Saving the Story

I completely agree Void, I missed that fright as well. The eerieness of Alien was SOOO very much lacking in Prometheus. IMO Prometheus was more of a space comedy than a scary Alien film. Too force fed, and clean. Could have delved a little deeper, hopefully the dvd/bluray will give us some horror to look forward too!

@Mala'kak Yeah good points. i do hope Prometheus 2 however does not explore the Xeno or Goo, i mean my theory connects the Goo in the Urns coming from re-weaponizing the Xeno so the Urns contain Xeno DNA. And thus hopefully we dont see any Xeno DNA Urns apart from whats on LV 223 and no Xeno Eggs as they are all stuck on LV 426. As Ridley said there is a massive scope for the Engineer race and can explore them away from the Xeno.... Mankind has invented the Car, but if we had movies about Cars all shapes and sizes would it not be more interesting to do movies about other things Mankind created and not just cars? My point being that the Urns in the Temple had to be a mix of Xeno and Goo the Sacrificial Engineer had taken, the actual stuff the Engineer at the start of the movie drank contained no Xeno DNA and i dont think Xenos could come from it unless it was mixed with a Xeno. So that means we can explore more about the Engineers, their culture their history and the many other things they could have created.... As Ridley said the scope is massive, its just like saying the Engineers could had created as many different races as we see in the Star Trek Universe. I do think at some point he will explain the connection between the Xeno, the Temple, the Mural and the Urns and how they all link and came to be. But i think he would save that for a small part of Prometheus 3 as that movie touches upon the creation and fall of LV 223 and its purpose/agenda.

far as the Aliens go I think this franchise is all about using some of those unused/old ideas, and reworking them in novel ways that work with where the series is headed; focusing on the original morphing cycle that Ridley created. Possibly a reason for the outbreak: the genetics reverted to the morphing cycle, it was broken down by the black liquid to a controllable form, and was able to grow out of the Engineers' control through recombination when procedure was broken or foreign elements were introduced either by accident or sabotage. The Engineers didn't know the genetics could take traits from the hosts/substrate after they'd been broken down by the goo. The goo was a way to keep the alien genetics in check and to deploy it as a semi-manageable weapon. But like in the unused alien 3 script an outbreak eventually happens to the Engineers because this fire is too dangerous to play with. When a break in their normal routine with the goo/xeno genetics causes the outbreak, it allows the genetics to recombine in a way the Engineers fear/worship. Returning the genetics to an almost pure form by the end of the film when we see it. David mixed the wrong ratio with the goo. Like when the outbreak happened these xenos rely even more on the morphing properties the morphing life cycle shares with the black goo.. It may be totally reliant on morphing to separate the Deacon and the Alien of this series from the other breed that's derived from the same common ancestor. Through their meddling with the fire and attempt to weaponize it, the Engineers only made it a deadlier form of the fire... Zeus would be pissed. Which is why they were most likely at war with the Elder engineers...or rebelled against them after some form of serving them followed by punishment (having similarities to a number of groups from mythology). There may have been a traitor on LV-223. The black goo kept the alien genetics in check, but the genetics were able to grow through stages, uses organic material to attempt to mutate, breakdown other material and reform its own genetics by mutating things on a cellular level(like in the unused alien 3 script). The broken down genetics moves through other organisms and life-cycles of other organisms, mutating Holloway's sperm in one instance and then rejuvenating the dead cells in Shaw's egg to reach its almost ancestral form. The kicker is these xenos can morph dead material quite readily, as seen by what happens to Fifield. He was dead... before being brought back to life as a xeno mutant. We know from the concepts what he was sort of turning into originally, but I think that would have been too similar to that unused concept and they don't want to go all the way with it in Prometheus. In the sequel we may see more morphing done by the deacon so it makes more sense when people are changed into things. There's hints to the mutation plot from one of the unused alien 3 scripts running through the movie, but thankfully they didn't go all the way with it. However those ideas have been morphed almost beyond recognition. In that script it was the air that infected the humans. In this movie the idea of it being in the air is brought up, but we know from what David does/says and the quality of the air that it wasn't airborne, like in that unused script. The idea of the infection being airborne is a slight nod to that script, as well as Vickers' character, the idea of weaponizing the alien further, + many other things within the movie. The experimenting aspect is mainly carried by the engineers, but a little bit by David/Weyland who want the black liquid. The Engineers are the ones weaponizing the alien and created a more weaponized form of the alien genetics through the goo in the past, by forcing it to be broken down and kept in a constant state. When the outbreak happened it began to share more properties with the goo i.e. morphing/breaking down and reprogramming organic material for a new purpose (a trait which the goo may have originally got from the alien genetics, it's unclear because both have the potential to pass on traits to what they breakdown and recreate but the eggs are most likely older than the urns) I would bet my life savings there will be more aliens in the series, but they've been altered by what the Engineers have done to the original genetics. So these aren't what we're used to and they couldn't give that totally away in Prometheus. Now they're literally living death, with a more infectious form of reproduction and ability to breakdown/regenerate/recombine based on the goo and the original life-cycle. It's about death and resurrection, but sometimes to create something new you have to destroy the old thing. Or completely morph it beyond recognition, by breaking it down and rebuilding it according to a new plan. Using the biology of a species/other living elements to rewrite itself on the genetics.. For this series that means more of a reboot while not being a reboot because of the direct connections forming to the original series. A hybrid series of old and new ideas. A prequel and not a prequel. An alien movie, and a movie about the Engineers and their wars. However this is a story that runs parallel and can help fill in some of the gaps... Did you know that the Space Jockey was mentioned again for the first time in that unused alien 3 script? Fox has definitely had some ambition to go back to that idea again. Only Ridley found something else he wanted to do with that idea, which was to make them ancient aliens. Ridley wanted to reuse old ideas like the Jockey in a new way, and some ideas were most likely thrown in by Fox and improved by Ridley not overdoing it. Some fans might not like Ridley wanting to do things in slightly new ways right now because we didn't get a 16 ft Jockey, but I think some of the changes made are very purposeful. In a way Ridley doesn't want to simply reuse ideas, he wants to improve on them. To build on them and extrapolate those original ideas or use variations of them e.g. the jockey being a suit, the derelict being a bomber, and the morphing cycle. As well no one needs to see a queen again but if Fox feels we need to see something similar built on the morphing cycle that comes before a queen, and is the preferred method of the deacon, then I can tell you what we'll be seeing will be leaning on the male side genetically, like the Engineers. It was born from Shaw before being born of the uber male Engineer, so it has a mixture of both traits, but leans heavily on the male side. Also originally morphing Holloway's sperm and only rejuvenating/morphing Shaw's egg. The eggs may be a part of it eventually, but lets not forget all the thematic links to kings they've been making. "A king has his reign and then he dies... it's inevitable" Everything will eventually reach its end. Even if it's a slightly unstable form of the fire/Alien genetics that relies on a male side of the life-cycle in the absence of a queen.. A majority of us would like to see the original egg morphing cycle. I think it could be done with the way things are going. After the king dies.. I'm not saying the sequels are going to be only about the Aliens. It'll be a healthy mix of races (no Predators!!). I'm saying Prometheus was just the small beginning to something much bigger. Like many of David's statements "big things have small beginnings" holds multiple meanings in the film and even beyond it. On one level it's almost a statement by the filmmakers. Once we look back on it after Paradise and realize how wrong we were about Prometheus it'll all make sense. It also applies to David's plans in Prometheus and beyond, how the goo/genetics work, + aliens much bigger than most aliens we've seen because of a weird form of alternating sexual dimorphism we didn't know existed in the alien life-cycle. Prometheus was our small reintroduction to this universe and a story that runs parallel to Alien/Aliens. We've still got to see how Weyland and Yutani join together. Every fiber in my being tells me this will happen sometime and if Lindelof hadn't signed on we would have probably seen it already. But you know I think it's better that they're mixing old and new ideas, reusing ideas in ways we won't have seen, and moving away from what the Alien became towards another side of the life-cycle that hasn't really been explored. There's more than a couple things that indicate that Fox was fed ideas about returning to the morphing cycle during Alien 3. They never really went with those ideas, but I believe they're now willing to let Ridley expand on that idea for this series. As a result some very minor influences from that one unused alien 3 script are seen in Prometheus, and i can tell you that it's Fox trying to make sure Ridley doesn't steer entirely away from their cash cow. They seem to be fine with him using old ideas in new ways. Doing new and old things at the same time with the old/relatively untouched concepts. Like the way the Space Jockey became something slightly different but still retains the traits of the original jockey. However, there could be a way that these Engineers and the Deacon are both species that are only evolutionarily related to the original Jockey and the Alien genetics respectively..

Well, I like your line of thoughts. The only thing I am not in agreement is dealing with xenos again...were they daring enough they would really make the Engineers story the real important thing, making the xenos a side note only important because it happened in the first movie (movie...I still prefer to put Aliens and all sequels aside...) a weapon like a bomb, but nly a tiny part of what is really going on in the wider Galaxy... The concept could be thrilling/scarier than anthing previusly seen. Here we could se them using Lovecraftian ideas, like humans really being created by the Engineers, who in their turn are among the Elder's Races of the Galaxy, locked in some great conflict with someone even greater than themselves. Remember the first images we see...the ritualistic way Earth was seeded (I do think it was Earth, and that would imply that those images were from millions of years in the past) denotes that they are a culture dominated by rituals, some very cruel (a technology that advanced would not require a true life sacrifice...dumping a specific virus would have done the same without that painful sacrifice, or even more effectively as you could have sent thousands of automated drones to seed the planet) so they are alien and ritualistic...and who knows what kind of civilization would be that...something under the control of beings like the Old Ones from Lovecraft works? That could explain also that after millions of years a splinter, service species (Engineers) could be at war with their masters, fighting a foe so much bigger and powerful that we have not seen it yet, but some of their works are known (Xenos) and struggling to control/reverse engineer one of their master's creation to use in their fight. The SJ seen in Alien on the derelict ship is not the same (suit or not, it is clearly different...very unlike a suit actually) and maybe it was not an Engineer, but one of the True Elders (naming for the sake of this argument) who they try to emulate due their culture and situation (hate and admiation after millions of yeas of servitude) and the eggs at that ship were a true xeno shipment and the ones on Promeheus are the Engineers attempt to recreate/control it. Maybe that was why Earth would be a tactical target on such a huge conflict. It could have been converted into a huge troops depot by the True Elders in their conflict...and such would not be desirable it is not true? The Galactic enviroment humans exist could be something maddeningly akin to the universe Lovecraft depicted...vast, cold, uncaring for human logic and locked in conflicts beyond common logic understanding... That would make the xenos a side note, and the Engineers a stepping stone to something bigger, like pointing to the True giant Space Jockey and his original mission.... Something I would like to see is humans finding the true originator species to the xenos, and finding them as an intelligent, technological species locked in combat with whoever control the Engineers or the Engineers themselves being the villains...the strife to try and contact humans....the fear, and ultimatelly becoming allies able to fight alongside humans against a common, terrible foe bent on controlling // altering life just for their pleasure and crazy culture. Anyone here ever read Larry Niven's Heoroth series? Beowulf's Children in particular? He depicts a creature more feasible and even scarier than any xeno, and yet, in the final book, one of those terrible creatures (the grendels) proves itself just part of the ecossystem they are living in, and actually an intelligent (trully intelligent) ally that would walk side by side with humans to explore the universe...I really loved that book and its end, especially that no one would see it coming after the first book in the series, as the grendels were true killing machines. Aha, fancy thoughts...and the true sequel might be nothing like we think/discuss/imagine...but one thing is clear, the aestethics ad possibilities opened by Prometheus could lead to something a lot more complex and interesting than any xenos or morphing things...

Mala'kak What trademarks do brandywine own ? Only the alien creature ? If Ridley only tells the story of the xenomorph origins and no actual xenomorph scenes would Ridley able to do as he please without the consent of brandywine ? Is that maybe what ridley is trying to do ? Snorks ? Thanks

I hope they do not get locked by any "rights" claims... That killed many movies/animes/series in the past...and some were so good... And killing I mean both actually preventing them to be done and also killing plots and stories just to accomodate "rights'' and such... Well...

Some interesting ideas.... Ridley did however state that the Alien Space Jockey was a brother to the Engineer in Prometheus so i think the Engineer and Space Jockey are the same race. However lets look at the Typical Human they stand what 5ft10" but can be a small as 4-5ft or as tall as 7-8ft. Thus the Average Human would stand about 5.5ft tall. Now the smallest a Engineer appears is the last Engineer who appears to be 7.5ft tall now the idea was the Race Stood about 9-10ft tall and the concept work depicted them from about 8-12ft as the imagery they varied a bit. So its not beyond the realms of possibility that the Engineers could be 7-15ft Tall just as mankind can be 4.5-7.5 feet tall. The Actors who played the Engineer in Ghost Scene and Last Engineer stand 7ft1" and 7ft3" these are tall Humans, Fifield and Holloway actors stand under 6ft so are about average. so there is no reason why the Alien Space Jockey could be just the Ian Whyte of the Engineer Race and the Last Engineer the Michael J Fox of the Engineer race.

Very true...height differences would be possible, and with an alien species who knows... the ratio could be a lot different, even allowing the differences between the SJ in the first movie and the ones from this one. Taking an idea from MACROSS, the ancient galactic rulers (Protoculture) created the Zentraedi as a battle force, giants to battle their wars against any treat to their rule , using their DNA to creat the giant warriora, so why not the Engineers could not have created a race of giants to be their army soldiers, thus the pilot from the bomber on the firts movie being a giant even comparing to the Engineers we see on Prometheus..that would be smart as they are master biotechnicians. Engineers are the masters, and the Space Jockeys are their warrior force. That would explain the first one found by the Nostromo, following what RS himself said. * (Ah, the citation is from MACROSS and not the travesty Robotech, please. MACROSS has a great science fiction plot and is still alive to this day, and I am a hard die fan of that series) Even the obvious differences between the one in the fitst movie and the biosuots presented on Prometheus could be explained by that...and yet it does make space for ideas...but I know in the end they will not do what we want nor expect...but yet the mind exercise is always fun. I aknowledge RS is already saying his thoughts, but yet tying so much already does close some interesting venues, and I also am aware that sometimes the creative mind behind a very good concept can destroy it as easily...take Arthur C. Clark's with 2001....the concept and execution at first was awesome and transcending...but with his own hand he destroyed and make mundane and cheap everything with 3001, leveling completely his whole concept by explaining everything and even contradicting his own work with the explanations from 3001 (horrible, simply horrible)...so I am not as a fan as to think RS himself could not easily level his own concept. It is his right anyway, but saddens a bit nonetheless. I was very harsh and unforgiving on my review of 3001, and I do recognize it now, but I keep my opinion it was horrible...but back to the subject. So the SJ in the first movie is an Engineer as well, all right. A biosit of different design...all right. The eggs are different, all right. So lets see what it will come to pass then. In the book there was no body in that chanber, just a box sending the message, and the podes were mettalic if I correct remember it. The ship was there for an undefined lenght of time, so it could have crashed decades or aeons ago. By Prometheus it could have been there for at least 2000 years, as the ship design is exactly the same althoug the biosuit is not. Ah, one loophole here, the whole commanding seat is way bigger in the downed Juggernaut...so they make adjustments for every individual? Not pratical in millitary standards, but they are an alien culture, and the whole chair comes from inside the chamber...it could have at least two different sizes to accomodate variations then... I like details and I am almost sure these will be overlooked or forgotten, but it is a pitty as details make the differences at times, although making the eggs at that ship leathery and the ones at the base metallic is way too much to just forget. They will explain that surelly, or else the continuity will be just childish. I am always fearfull of sequels, and more often than not they blunder, but at times they do great as in MATRIX or in Lord of the Rings, so there is hope, if they take it seriously. They created a really interesting plot here, going possibly way beyond the simple monster movie so I have hopes, but I am also fearful. At least visually we can expect a real trip...but aside that we better keep tight and wait.