Comments (Page 680)

Big Dave, one can only hope for that Awakening at Fox! Some of the deleted scenes are near perfect and others are on the right track. Will have to put my review on there as I also did not see the option to add review on the linked page. Better days ahead

Cupanator3000 -

Do you not feel the interaction and excitement around the latest snippets is more rewarding over the months prior ?

For what it takes out of the film is negligible depending on your outlook.

If i weigh up the times i spent enjoying the marketing and being involved and such against my feelings of a 2hr film not being as mysterious as it could of been ?

EDIT: I will do it all again. and i also respect your decision for what is best for you 

Thanks, BigDave!

In your opinion, would you say that the notion “biomechanical” has to do with aesthetics (Giger’s art) and not with the technicality? It has to do with how the creature looks, not how it is created? In other words, the important thing is not if David himself (or parts of him) is somehow blended with organic/biological life - thus creating the xenomorph (with its biomechanical traits)?

Giger’s mural is interesting since it seems to depict the xenomorph’s life cycle upside down (from top to bottom - and not the other way around). The egg (with a facehugger) comes from a woman’s womb (Shaw?). There is also the pyramid form (hinting at the ancient cultures of Egypt, Maya etc)? There also seems to be a reference to the Freemasons with the pyramid and the eye at the top?

David is 80 years old. Ridley Scott says it here in this interview.Empire Magazine Podcast-Alien Covenant Special Featuring Ridley Scott

David is the prototype model, the first one. That's what Walter says in the deleted scenes on the Blu-Ray.

Shaw reached the planet alive, she was killed later on.

The bugs in David were there because he went 10 years without maintenance, again this is mentioned in the deleted scenes with Walter in the Blu-Ray.

All these things BigDave has answered with far more eloquence that I. x

So are we thinking that when this creature was "evolved" it was taken from a small parasite then slowly built up by cross breeding or hybridising ? (he called it) 

So each time the creature and therefore the egg increases in size ????

Or any theories guys ????

I enhanced the 'chicken' eggs eggs a bit.

If that chicken has been chest bursted, that confirms the chicken did NOT come before the egg :)

@Amunet - "I'm sorry dear I think you are missing the point of the thread"

Not at all. I was just pointing out Awakening is not a working title for the next movie, which you imply it is in your original post. Carry on.

The link works. With the exception of the Neomorph scene, I would have left all of those in the movie. All were good character moments.

@Ati - "I have the feeling that at/from 3:40 we see Shaw's neck and head - yeah, David removed Shaw's head from the body..."

I think that is actually the neck from this alien head, not Shaw. She is on a table deeper into the room.

Duplicate post.

I never thought about it, but it would seem almost obvious that the Alien would be able to regrow limbs.  The pathogen works quick to deconstruct/reconstruct genetic material.  In a way, that should also allo wit to regenerate the destroyed material if it really is the perfect organism.

I don't think RS is going to use James Cameron's queen for his movie.  I feel like it would be more like David attempting to mutate a female, probably Daniels, into a type of Xenomorph queen.  Something like the way Giger's Alien life cycle painting depicts.  David said he had to be forceful with Shaw because she protested him cleansing Planet 4.  Then he wanted to make her a queen but she died.  Judging by the growths around/under her head, it looks like he may have attempted to turn her into a queen to create eggs, but maybe she died during the transformation, or maybe she was still/already dieing from the Trilobyte birth.  I think in the next movie David will perfect this and turn Daniels into some grotesque queen that can generate eggs for David.

Since he was trying to tame the neomorphs, or gain their trust, he will probably have to do this with whoever becomes the queen, since the mutagen always makes the infected person violent.  Maybe Shaw became violent with him during the mutation, leading him to have to "put her down."

It's still there, link works.

@Amunet - I liked Walter & do hope to see him in future installments, too!

Indeed i had discussed this before, as indeed the Covenant Ship does have some Corridors that look more like the Derelict one.

The Set of this Corridor is next to the set of the Pilot Room, and when the Covenant crew explore the Juggernaught some of the Corridors match Prometheus.

I too when we saw the more Derelict looking Aesthetic of this Corridor wondered what connection it would have, and how this is different to the Ships in Prometheus.

But looking at the Crossing Video it appears this is just another part of the Ships that we did not see anyone explore in Prometheus

@red0guy@gmail.com

Dr Shaw and Holloways entire works were devoted to uncovering many Archeological Digs, looking at connections between Ancient Cultures and how they could connect to Gods, the very opening of Prometheus they was working on a Archeological Dig.  The Drafts also referred their works to Archeologist.  I am sure the term Dr does not have to apply to just Medical Professions

The Weyland Viral Site for Prometheus provided a lot of the information on David.

The whole John Denver signal was maybe not the best way to cover it, but again it was done so as that appeared David could use a recording made when Dr Shaw at some point was humming that song... and so David would use a piece of this Transmission to Bait/Lure any Humans in.  It was a way to get their attention.... They could have indeed had David make a Signal but with records of how unreliable some Davids had been maybe the Crew would have ignored or taken more caution with a direct signal from David.

Also if they went the route of Dr Shaw leaving a Signal it would depend at what point Dr Shaw would have done so, as this would impact what kind of Signal she would give.. The only time she would need to make any signal would be to request a rescue.... but then it would be likely due to the Events that any Signal she gave would be a Warning and not a SOS.

So i guess the Denver Song just fitted without having to look at alternative ways.

daliens Thank you I use a Mac Book Air. Once you can copy with out linking it seems to work as a straight copy and paste.

Thank you also for the compliment I am not a genre fan (sci fi, fantasy etc etc) I love movies and I love thought provoking cinema. I am quite comfortable that Prometheus had its faults but it also had audacity and tried to give the creature a fascinating creation myth whereas what seems to have happened mid flight between LV 223 and Paradise is it was decided it should be dealt with by the numbers. 

If Awakening works it will operate in the opposite mode to Covenant. Covenant closed everything off and put everything on David, Awakening will open everything out again bringing in elements which are on the edge of the Covenant narrative the question is to what degree. David may find he will need all the help he can get from any source and as he is the unreliable narrator who knows how the incomers will react. 

Aug-03-2017 11:57 PM Can someone delete this post 

I will have to wait to see the Advent video so i can properly debate it

I think its very open to what is meant by the Queen...

It does not have to mean that David Creates a Queen as per say.

We need to pay attention to Prometheus more than Alien Covenant for clues,  the only Life Form similar to the Xenomorph and the Mural was the Deacon which was birthed from the Trilobite which acted as pretty much a Face Huger.

The route to create this Xenomorph Relative was Black Goo contaminating Dr Shaws Re-productive Organs, this would be via one of either.

1) Holloways Sperm infected with the Xeno-Virus Parasitic Pathogen, Fertilizes one of Shaws Eggs.

2) The Xeno-Virus Parasitic Pathogen used the Sexual encounter between Holloway to pass to Shaws Womb where it infected one of her Eggs (thus Holloway was a means of Transmission much like a STD).

3) As above but instead of infecting one of Shaws Eggs, the Parasitic Pathogen was able to use Shaws Womb to Gestate and Evolve into a Trilobite.

I would discount option 3, due to the Deacon being born with a Umbilical Cord.

So for David a starting point would be to Replicate the Experiments on LV-223 which i was informed was to a degree Davids Agenda in the Prometheus 2 drafts.

David would maybe wonder what the outcome of Shaws Baby Trilobite would have been, assuming he never sees or knows about the Deacon outcome.

So a starting point for David depends on how Dr Shaw was infected...  If it was Option 1) Mutated Holloways Sperm.

Then David could ponder what Dr Shaws Eggs plus direct infection from the Black Goo would instead create.

if we go to Alien Covenant, then David has at some point experimented and cross experimented with a number of different Life Forms and he referred to Dr Shaw as his Greatest Specimen.... and also those Eggs are his Greatest Achievement but he lacked Hosts for the Eggs at this point... until the arrival of the Covenant Crew.

So its likely that these Eggs needed Dr Shaws Eggs as part of their Process of Creation.  It would appear from the Advent description that David intended to Evolve Dr Shaw and in some way have her become a Queen....  This again fits with the intention for Prometheus 2 as far as the Source i had over 2.5 years ago mentioned.

But AC did not go this route, the Advent seems to hint David wanted to evolve Shaw, but she objected and so he had to kill her and Harvest her Organs for Experiments.

Thus likely her Eggs became the Xenomorph Eggs.

So we can now assume Davids intentions may have been to test these Eggs, but then also to infect Shaw and make her into a Hybrid and then we can ponder what would a  Xeno/Shaw Hybrid do as far as Procreation?  What would become of her Reproductive Capabilities once she is a evolved Hybrid.

Indeed some of the Concept work touched upon this

So indeed maybe this was the intention of David, and now he may have these plans for Daniels?  However even going as far as just Harvest Daniels Eggs and then infect them would make her kind of his Queen.

These concepts above, are pretty much similar to what the Source i had 2.5 years ago had described, and Chris can validate this as they did hint that Dr Shaw would become in effect Sin from the Paradise Lost Poem and one of the TWO Monster Designs would be based of  one of the Original Xenomorph Designs, but wont be a Xenomorph and the other would be based off Necronom 4 but again wont be a Xenomorph and well the Necronom 4 was the Original idea, well HE Giger design they chose to follow and base the Original Alien off... so this rules out Necronom 4 for the other Monster, which brings me to the First Original Design Giger had done for the Monster in Alien.

Which somewhat we can see those Dr Shaw concepts kind of take some traits from.

Cerulean Blue That one I ordered from Amazon in 4k , not Covenant, that one i'll skip it...

@ RedGuy - Prometheus was on last night & I watched it again, as it is awesome & so full of potential!!

Yes, I will do my best to avoid spoilers! I mean, the early leaks/news that come about the script, creatures, or certain other things, I will jump on and analyze (before production starts or in the beginning of it), but I definitely spoiled the Covenant experience a little bit for myself. 

I just couldn't control myself! Funnily enough, I don't really remember any parts that were spoiled by coming here. I think there were a few topics that I shouldn't have clicked on (I was probably well warned in the title and beginning of the article too!), but the trailers are what destroyed it for me. 

My plan for the next film is to visit here as usual until production starts (give or take a few weeks.) From there, I will limit myslef on daily visits here, or just make sure to avoid any possible major spoilers topic. Once we are about 6 months out... That is the most dangerous time, I think. A trailer might drop around then or little before, so I may go completely M.I.A. at that point. Oh, MOST importantly, I will only watch the first trailer for sure. Maybe the first full trailer too, I don't know. 

The worst part about trying to avoid the forum and trailers completely is that I just want to talk about the Alien franchise and watch the new additions to it!! It is sooo hard to actually go cold turkey. It's a struggle everytime haha. 

Thx BigDave for the consideration. I truly believe that with the care of someone like you a truly great Sci-fi could have been made, something beyond cliche horror tropes. As it is, with killing Shaw, for me the franchise is over as I am not interested in the nazi robot (Wagner being Hitler's favorite, Creating the perfect life form-the Ubermorphy-thingy, blond blue eyes) squaring off with the Evil Corporation at in the end being killed by his own creation?

Also can you point me exactly where it is said that Shaw was an archaeologist, sorry if don't believe you here. Isn't the Dr title in the US used for physicians, and usually the phd or md for some with a doctorate?

Shaw from Prometheus was willing to sacrifice her life to save humanity, so she definitely would have not transmuted any distress signal to endanger others. So the John Denver song is pure laziness.

From where do you know about this successions, versions of Davids? What do you know about the strength of a synth and their weight ? Why do they need to know hand to hand combat?

If Walter models must be imprinted with DNA, whose DNA was used for the Covenant mission? Furthermore, if Walter models are so different from the Davids, how can the asshole access Mother security details? Or while he was not experimenting on Shaw did he worked on predicting the evolution of security of future synth technology?   

Well they do kind of have a habit of changing things or making comments that contradict or pose problems to what we have been shown.

We need to remember Originally RS had envisioned the Xenomorph as being able to Regenerate, this was something they wanted to explore in Alien. There are a number of ideas regarding the Organism that RS had, includes ideas he maybe shared with some of the Production Staff while working on Alien.

That RS never got to explore because he was no part of any of the sequels.... so it appears RS may introduce some of these ideas as he explores his own Prequel Series.

We saw the Hammerpede was able to Re-grow its head, which i put down to the Black Goo simply Evolving a Trait associated with some kinds of WORM but if RS chooses to explore the Xenomorph as being able to Regenerate, then it could be this Trait is part of the Black Goo and not from the Worms found on LV-223.

However, we do not know where those Worms come from and so they could still be explored as part of the key... but i think this is not likely now.

A lot depends now if they explore the route that most Black Goo infected life can Regenerate... or if this is a Trait that David has implanted onto only the Xenomorphs via various experiments.

Been taken down, for likely obvious reasons.

4) It appears the Walter Models are very different in construction to David models, it even appears the Walter Models have components that look more Biological, The Walter Campaign did show us that Walter Models imprint themselves to their owners, so they are able to be more compatible with their owners Personality and Character Traits.

As far as the losing DNA Rights, this is never explained and its pretty much something totally open to debate. And one element i have not given much deep thought about.

5) You raise some very interesting points, that indeed pick upon many flaws we see with this Prologue as far as contradictions.   Weyland had began working on AI before David 1 was created in 2025, as far back as prior to 2023 they had been playing around with AI and at the 2023 TED Talk Peter Weyland said that in a few years they could create a Synthetic Life form indistinguishable from Mankind.

We can only assume Weyland had Sandboxed the AI for his David Project, so they test it first prior to allowing it to be uploaded into a Fully working, moving Android.

This is because the Prologue was to be the first time David was switched on, yet we clearly see that David has knowledge out of the BOX and so he would have had a set of Programs and Library of Knowledge uploaded to his AI before it was Activated.

This Scene also shows David choosing the Name for himself, yet he knows of certain things like the Statue of Davids Name and the Enter the Gods of Valhalla Musical... so a certain amount of knowledge would have been acquired and placed within the AI before it was transferred to a Artificial Synthetic Body and then Activated.

As far as Dr Shaw indeed they was to explore this but FOX/RS had a change of Plan because they felt people would not be Uninterested in Shaws  Objective, and that the Franchise needed to by-pass this and link more to Alien. 

And again FOX simply seem to be making it up and changing things as they go...  It appears and clues was there on Sets which we never got to see well in AC, that Dr Shaw did indeed make it and was alive for sometime on Paradise, but the New Advent video would seem to hint that Dr Shaw did not spend as much time on Paradise before David had killed her off.

6) The Song was just a Plot Device to drive a reason for the Covenant Crew to Explore and go to Planet 4, much the same as the Neutrino Burst as the same.   They decided that sending a signal or that receiving a signal that shows Dr Shaw humming to the John Denver "take me home" song, would be something that could be used so that despite the Static etc... Tennessee would notice the Tune, thus it could only had been made by someone from Earth.

The alternatives would have been what? Dr Shaw making a SOS in Person... so it would depend on what she would say... " Anybody out there, "my name is Dr Shaw and i am stranded on this planet" surely if this was the case, it depend on when she made a signal and then this would then affect what she puts, if a signal was made to be rescued after she had realized David had gone Crazy etc.. she would surely put this in her SOS...

So the Denver Song was just a way to allow other Humans to make a connection, without giving any real SOS message.  So at some point Dr Shaw was humming that Song and the Juggernaught Recorded it, and David chose to select part of this recording and send it out into Space... hoping that it would reach a Human Ship and they would come to investigate.

7) I think this is down to each persons individual interpretation i do not see him as being overt nazism at all.

Also its no waste of time, its all part of the point of this site... to allow New/Old users to discus all things related to the Franchise.

Welcome aboard ;)

Alas BD you have missed the obvious, though TBH, it seems everyone has...

The juggernaut used by Shaw and David was identical to that used by the last Engineer in Prometheus; Mechanical.

Yet in AC its interior corridors mirror those of the derelict on LV-426.

What happened in between - David unleashed the Black Goo...

1) Indeed she was a archaeologist but it appears she may have some medical knowledge as far as keeping up to date with Technological Advances... i would say this is part of her Character and reasons she and Holloway made those discoveries so as to try and see if their was a connection to Mankind Technological Evolution and interaction by beings we saw as Gods.

2)It was loosely a Prequel, it opened up a New World to explore (Engineers/Space Jockey) and provided a few connections to the events on LV-426 but loosely.  And so it left the movie open to be explored in a number of ways, they could have gone off further from Alien (which they planed to) or make the next movie more connected.   They did Prometheus in a way that it could be taken as a Stand Alone movie as a sequel was not 100% set in stone at the time of Production.

But after Prometheus they did intend to do 2 more sequels, and so Prometheus was to be the Start of a New Prequel Trilogy.  But this Changed.

It should now be looked at a Prologue to a Alien Prequel Trilogy/Dualology  where Prometheus is a Prologue that kind of has a Fork in the Road... that leads to TWO Alternative routes to explore... The One being a direct route to Alien which the Movies are now showing and the other would be to explore the Engineers which was what was originally going to be done... but it appears we will not see this as much now.

3) Thats a great point "And if the issues were found wouldn't the exterior of the synth be the first to be changed to reassure the clients?"  I would say that would be a ideal move.

As far as David 8 goes he would be only 32-33 years Old, however he would have the Knowledge, Experiences and Memories passed on from Proto-type to Proto-type and so in effect the Memories/Soul of David for Weylands Personel Model has been passed on for Generations of David and so his Body would be 32-33 years Old but his AI has Memory/Emotions passed on over 79 years.   Weyland was aware of flaws in each Model and so when they upgraded each Model he Tested these new Models with the AI of his own Personal David.

I think a number of us could not help ourselves.. ;)

And will likely repeat the same again....

I think indeed FOX need to be careful of its Marketing and Trailers and not give enough away...

Well i think as you pointed out there are various ways Bio-mechanical can come to mind,  Bio-mechanics which as you said is about the mechanism of how Biological Life moves.

And Bio-Mechanic as in a combination of synthetic/organic material in which indeed synthetically created organs and body parts would fit.

The movie Virus is more of a Cyborg, its a Virus Machine that builds robots/Cyborgs out of Dead Bodies and Mechanical Components and is a bit like the Borg from Star Trek.

The Xenomorph however is grown, it is not created as a fusion of Synthetic/Mechanical with Organic Material on some kind of Production line or other interaction, the Xenomorph grows from a Embryo so it kind of has the Bio-Mechanical Atheistic within its DNA etc.

As the movies Progressed the Xenomorph became less and less Mechanical, even starting with Aliens the Xenomorphs retained a high level of the Mechanical look of the 1979 Xenomorph, but the Queen did not, it looked more like a Armored Exo-skeleton and so looked more like say a Scorpion Construction rather than the Organic and Mechanical Fusion that was HR Gigers Aesthetic

Alien 3, Alien Resurrection and the AVP movies toned down the Mechanical Look of the Xenomorph from Alien/Aliens and it appears Alien Covenants is more closer to a mix of Alien 3 Runner and Alien Resurrection Clone Xenomorphs.

I think while Gigers Aesthetic was unique its what made the Xenomorph so different, it is a little bit odd how it came to be, if we are looking at it kind of objectively from a science stand point.

The Reason being that the Egg, Face Hugger do not share any of the HR Giger Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic, the Chest Buster does but in a more Alien 3 toned down way.

Its only the Adult Form that is truly a merger of Organic and Mechanical Components.

Onto the Ships....

Indeed the Derelict had that more Organic look internally than the Juggernauts do, while externally they are not to dissimilar from a Aesthetic Stand Point.

Ridley Scott had addressed the differences in a number of ways.

*The Derelict was Ancient and in a Derelict State, the Juggernauts are in Pristine as New Condition.

*The Derelict Ship out-dates the Juggernaught Design by a few hundred years.

We dont know what stance RS will take now, but it appears his set of sequels to Alien Covenant will drive us back to Alien, and so we are assuming we may see How/When/Why the Derelict ends up on LV-223

Looking at HR Gigers Original designs and looking at his Mural

Which does give a lot of clues to fit in with the whole Prometheus Universe, which one of the two ideas i had to explore the Engineers in my canceled Prometheus 2 draft was to tackle... But i will by-pass the Engineer connection here.

so only looking at the Ship and its relation to the Mural, the U shaped object that looks like the Derelict but also a Xenomorph is maybe showing us a Genetic Connection between the Xenomorph and the Derelict Ship.

Indeed the Xenomorph Hives to have a similar Architectural Aesthetic to the Derelict interior and i am sure MANY Fans would have liked to see this connection explored.

But alas.... Prometheus gave us more Mechanical Ships and Less Mechanical Xeno related DNA....  So you cant help but think back then what if some Event Caused a Merger of the Mechanical Juggernaught and Organic Xeno-like DNA

What if a Event happened to a Crashed Juggernaught where somehow the Black Goo leaked and somehow it infected the Ship passing on the Black Goo DNA, while then also having some Organism grow from the Black Goo that took on the Juggernauts Construction Matter... 

This would result in both the Ship and Organism to both become Bio-Mechanical like we saw in Alien.

But it appears this is not the route we are taken, however.... maybe they could do if David somehow Evolves the Black Goo so it can affect non-organic matter.

I avoided all spoilers for A:C. I plan to do the same for A:A. There is a thread on this website where the title is to descriptive. It's about Walter being in A:A. I wish the title of that thread was more vague.

DK -

The movie was not spoilt for me either. I set myself a challenge of trying to piece the clues together so that i knew how the film pans out. The order of the clips etc..

i loved every geek minute searching for a new snippet each day. ill admit it what i done lol ;)

i managed really well in the end and was happy. my negatives of A:C are not the marketing which i chose to check. i wanted to see everything they had to give us. No. the negative for me was they told us it was a sequel to Prometheus and billed as such but they brushed aside the engineer story. yet left the engineer alphabet in and all the details. but ignored them. fancy sets just to be ignored.

other than that i was well happy with a:c

If Reviews are out of 5  then mine would have to be 3/5 however maybe after reviewing the DVD i think it may push to a 3.5/5

I think its nice to have this Sticky Thread for Reviews.

I also think it would be good to Base TWO Reviews of the DVD/Blu-ray release.. One Review for the Movie and another review/score for the Extra Content on the Discs

Was great to look back and see how i felt back then. I was almost closing one eye, squinting as i clicked....

What have i said ? i was about to cringe.....

Actually i was ok with my review from a few months ago. As i said in another thread i rate it a little higher now after getting over my issues at the lack of reveals.

EDIT: Sidetracked sorry. IRaptus that is a happy medium i think. Thank you for offering us the opportunity to give our input and this should do fine !!

@Dave

the engineers don't seem to have a commercialized antagonistic world, their buildings, the lack of symbols like ('Coca-Cola','Pepsi','Mercedes',etc) and behavior resemble a lot a socialist ancient Spartan like way of life. Still the question remains, if they were so advanced why did their systems of defense lacked the ability to prevent a David from bombing them? They were ridiculously helpless when David entered their world.

Gavin Well color me embarrassed ad apologetic. We are attempting to make a great forum even better. 

updated dk, with all current reviews for Alien: Covenant.

DK, there's an add review button beneath the movies poster!

Thanks for starting this. An observation: when I click on the link, I can see the reviews but do no see where to click to post one. 

I avoid most spoilers before watching Alien Covenant so the viewing experience is still good. If I could choose again I may steer clear all promotion materials/trailers and stuffs. But for me it's very hard to avoid the temptation, especially if the Awakening is going to tie with the 1979 Alien. Alien Covenant is not the best in the franchise but I still enjoy it a lot.