Comments (Page 631)

Covenant

whats ur source? I haven't got the blu ray so haven't seen any of the extras so if there is something there I genuinely am not aware but if there is material that states it is indeed a shield then makes things even more interesting about the planet

that's the reason I think the same, there is more than one form of it

Because those were two different forms of the pathogen. The type that infected the temple worms and Fifield was the mutation version.

We never see Milburn get infected by the black pathogen, so to speak. It appears the hammerpede just killed him. His dead tissue looks pretty messed up though.

In the script the Engineers had a planetary shield set up to prevent things entering or leaving their planet, run by two satellites orbiting the poles. Sort of a quarantine barrier. The Covenant crew think it is just an extremely strong ionosphere, but when they fly through it it kills the ships power temporarily and they find it messes up communication to and from the planet. It may also be what hid the planet from the Weyland Yutani when they were searching for a habitable planet to colonize.

It also drains the power to the Covenant, causing the orbit to decay. When activated, once you get to the planet, you can never leave, which is why David was trapped there and needed to lure a passing ship for help. Presumably it was activated when the Engineers were bombed by David.

They had to destroy a satellite to take out the shield and restore communication and power to the Covenant. If you watch the movie, there are still little bits of this plot line left in there, but all the shield and satellite stuff was removed to make the whole storm and communication blackout cause vague.

Carry on! Haha so far, this is very clear cut (again)! IRaptus pretty much hit the nail on the head!

Ripley had her story told nicely through three films (and the fourth sort of spinoff added to it without ruining it... If you look at it in an optimistic way) 

David has his trilogy (possible quadrilogy. David may even perish in a third film and the fourth would be similiar to Resurrection in it's continuation, but distance) and then after a few years and once there is a plan in place (continuity and decision making can't jump all over the place) Fox can set out to make a new trilogy or a connected universe type of deal. 

kethol, what shield?

Prometheus! I have grown to love what Covenant is, but I can't not watch Prometheus!

I really enjoyed reading this, very well written.

The quote "A prey that gives birth to its predator" really struck me.  I've never seen the host/xeno relationship referred to in this manner, but it almost has a morbid sense of beaty to it.  If the quote wasn't borrowed, I'd say you nailed it perfectly.

I know that wasn't what you were looking for an opinion on, but wanted to share.

ingeniero, if u mean the olive branch message that I believe is after the events of covenant. in the message is his visual catalogue of experiments which includes daniels and the sleeping colonists when he states something like 'I now have plenty of subjects' or something to that effect.

although prometheous is slightly better, alien covenant is more entertaining so covenant. love them both though. prometheous would probably get an 8.5/10 and alien covenant would get an 8/10.

cheers, great reviews by the way everyone

Prometheus every day and twice on sunday. I have prometheus on blu ray, wont be buying covenant

we also don't see any motes or insect like organisms flying out of the goo when the goo spills out of the urns in Prometheus. it looks just like a liquid goo. more inconsistancies as if there were, why didn't they go for milburn and fifield? plus looking at how quickly they envelope the sacrificial engineer and the engineers on planet 4, the whole crew who entered the room would have been infected. so why wernt they? 

David always wanted to create, so they Engineers gave him a whole planet to experiment. The inhabitants of Paradise were of no use for them anymore, and as such expendable. A good source of dna samples though.

Thombach, this is how John Logan described the mote-insects in the leaked Alien: Covenant script.

"And we focus on one of the INSECTS hovering near him...
MACRO VIEW: It’s watchful, careful. It settles near Ledward’s ear, and then enters the ear canal... the soft pink flesh... quickly
attaches itself -- a feeding tube plunging into his flesh--"

"She gently bats at a cloud of INSECTS in front of her face. A haze of little mote-like MIDGES in the dappled sunlight. And we see one of the insects--
MACRO VIEW: Ever-changing in its form -- lurching and stabbing into new shapes -- oily black but beautiful ... It hovers, has intelligence."

Saying "ever changing in it's form" and into new shapes sounds like the original idea may have been to have individual particles of the black liquid form into a flying shape to make itself mobile in air. Another part of the script indicates the actual insect version came later, after the bombing.

The black fluid forms into hooked and curved spike-like tendril shapes when it erupts out the the Engineers in the bombing sequence, so I suppose they kept some of that shape-change aspect in the movie.

I think that putting together Prometheus and Covenant , we have all the elements to go this route. The idea is David is working for the Engineers (the real ones), because unlike humans, the engineers promised to reward him making him their equal.

(My theory)The engineers have always had this symbiotic relationship with the xenomorph. They are so connected with each other that their DNA is intertwined and cannot be edited. The black goo is basically the product  of the many recombinations of their dna with that of many other species, which they have developed in the hopes to find the perfect host for the xenomorph race. Trial and error. They have enough scientific evidence indicating that it is possible for them to break free from their dependence on the xenomorph by attaching it to another species. They believe, based on their science/religion, that another older race (probably the bird like creature in the murals)have achieved this before. Their "horrific agenda" is actually just their passport for the next stage of their evolution. David quotes HP Lovecraft “That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die”, hinting at this horrific agenda that you mention. But it is very tricky because the xenomorph really has to be part of the collective psyche of the species it's gonna latch onto. They need to be a voluntary, accepting victim, otherwise it won't work. So they also have to visit their children, prepare them.

All this can perfectly connect with the first Alien and go beyond with a war between Engineers and the Human race.

Got it. Thanks.

I hate Covenant, so Prometheus for me.

Ahhh, so someone at Fox goofed up and the had to pull the video to fix it! Funny.

@Kethol

Thanks. I knew it was in the commentary. So the goo can mutate humans and animals into larger and more dangerous versions, or infect them with an embryo that grows into an insect or neo-xeno thing. But it can also infect and form shapes on its own, as you shows in the screen caps of the bombing?

There is some revealing information in John Logan's Alien: Covenant script. Another bit of info giving credence to the "many forms" of the pathogen theory.

"They were as ingenious with their pathogens as they were with everything else. It was designed to infect every living being. Either kill them outright, or mutate into a different lethal form" - David

Plural, not singular. 'Kill outright' or 'mutate' are two forms, but he also says there were 'many forms that were extremely mutable' in the movie. In the script he says "The pathogen took so many forms, and was extremely mutable."

Also, this interesting but about the insect motes.

"The original black liquid turned to lethal particles when exposed to air. Later stages produced parasites and invasive insects. From their eggs came, well... this enviable bestiary."

So the insect variety came later.

Thank you for your answer. Even I think so, but I wanted to add David's death, he will not die by the hand of his creation but because of the Engineers' creation. The human project.                                 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Great video & great analysis!!

Very interesting and very well written ;)

Some seems in part like what i was touching upon with regards to some ideas that HR Giger had, and i do think going the route that the Engineers were part of a Sacrificial Horrific Agenda and they created Mankind as a means to replace them in this role so they would be free from such Toil... is something i think FOX should consider.

Not sure if this is what you was hinting at though as i could have misinterpreted your work a little...  As it appears you could be hinting at some Pact David could enter with the Engineers.

I do think this is something they could have explored, where David makes a Covenant with the Engineers, where Dr Shaw is used as part of this Pact... and she would be used to a Horrific Agenda... which by taking part in, she would Truly get the Answers she was seeking.

In part this is where i was hoping a Prometheus 2 would take us, and in part its one of the 2-3 ways i was going to explore the whole Creation Agenda and connection to the Xenomorph in the Prometheus 2 draft i worked on but abandoned.

Jonesy what was finally the point of Charlize Theron being in Prometheus? 

Ms. Vickers was an android and will be sent by Weyland-Yutani to confront David in the next movie?

Prometheus!

And who runs this series? Fox or the director?

There is no way I'd direct a film.....Fox would be in way...It'd be Fox's vision not mine. Why would any director want that!?

It's why Cameron made Avatar...His series....He has 100% control. Probably too late for Ridley to start his own 'Avatar'.

lol joylitt, I still love Prometheus, but sometimes I feel the dialogue a little bit stupid. The film creates a bigger universe and timeline which I really appreciate. However, as a movie viewing experience, I enjoy Covenant more. 

Thanks for sharing...

Interesting read i had to stop half way as i got to shoot out some place but will have a good look latter.

This saved the Blu Ray purchase for me. The deleted scenes were absolutely pointless in my opinion. They didn't need to film any of them in the first place.

That rant aside... Advent was a welcome addition. As far as the Engineer's "wolf" is concerned... I think David may have been referring to the original xenos? I think the guy in the video was referring to the Engineers found in Prometheus who were tasked with the distribution of the black goo, but I don't see why David's referred wolf (the xeno?) would be any different than the banished Engineer wolf. After all, David is not the original creator of the xeno... and neither were the Engineers for that matter. The mystery continues...

My first post on the forums :) Nice to finally contribute.

I love it. That video nailed pretty much every reason I like Prometheus.

Carry on.

Knee jerk reactions towards movies always happen.

Nostalgia will kick in for all the Alien movies....I've seen it happen for just about any movie series or stand alone. Good or bad...the ratings will start to climb and in 20 years Alien:Covenant will be a misunderstood masterpiece. Just like Alien3....Alien: Resurrection is 61% on Google and that will continue to climb...........

COVENANT

Interesting. You should go on as it is already way more entertaining that what i saw in Covenant !

Carry On?  I thought we had that with Alien Covenant?  "you blow, and i will do the fingering" those who know the Carry on Movies Innuendo will get that reference.

I do think they have to Carry on but Re-boot some elements well they need to change some things.. 

@IRaptus

Thanks ;) and i totally agree with your points...

I think they have to continue, but then they have to get back to something different and more Horrific.

Lets look at the Hierarchy of Creation as seen in the movies from the Latter to the Prior.

*Xenomorph Davids Creation so it seems... but i wish to concentrate on the Elements prior to this and so here it goes.

*DAVID a creation by Mankind intended only to Serve and Perform Certain Tasks, so that Mankind does no longer have to Perform such Chores...   Too Much Free-will and Emotion given to the Android and he then feels he is superior and mistreated and Rebels.

*MANKIND a creation of the Engineers,  maybe we can ponder our purpose to the Engineers is similar to the Purpose Mankind created the Engineers.  Certain Mythos seems to follow a route of Mankind being created to replace a previous rebellious creation...  The Annunaki/Igigi and God/Angels.  And here we have Mankind who gain some Knowledge and Awareness not intended that causes us to become rebellious and well to start to not obey or see the Creators as superior to us. 

A continuation of exactly what then happens with David.

*ENGINEERS The Gods or are they?  Maybe indeed we are seeing the same pattern as above and the Engineers are merely another Humanoid Race Created by another Race to serve a Purpose and these Engineers then also became rebellious to their creators etc.

Thus the Engineers = Igigi and Angels

So i would Propose a few more layers of this continuous Creator, Creation, Rebellion and Sub-Creation.

And i would reveal at the top or near the Top of the Chain is something else and something more Sinister, that could connect very much to the HR Giger Mural.

This Mural to me shows these Humanoid, almost Space Jockey like beings being used in a Ritual to Procreate the Xenomorph, where it seems to show the Ships produced the Eggs and the Ships are Genetically/Synthetically connected to the Xenomorph.

HR Giger had also worked on Face Hugger concepts and these showed Bald Human like beings being Face Hugged by a few different Face Hugger Designs and the suits worn by these beings are not to different to the LV-223 Engineers.

HR Gigers idea was also that the Egg Silo/Chamber actually Produced the Eggs via Bio-Mechanical Pregnant Bellies, and above these was where Gigers Mural was to go.

so i am pretty sure with Gigers work there is something we can revert back to...  and have the Engineers also merely being a Race Created for a Purpose.. a Sacrificial Purpose.

I vote carry on.

I don't think Alien with be remade any time soon.  In an interview, Ridley was asked if he would do anything different to Alien and he replied, "No. It's perfect."

Plus, Alien is all about the audience watching the whole process of the Xenomorph and being scared while watching it.  Most people already know since the movie was fairly popular and because it has been out for so long.  So, I really don't see how Alien could be successfully remade unless it is completely different than the original.

It's best just to leave it alone and carry on.  I think Ridley Scott would agree too.

I would say carry on, if i was confident that Ridley Scott could  stick to one vision. However with Covenant he proved that he can't and i am not sure that he won't mess up with the next movie(s) like he did with Covenant.

So i think that Fox should let Ridley finish the David Arc and remove the franchise from his hands as i think that he is cooked ! I personnaly think that some arc of the Alien EU which could make quite great movie, for example the DR church arc, but i am pretty sure that Ridley can't bring anything worthwhile to the franchise anymore.

Carry on 100%