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the books in Vickers' room?

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Custodian

MemberOvomorphOct-06-2012 2:19 PM
[img]http://www.fazioli.co.jp/blog/images/153.jpg[/img] see those books, there's not a single spine showing from what should be the Focal Point of the room i.e. piano side. "What's that all about? What is it saying about Vickers' personality?"
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphOct-07-2012 1:55 AM
Hmmm hadn't noticed this when I watched that scene, which is a great scene btw. More data must be assessed. Love how Vickers is trembling and they share a drink but it's not coffee and when Janek comes in he plays the piano. I think it's because they both know how messy the situation that they're in might be and they shouldn't be there waking the sleeping giant. It shows that Janek knows the responsibilities of leading have their disadvantages and sympathizes with Vickers because he thinks she's the one in control of the mission at this point and made the right choice logically. Like what Ripley tried to do by not letting Kane in but taking it to an extreme because Vickers is not really in control and only pretends to be in control (operates partially under false ego) like Fifield and Millburn. They both may feel the entire crew are foolish for being there and can't see the obvious security risks. which is why Vickers tries to control the situation but David and Weyland are really in control. I also like seeing how Janek was watching the Engineer stuff and when Vickers and David were prepping Weyland to be woken he asks about who they're waking up and David says that's none of your business. It's because Janek has already given up controlling things but has natural intuitive and logical leadership characteristics from his time in the military. But he didn't always like some of the choices he had to makes, so he made the choice to be on this corporate ship. Which he thought was safer. He's just as uneasy about being in the middle of the danger as Vickers, but has natural traits and experiences that almost allow him to assess what is really going on more than any other character explicitly makes mention of. Janek and Vickers may both hide the fact that they don't like making the tough calls, so they share a drink. But someone has to make the tough calls, and Janek is slightly better at balancing logic and intuition than Vickers is. SO this sets up Janek to make the sacrifice Vickers is unwilling to in the end, because she is not really in control of the chaos. I think it's because she's operating under a false ego/has ego problems, or an inability to live up to the image she puts out. Which is one of someone who is very cold and in control, when under the surface she is more afraid than anyone else. And still has a problem showing real emotions or even accomplishing the fight or flight responses like everyone else on the crew minus Shaw. Vicker's actions in the end show she was never fit to lead. By her running straight ahead without thinking, and not making lateral movements/doing lateral thinking and not trusting her intuition + logic she secures her own demise. In a different way than Weyland. She reacts in the incorrect way at the end by not seeing other possibilities and running to the side. Instead she panics and her nerves finally get the best of her. Proving she was never meant to be a leader of Weyland corp, because she doesn't have the right "stuff". I think this ties into the thing with all the books in some way, but I'm not completely sure how. It could be Janek is like an open book who shows you what he means/is all about in the most straightforward way throughout the movie. Vicker's is not so open (part of the agenda and doesn't want the agenda to succeed), and only portrays herself a certain way. So she's like backwards from Janek in a way. She hides her emotions, tries not to show the true nature of her "spine" and portrays herself a certain way. Even more so than Fifield and Millburn, while being better at faking control, because she makes it almost to the end. This would tie into David hiding his own views of things, and the fact he secretly has more emotion than all the characters, minus Shaw and now I'm really thinking Janek because of how much we can learn about him with the deleted scenes. He gave up control and only want to act in the end because he knows hard choices would have to be made, and he was secretly hoping Vickers could do what needed to be done and he could form a bond with her. He's nothing like her though, but he thinks she's like him... and Shaw/David would be the only other competent somewhat balanced characters in terms of rationality and irrationality, and instinct/belief and logic. Janek may be hoping she is actually a robot working against what's really going on, because he knows she wants them to be wrong. He would almost prefer there to be another truly competent and intelligent leader of the company on board. If you can't be with the one you want, love the one your with. At that time Janek was convinced that robot or not she had the right stuff to make the correct decisions later in the story, and thus was attracted to her. He could have been gathering more data about her to know if he would eventually have to step up and make choices. When David tells Janek it's none of his business who they're waking it's because it's above Janek's current paygrade and duties. However by this point Janek can't just sit back and can't help but get involved and look into things. Making the ultimate sacrifice for what he believes is the greater good. Something Vickers runs away from, even though she tried to act this way earlier.

Sentinel

MemberOvomorphOct-07-2012 2:34 AM
In other words, Vickers is a spineless, open book. Whatever she does, she will have to face the music.

Custodian

MemberOvomorphOct-07-2012 3:04 AM
I'm not sure it's THAT basic, but the ABOUT FACED BOOKS are done for a very prominent psychological reason. The implication (for me) is SHE'S ALL SHOW i.e. doesn't read the books she has, doesn't practise what she preaches. Do as VIckers says, not as VIckers does - i.e. she's a [b]coward[/b].
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphOct-07-2012 4:30 AM
Love how you worded that Sentinal, I think It's a combination of what you and Custodian are saying: that only somethings can be taken at face value with Vickers, because she hides her true emotions and what she's all about partially by turning things backwards. Vickers wants to see Weyland die instead of live, her agenda. She's really the spineless side of the book with her pages partially showing (the trembling & letting us know some of her agenda). They all remain on her shelves, unopened. With their covers hidden by being placed backwards. It could be this symbolizes her cold emotionless act, because she has some real emotions too centered mainly around fear and dislike for her father-- seen mainly when she interacts with David. So maybe it's a lesson about not judging a book by its cover in a way. By judging it by its pages: its actions. Able to be picked up and read, although trying not to face the music by making it harder to get a sense of what each book is really all about. But like I said you can't always judge a book by its cover. There are some pretty deep psychological elements to the film I think there are a lot of slight Jungian and Freudian influences on the movie + other ideas from psychology that come into play. Some of the stuff about the subconscious. People sometimes subconsciously reveal things when they are analyzing ambiguous evidence, because they project some of themselves into their view of what they are seeing. This is why Rorschach tests are believed to reveal things about the viewers' inner feelings, drives, subconscious desires and beliefs. It could also be really important to why Weyland corp gives the David's that sort of a test. The strange patterns and shapes cause the viewer to draw comparisons to things they may be feeling inside and unlikely, or are unaware of enough, to reveal. The movie itself has been riddled with such ambiguous clues and strange patterns. Allowing the viewer to choose what they believe the patterns represent. Here is the difference though: with the patterns in the movie there is a very deliberate purpose to the broken patterns and scattered ambiguous clues. An intent to make us lean towards certain shapes over others in the ambiguous presentation. Leading us back to the it's not ALWAYS good to judge a book by its cover thing. Sometimes the cover may tell you exactly what the book is all about because there's not much deeper meaning to the title. Here in Prometheus there is deeper meaning and possible hidden meaning EVERYWHERE. Making the patterns harder to analyze and choose what they might represent. Although like Freud said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" and certain pieces of evidence can almost completely be taken at face value as what they appear to be. E.g. the Alien in the mural. We don't know exactly how it fits in the overall puzzle, but that's what it is and we can make our hypotheses. Certain things David says have to be true, but because of how he says things this gives some wiggle room for what his true intent could be. Janek is our cigar character. He tells things just as they are, or as close as he can get to them from his perspective. He really has no hidden motives that he makes a bone about not-displaying at least and does what he says. He lets Millburn and Fifield know he's not overlooking the situation anymore and resigns control of it for a little while.

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphOct-07-2012 5:12 AM
The sometimes a cigar is just a cigar thing is tricky to apply to this movie because it also applies to the fact that some things may only look like clues. One or two minor things may have been purposely planted to look like clues, when really they hold no deeper meaning. There could be a two sides of the same coin theme running though this too. The problem is this might or might not be the case with some of the stuff we're looking at like what we have here. It could be a clue or it might not be. And even the clues/evidence we do have could go many ways. There very well could be a deeper meaning that ties into all of the other layers of hidden meaning and adds to them. Or it means nothing and we can move on from analyzing this piece of evidence. However, I don't think it's a waste of time looking into what this may mean because the way a person chooses to decorate their surrounds could definitely reflect the persons beliefs, inner feelings & conflicts, or even their subconscious desires and clues about themselves. Without them knowing it. So the way Vickers chose to decorate her space definitely could be a projection of herself into her physical surroundings. Or, as I said it could mean nothing and it's just there as something that could be taken as a clue-- but isn't really. Because I think there are a few of those dead end clues in the movie to add to the mystery of the unanswered questions. Have I looked too deep into Prometheus for all the potential clues and how they might all connect? If I have I've found that only a very few things don't seem to fit an overall framework and could be dead end clues. And the thing is I really believe that a lot of the movie can't be taken at face value, or towards any of the obvious conclusions. While some pieces of individual evidence and some of the possible clues can. Or might be connected to what's going on. If we take things only at face value when dealing with unknowns we end up going towards some of the most likely explanations without analyzing all the evidence. This is one flaw of occam's razor. If you don't assess all of the evidence, and all of the evidence for validity; then the simplest explanation may not explain everything. The science becomes flawed. Like when hypotheses are influenced by too much intuition, emotion, or personal belief going into the theory/thesis. We end up being wrong sometimes-- like Shaw was with the star map. By taking the evidence in one of the likely ways and denying some of the potential evidence or alternate possibilities/interpretations. We have to work through each piece of evidence individually, and then look for the simplest solutions and connections to any existing patterns. And if you think about it for a sec it could even be the reason why the deleted scenes, adding deeper meaning for some, have to be accessed and analyzed separately on the Blu-ray.

zzplural

MemberOvomorphOct-07-2012 11:18 AM
Was there an alcove behind the books, perhaps, where the titles can be seen?
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent

Custodian

MemberOvomorphOct-07-2012 2:15 PM
ZZ, looks to me like just some sort of semi-translucent back-scattering-lighting effect ... don't you think this looks like a real odd thing to do, design-wise? It's kinda SCARY - in light of Prometheus's symbolic aura.
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...

Cerulean Blue

MemberFacehuggerOct-08-2012 3:00 PM
Did Weyland live on the other side where the spines/titles of the books could be seen? Vickers shared the space with Weyland, right?

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphOct-08-2012 3:29 PM
Good point, he is hidden in there somewhere isn't he?
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