, and yet they are the only substances stored with the urns, ergo the oil substance is a result of the two mixing together (think the two-liquid bomb from Die Hard with a Vengeance). Evidence of Xenomorph - Hammerpedes acidic blood, Hammerpedes general appearance and behaviour mirroring that of a Facehugger and Chestburster, and Fifields behaviour and original appearance.[/b] C. If your theory above is correct, why do the Engineers "gather up" the eggs that are left on the host-less planet (i.e., they have more than enough urns) -- and what do the remaining xenos on that planet do, simply help the Engineers load them into the Jugg.? [b]Once the Xenomorphs have exhausted their supply of hosts they will inevitably die, once done so the Engineer would return to gather the eggs. Why? I don't know, but they obviously do so because we saw one of the ships on LV-426, with a cargo bay full of eggs.[/b] D. As stated earlier, facehuggers only pounce when a host is nearby; ergo, how does one "get loose"? [b]Facehuggers have been shown to sense and hunt down hosts in Aliens (Newt and Ripley), Alien 3 (Ripley), AVP and AVPR... Sensing there was only one host it is viable that the closest egg hatched and the escaping Facehugger made its way towards the Engineer.[/b] E. We've seen NO SIGN of any such "alarms." [b]There was a layer of blue laser-mist covering the eggs, which while probably also protecting the eggs could also have been used to alert the pilot of any breach from his deadly cargo.[/b] F. How do you know the SJ looks to his right (I mean, it coulda been his left or behind him, yes?)? Ok, ok... that's a little picaune on my part. [b]In Alien the hole in the platform that Kane notices and descends down into to the egg chamber underneath, is situated to the right and in front of the direction the dead Engineer was seated.[/b] G. Again, no sign/evidence of an autopilot feature on Jugg (though I wouldn't be shocked if it had two) nor of an automatic warning beacon (and if it had such a warning beacon feature, isn't there more than ONE warning an Engineer might wanna give? Y'know, perhaps a black goo warning or a I-think-I-mighta-tripped-the-self-destruct-program-feature warning?). [b]The derelict Engineer craft on LV-426 did not crash, it was forced to land. Had it crashed there would have been more damage to the ship. The ship can only be flown by a pilot that is seated in "the chair", as shown in Prometheus. Thus when the pilot "blacked out" from being hugged the ship would most likely have auto-piloted to the nearest safe area - LV-426. As for the automatic beacon, it was a beacon that repeated every 12 seconds, the USCSS Nostromo homed in on it in 2122.[/b] H. Deacon's offspring? Who has said anything about the Deacon having offspring? [b]After the end credits in Prometheus when the Deacon bursts from the Engineers torso it is seen holding a small organic, leathery object, not too dissimilar to a Xenomorph Egg.[/b] I. How could a holographic image of something that occurred possibly MILLIONS if not billions of years ago be triggered? [b]As explained in the second part of the answer to question A, the Urns, and thus the Xenomorphs are not millions of years old, but thousands of years old - and the two holographic recordings shown to us in Prometheus were also thousands of years old, therefore it is within the realm of suspended disbelief.[/b] Prometheus is a film that is intended to be studied and analyzed like a puzzle, if you actually pay attention to what was and wasn't shown and inferred, the rest is a simple case of logical deduction. And please refrain from issuing personal insults to both members and staff!

Wow. Where to start??? "Infers..." "I don't know..." "Could also have..." "Not too dissimilar..." "Within the realm..." Not exactly terms/phrases I would define as "clarifications," Snork'. Also, I agree that life ON EARTH began millions of years ago -- but then we don't KNOW if the planet in the opening scene IS Earth. Urns in cave paintings? I saw Pro twice but don't recall seeing them... Though the urns existed before the Engineer gets his head lopped off, they COULD have existed eons before, yes? Viscous... non-viscous... who's to say (though I CAN say my wife's iced tea can be viscous at times!)? I know that David8 retracts a FULLY INTACT dual glassine vial from the urn, ergo NO MIXTURE. And the film does not show him "mixing" the substances, either. "Evidence" goo = xeno? No. But there IS evidence it "morphs" creatures into monstrous, violent beings (then again, it did not have the same effect on the opening scene Engineer, hmmmmmmmmm...). Engineers "gathered" eggs? Ummm... not sure we know THAT. But we DO KNOW the Jugg. had them in its cargo bay. Perhaps they were "gathered" on LV-426 and the SJ never got off the ground? Indeed, Facehuggers can/do crawl around ostensibly "searching" for a host -- but only after being taken out of an egg or removed from a face (e.g., Burke letting loose the 2 FHs on Ripley & Newt). The lone exception in my mind is the one that eventually gets the Predator in AVP so I'll score one for you there; however, you have repeatedly said that those films are not canon so I'm not sure how/why you get to have your cake and eat it, too). Is that hole Kane goes down into the ONLY ingress/egress to the bridge of the Jugg.? Even if that pouch the Deacon appears to have IS an egg containing a FH, just whose face would it hug to produce offspring? Everyone still on LV-223 is dead. And lastly, xenos must be more than a few thousand years old, for two reasons: 1. Who builds a "temple" -- repleet with glowing green stone and murals -- to a creature that hasn't been around "forever"? I mean, humans praise the tiger, the lion -- even the dinosaur -- but the Purple Crab? I don't think so. 2. If, as you say, the black goo is part lumpy/part smooth -- and one of those parts is xeno DNA, then xenos have been around for millions, perhaps BILLIONS of years (which is consistent with the aforementioned temple, murals, etc.). So Snorky, you'll forgive me if I cannot accept your "hypothesis" (David8 joke intended) as "clarification," as you put it. For it has dots even Bozo the Clown cannot connect. Oh, and I'm not sure where I issued any "personal insults," unless one's skin is thinner than my wife's spaghetti sauce.

"Not sure "bickering" is the correct noun; more like spirited debate" Agree my point was that some seem to take it too serious and get too defensive with their ideas. At the end of the day every one of us could be wrong hopefully we get our answers by Prometheus 3. Oh and the way Prometheus is done is to leave it open ended to have ambiguity so we all add the clues together in a fashion that we do not and can not all come to the same conclusions. Like with the Deacon and LV 426, Ridley has left contradicting comments. One one hand he says the ship on LV 426 has been there a long time, and was carrying Eggs but one of the Face Huggers from one of those Eggs got to the Pilot (Ridley as far as i am aware has never said how this happened). This suggests that the Deacon does not give rise to the Xeno or the event of Alien, he also said the ship may had been on LV 426 200 years prior to the events of the Ghost Engineer scene thus 2200 years prior to the 2090s The Mural shows the Xeno and Face Hugger which means they was around prior to the events of Prometheus... or was they? Because the Mural looks more like the Deacon to me and thus maybe its a Prophecy of whats to come? Ridley also said this movie is where Mommy meets Daddy and i think he means Shaw and infected Holloway and how that leads to Shaws Baby and then Deacon and being connected to Alien.... Ridley said you wont get any connection to Alien until the end of the movie. And Lindelof said the movie is about the Progenitor So we really dont know, as Ridley has given us two possibilities maybe one is red herring? Hopefully we will get some answers... As far as which was first the Urns or Eggs we dont know, it has not been explained, only clues

@Red Wolf; I'm sorry your wife can't cook.

All in good fun/humor, Svanny. Actually, she's a WONDERFUL cook -- and makes THEE best sauce I've ever had... ;o) But picking up on what BigDave said above, I have a new rhetorical conundrum: "Which came first, the Urn or the Egg?" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

@Red Wolf; Can I get the recipe??

@ Red Wolf.... Also, I agree that life ON EARTH began millions of years ago -- but then we don't KNOW if the planet in the opening scene IS Earth. [b]We don't need to know whether or not the scene at the start of the film is of Earth, the scene where Shaw says "Their DNA predates ours", ergo the stuff inside the cup from which the Engineer at the start of the film drank from is at least millions, if not billions of years old.[/b] Urns in cave paintings? I saw Pro twice but don't recall seeing them... [b]I never said there were urns in cave paintings[/b] Though the urns existed before the Engineer gets his head lopped off, they COULD have existed eons before, yes? [b]The Urns and their contents were created to be a deployed weapon as shown in Prometheus, had they been created eons ago we would have been wiped out and there would have been no point for the Engineers to visit us to point us to LV-223, instead they would have planned to wipe us out before 2000 years ago.[/b] Viscous... non-viscous... who's to say (though I CAN say my wife's iced tea can be viscous at times!)? I know that David8 retracts a FULLY INTACT dual glassine vial from the urn, ergo NO MIXTURE. And the film does not show him "mixing" the substances, either. [b]The content in the vials is the same as that taken by the Engineer at the beginning of the film, both and only that Engineer and Holloway experienced great pain while black veins crept through their body. Ergo same substance. The mixing of the substances happens when the urns are triggered, as in when David opened the door to the chamber, changing the chambers atmosphere.[/b] "Evidence" goo = xeno? No. But there IS evidence it "morphs" creatures into monstrous, violent beings (then again, it did not have the same effect on the opening scene Engineer, hmmmmmmmmm...). [b]As explained above the substance consumed by the Engineer at the start of the movie is the content within the vials. The substance that contaminated the worms and Fifield was a mixture of that substance and the slime covering the vials; Xenomorph DNA - creating the same effect as that of the Engineer at the start of the movie, imprinting Xenomorph DNA onto anything the resulting oil comes into contact with.[/b] Engineers "gathered" eggs? Ummm... not sure we know THAT. But we DO KNOW the Jugg. had them in its cargo bay. Perhaps they were "gathered" on LV-426 and the SJ never got off the ground? [b]Ridley Scott has stated, quite clearly that the ship on LV-426 was forced to land there when its pilot fell foul to its deadly cargo of Xenomorph Eggs.[/b] Indeed, Facehuggers can/do crawl around ostensibly "searching" for a host -- but only after being taken out of an egg or removed from a face (e.g., Burke letting loose the 2 FHs on Ripley & Newt). The lone exception in my mind is the one that eventually gets the Predator in AVP so I'll score one for you there; however, you have repeatedly said that those films are not canon so I'm not sure how/why you get to have your cake and eat it, too). [b]Err, as evidenced in my thread [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9360]The Final Canon Debate[/url], I am one of those arguing that AVP be considered canon.[/b] Is that hole Kane goes down into the ONLY ingress/egress to the bridge of the Jugg.? [b]It was an acid burnt hole, facehuggers are known to spit acid to gain access to hosts, as evidenced by the acidic burns on Kanes helmet.[/b] Even if that pouch the Deacon appears to have IS an egg containing a FH, just whose face would it hug to produce offspring? Everyone still on LV-223 is dead. [b]How would the deacon know that? especially on a biological, genomic level?[/b] And lastly, xenos must be more than a few thousand years old, for two reasons: 1. Who builds a "temple" -- repleet with glowing green stone and murals -- to a creature that hasn't been around "forever"? I mean, humans praise the tiger, the lion -- even the dinosaur -- but the Purple Crab? I don't think so. [b]Christianity is only 2000 years old, yet a damn good percentage of the worlds population partake of this religion, or variations of it (Jehovahs, Mormons etc.)[/b] 2. If, as you say, the black goo is part lumpy/part smooth -- and one of those parts is xeno DNA, then xenos have been around for millions, perhaps BILLIONS of years (which is consistent with the aforementioned temple, murals, etc.). [b]I am stating that the black slimy mucus is Xenomorph DNA, there is no evidence to suggest they have been around for millions of years, in fact the fact that the Engineers visited us starting 35,000 years ago before changing their mind and intending to deploy the urns, which result in the Xenomorph, 2000 years ago suggests very heavily in favor that the creature has only existed for thousands of years.[/b] So Snorky, you'll forgive me if I cannot accept your "hypothesis" (David8 joke intended) as "clarification," as you put it. For it has dots even Bozo the Clown cannot connect. Oh, and I'm not sure where I issued any "personal insults," unless one's skin is thinner than my wife's spaghetti sauce. That right there is a personal insult, once you make a debate personal you have already lost respectability within the debate. I suggest you peruse [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2594]The Forum Rules[/url] and refrain from any more needless insults, and debate the topic in hand.

The fact the Engineers' DNA "predates ours" does not equate to the goo predating us. It simply means that Engineers themselves predate us (you see, we DO need to know if that planet in the beginning is Earth or not). "The urns were clearly developed and deployed thousands, not millions of years ago, as exemplified by the cave paintings and stone tablets found by Shaw and Holloway..." Again; I don't recall tehre being any urns depicted in the cave paintings. I'm not sure how you reach the conclusion that if the urns existed, say 35,000 years ago, we'd already be extinguished? The Engineers may have had urns for a long, long time -- just never bombed us with them, no? If the urns are triggered with atmosphere change, then why wasn't the urn David brought INSIDE the SHIP triggered -- especially when he takes the glass vials out? While I am inclined to believe reported quotes from key players like RS, I have heard reports of conflicting statements; therefore I prefer to reply on what's on film. But for sake of argu -- er, DEBATE -- I'll assume from now on that the SJ landed on LV-426 as you/RS say. Still doesn't mean all your "clarifications" hold merit or are logically concluded. Regarding AvP, I actually read on IMDb today that AvP and Requiem are considered PREQUELS to Alien/Aliens/Alien3, etc. First time I had ever heard that, but if true, pretty much confirms that Aliens have been around for eons; so long in fact that Predators raise their young hunting them (NB: I'll try to read the "Canon Debate" thread when I get time). The Deacon doesn't need to "know" there are no hosts on LV-223; the fact is that with no one there to act as host, he cannot bear offspring. Right? Good point re Christianity (then again, humans are mindless sheep at times while the Engineers don't seem so). How does it logically conclude that xenos have only been in existence for thousands of years due to the fact that the Engineers visited us 35k years ago and were only going to destroy us 2000 yrs ago? (shaking my head) It is just as "logical" that they've had xeno DNA for MILLIONS of years and simply decided to destroy us with it when they did, no? Dude, you and I have veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery different ideas of what a personal insult is. However, lest you overreact and ban me from this site, I'll "try harder" not to offend.

Big Dave, re: your end-of-Prometheus crash landing, LV-426 happened THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, and it had a 5m Oliphant Driver, not some 3m dwarf in Giger skin. No can do.

My end would had been a flash back.... the beginning of Prometheus never happened within the time line of Prometheus it was a unspecified amount of time go but a time that was certainly many thousands of years ago if not millions..... (but there is a major plot hole that could rule out millions or years or billions). My ending showing to some extent the crash landing on LV 426 which Ridley has already said what happened just we have not seen it shown in any movie. This scene would have shown it to some extent and kept some happy and it would have been a flash back, and thus not a event after Prometheus but a event prior... but then it would have had no date and so thus like so much of the movie would be left open to each persons individual interpretation. You see so much of this movie people are taking as there is solid proof and fact with certain things when really there is very little that had been given 100% fact. It all meant to be ambiguous. [b]"The content in the vials is the same as that taken by the Engineer at the beginning of the film, both and only that Engineer and Holloway experienced great pain while black veins crept through their body"[/b] Well again, i dont think we have 100% proof of this, there is clues that could push to that being the case. But we do not see what happens to Holloway and cant say he breaks down into DNA. And we never got to see what happened to Fifield all the way through. We only see Fifield hold his face in agony as the Black Goo melts his mask to his face. The only 100% thing we see as far as the Urns in Prometheus well the ones in that temple are. The substance inside when it comes into contact with a living Organism it mutates that organisms DNA and changes it into a hybrid organism that contains XENO DNA and traits, both physically and mentally (changes there behavior to that of a Xeno or Face Hugger). Fifield does not looks so Xeno, but thats because Ridley chose Toxic Avenger dude over the other concepts which all had more Xeno DNA look to them, so as to reduce the amount of Xeno DNA and save it for the Shaws Baby to Deacon Cycle. Holloway ingests a small amount and it does not apear to break his DNA down, but it may have done so at a slower pace, but what we do see is that it had infected his Sperm to take on Xeno DNA and this thus then lead to Shaws Egg being fertilized and the Embryo inside then taking on more of a Xeno DNA because a Embryo has less fully developed human DNA to rewrite. This to me shows that the Urns contain a substance that contains Xeno DNA and its contact with another life form mutates that lifeforms DNA to take on Xeno DNA traits. This brings me to the Sacrificial Engineer, if the substance he had taken was the same then how come he did not mutate into a Xeno, or indeed how come no Xeno DNA seeded the life on that planet.... the life on that planet Evolved into organisms that contained similar DNA to the Engineer including Mankind. Thats why i therefore believe the substance he had taken breaks down his DNA and this broken down DNA by effect of the substance somehow can then interact with other lifeforms to then allow them to take on Engineer DNA. Was it the beginning of all life..... we dont know and we dont know how long ago either because it never said like 600M years BC or what ever. If you look you can see trees and this is more so in the full deleted scene, now plant life required CO2 which is produced as a bi product from many kinds of living organisms, in Mammals etc it is a bi product of our respiratory system. Maybe this could point to that the Engineer seeded his DNA so that it would then mutate some life on Earth to then Evolve and take on Engineer DNA? I do think the Out Post was created on LV 223 a long time after the events of the Sacrificial Engineer, i also think it was created some time prior to 2000 years ago. As far as the Xeno goes, i think and its just my theory that the Xeno predates the Black Goo in the Urns but they are predated by the substance the Sacrificial Engineer had taken. I think the Mural shows that they sacrificed the Xeno to create the Bio Weapon in the Urns. Hence its Sacrificial pose like that of Christ on the Cross.

As far as the Pilot.... Yes it appears that the Pilot in Alien was 4-5M 12-15ft, The Engineers in Prometheus the concept was for them to be about 9ft tall race. Ridley has not explained the difference in size, but hinted he grew out of his chair, which makes little sense to me. The colour also looks different to the grey colour of the Engineers suits. But i guess as in real life somethings change colour when they die.... Ridley did however say that the orginal Alien Pilot was a Space Suit and that Prometheus was to give us answers of who he was and where did he come from etc. So until Prometheus 2 or 3 shows that the Alien Space Jockey was not a Engineer or Elder in a Suit then i guess i have to go with the idea behind Prometheus. Only one person has that answer and thats Ridley, and until someone asks him and he gives a clear answer then there is no 100% way to say that it was some Elephantine Giant Race, more clues not point to Space Suit but again until Ridley clears up the Space Jockey in Alien we would never 100% know for sure.

@ Red Wolf... The fact the Engineers' DNA "predates ours" does not equate to the goo predating us. It simply means that Engineers themselves predate us (you see, we DO need to know if that planet in the beginning is Earth or not). [b]The scene at the start of the film infers that this is how the Engineers seed life, ergo it is inferring that they did they same thing to Earth at an undisclosed point of time in our planets past. And as a result of evolution selecting which of the Engineers genes become dominant in a given species, gave rise to us. Thus the goo predates us.[/b] "The urns were clearly developed and deployed thousands, not millions of years ago, as exemplified by the cave paintings and stone tablets found by Shaw and Holloway..." Again; I don't recall tehre being any urns depicted in the cave paintings. I'm not sure how you reach the conclusion that if the urns existed, say 35,000 years ago, we'd already be extinguished? The Engineers may have had urns for a long, long time -- just never bombed us with them, no? [b]Had the urns been developed at or before the time of the first visit, depicted in the 35,000 year old cave painting from the Isle of Skye, why would the Engineers have visited us, guiding us to LV-223 knowing they intended to deploy the urns on us and thus destroy us. The urns and their contents were developed to eradicate us, once that decision is made what would be the point of inviting us to LV-223.[/b] If the urns are triggered with atmosphere change, then why wasn't the urn David brought INSIDE the SHIP triggered -- especially when he takes the glass vials out? [b]Firstly because David sprayed it with presumably Liquid Nitrogen, freezing it before placing it into a freezer. And secondly once David had removed the vials from the Urn it could no longer trigger as he had essentially disarmed it by removing one the two ingredients (stored within the vials) necessary to initiate the reaction.[/b] While I am inclined to believe reported quotes from key players like RS, I have heard reports of conflicting statements; therefore I prefer to reply on what's on film. But for sake of argu -- er, DEBATE -- I'll assume from now on that the SJ landed on LV-426 as you/RS say. Still doesn't mean all your "clarifications" hold merit or are logically concluded. [b]Regardless of mine or Ridley Scotts statement, what has been stated is what is considered to be the nature of events by most Alien fans, and those involved in the making of Alien.[/b] Regarding AvP, I actually read on IMDb today that AvP and Requiem are considered PREQUELS to Alien/Aliens/Alien3, etc. First time I had ever heard that, but if true, pretty much confirms that Aliens have been around for eons; so long in fact that Predators raise their young hunting them (NB: I'll try to read the "Canon Debate" thread when I get time). [b]Eons? I don't think so. It clearly says in AVP that the Predators found Earth and taught the Ancient Antarctica people the ways of technology and civilisation 10,000 years ago.[/b] The Deacon doesn't need to "know" there are no hosts on LV-223; the fact is that with no one there to act as host, he cannot bear offspring. Right? [b]What is the point of The Queen laying thousands of eggs underneath LV-426's Atmosphere Processor, when there was only a couple of hundred colonists? The Deacon is intended to be the first of its brood, not the only, thus it must have the means to propagate, hence the egg. It doesn't matter that no-one is around, its called nature.[/b] Good point re Christianity (then again, humans are mindless sheep at times while the Engineers don't seem so). [b]Says who, many on these forums have inferred the belief that the Engineer we see at the end of the movie is a mindless, dumbass soldier sub-caste of the Engineers society. And who's to say they're wrong, he didn't exactly act uber-intelligent.[/b] How does it logically conclude that xenos have only been in existence for thousands of years due to the fact that the Engineers visited us 35k years ago and were only going to destroy us 2000 yrs ago? (shaking my head) It is just as "logical" that they've had xeno DNA for MILLIONS of years and simply decided to destroy us with it when they did, no? [b]If so what did they use the Xenomorph for, for all that time. Walks in the park?[/b] Dude, you and I have veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery different ideas of what a personal insult is. However, lest you overreact and ban me from this site, I'll "try harder" not to offend. [b]I suggest to re-read your posts directed towards me or in response to mine, your insults have been clear. I am not known for over-reacting in my position of staff, and have shown leniency with your insults, but a persons leniency can only go so far.[/b]

"Infers"? I agree it INFERS what you say. But "infers" -- to my mind -- does not reach or constitute the smug "clarification" category you stated. ============================ It need not necessarily mean the E's intended to destroy us simply because the urns existed; nor is there ANY evidence that they created the urns to be used on us. For example, the USA has countless nuclear weapons, yet I don't think we intend to wipe out, say, Switzerland -- unless, of course, the Swiss DO something that makes us want to -- which it SEEMS occurred in re the E's and humans. Further, LV-223 may have been a different planet (meaning NOT a weapons cache) back when they "invited" humans to visit them (NB: no one has established that they ever invited us to LV-223; those drawings may have been a map to where they're FROM; Shaw says "I THINK it's an invitation" -- and we both know she "chooses" to believe what she wants to believe). ============================= Though I've admitted the SJ/Jugg tale (that he crash-landed due to emergency) may be right, the rest of your "clarifications" are pure conjecture. ============================= 10k years or eons; po-tA-to/po-ta-to. See definition #1 at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eon?s=t ============================= How do you know the Deacon is intended to be "the first of its brood"? Did I miss that in the pre-printed program? And again, how does it have offspring with no hosts? Are you saying it has a baby asexually; that a baby eventually emerges from the so-called egg it's carrying? If so -- WITHOUT ANY HOSTS -- they are both doomed to die (according to you, in a few days, like the orginal alien in Alien). =============================== I was referring to the Engineer race as a whole. Of course we'll have to wait-n-see if there are any "good ones" left when David/Shaw reach their destination... =============================== And who says that E's "used" the xenos for anything for years and years? Do human "use" snakes for anything? No. We may use SOME from time to time for food, shoes, purses and anti-venom. But by-n-large we simply exist with them. No different for the E's and the xenos: the E's use them, their DNA, whatever WHEN THEY NEED TO; otherwise, the simply co-exist. ============================== The bottom line is, YOU initially started a good portion of this thread with an "Allow me to clarify some things for you, fellas" comment and I simply pointed out to you that while a small portion of what you say may be fact, the vast majority of it was PURE SPECULATION on your part. And that's still the case, brotha.

I agree with you @Engineer on every word you said. Some people on this site are either very ignorant or not very bright. The original Space Jockey had been dead for at least over a hundred thousand years when Dallas, Lambert and Kane found him sitting in his chair mumified. Mr. Scott has said it himself that Prometheous is not a prequel. Why do people still come on this site either complaining about Prometheous not leading up to Alien, or Prometheous not having Xenos in it. The film has nothing to do with the Xenos. The movie is about humans searching for there creators. By the way I do agree that the original Space Jockey if not, should be an elephantine type alien. It would be a chilling thought, and a macbre twist to the franchise.

Why cant we all just get along?

@ Red wolf... There is no evidence that the Engineers intended to use the urns on us, hmmm. I seem to recall a Juggernaut piloted by an Engineer heading for Earth towards the end of Prometheus, in fact that was pretty clear. had they had the urns sooner there is no reason they would have not used them sooner. Geologically, an Eon is much greater than 10,000 years in length. How do I know the deacon is the first of its brood, was it born from a traditional Facehugger, NO. Did it come into being from the existence of a Queen, NO. Therefore, as many have speculated and presumed the Deacon is the first of its brood, because it came into existence with no Deacon before it. And to propagate it needs to reproduce, so unless its Queen, then one would presume the leathery object it is carrying is an egg. for the Xenomorphs to just exist they require hosts, without said hosts they cannot just exist. Their very form of propagation suggests, nay dictates, that they were not only created by the Engineers but used as a weapon/tool to eradicate indigenous populations. Xenomorphs cannot just exist in waiting, they have to be used or die out. The bottom line is I added to this thread with some logical deductions to aid those trying to unravel the puzzle that is Prometheus. What you have done is latched onto my posts and attempted to argue every point I have made rather than read, listen to and apply the deductions I have made to yours and everybody else's theories and speculations. And in doing so have thrown numerous insults and assumed me to a big-headed know it all. Yes I stated that I had clarifications for those partaking in this thread, and should they check my posts, and read my threads, especially regards the Black Liquid, they would realize I am not just throwing up random what ifs, but actual decoding the puzzles of this movie.

Thats right @Snorkelbottom, tell them all what you think.