Comments (Page 119)
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Very happy you elected not to leave!!
I'll keep this short, I am having an unusually unpleasant day, health-wise so shorter will ensure clarity.
You've been a member here for a long time, and would be Missed. Also, as you said, home is where the hive is. :D
Well, this is your hive, and mine, ours...secreted away from the thunderous ramblings of the Uber-Franchises where we can trade our thoughts, further delving into the mysteries that tease us in the ALIENverse.
We are better for you having elected to stay with us. (HUG)
An interesting fact is that all the prominent features of the Orion constellation are very far away from Earth, many hundreds or indeed thousands of light years distant. This being the case, you could travel a fair number of light years from Earth and Orion would still look broadly the same as it does from here. But other nearby stars (such as Zeta Reticuli at a mere 39 ly) would appear to be in wildly different parts of the sky.
Therefore, if one is being charitable, you could make the case that the starchart being displayed on the Prometheus is being shown from some distant reference point. Who can say where that reference point is; it certainly doesn't have to be Earth or indeed where the Prometheus is currently located. You could very likely find a distant reference vantage point where Zeta Reticuli would appear in the sky as it does on the Prometheus starchart.
OK, I'm being charitable. But what I can't forgive is the script in Covenant, where the computer describes the origin of David's transmission as having a "Right Ascension of 47.6 and a Declension of 24.3 from our current location". This is just daft gobbledegook. For a start, astronomical coordinates have a Declination, not a declension. Declension is a grammatical term. Further, Right Ascension and Declination coordinates are centred on planet Earth, not from an arbitrary location in space. Slapdash!
What about the olmec heads?
It might be healthier to eat a moldy bread from a trusted chef than a hamburger. Or popcorn.
SuperAlien:
It depends on how we program them, I don't see why we should give them that ability. In reality it could be interesting but as far as the Alien Franchise is concerned I'm more interested in the Engineers because they seem more mysterious and alien. The androids no matter how fascinating some people find them, are too close to humans and that's why I'm against the idea of having David as the creator of the monster although I can see the reason behind that. He was more interesting in Prometheus when he just wasn't an asshole but he was too evil in AC.
Thematically David is interesting, story-wise I prefer the Engineers. If I would have to just pick one I wish that they would continue with the Engineers which would make more sense if we talk about continuing to explore who the one in the chair was and which is what Ridley wanted to look up in the beginning of the prequels.
“But we should let creators do their thing instead of winning constantly about one flaw or the other.”
I don't agree with that, they can do what they want but I also think that the audience have their right to let them know if we don't like it. If someone gives you a moldy bread and makes you eat it, would that be acceptable to you just because some of the cheese seems fine and just because the chef is famous? To me the answer would be no, and it's the same thing here. Just because Scott is involved with something and has done good movies before doesn't mean that we can't say no when he makes bad choices with respect to the good movies that he has made.
“Wouldn't that be a mean android?”
Not necessarily, it could be but it depends on how the criticism is being made. I understand your point but I think that people should be allowed to have different opinions. They could have androids in it because it worked in the other movies but it's too much about them, that's what I'm against. Not sure if I would be interested in a Star Wars-movie about Ewoks either even though they are cute.
Thoughts_Dreams androids can be very mean if given the choice and more terrifying than xenomophs. Imagine a world ruled by androids. Are we that far from it? Or do you prefer the engineers?
I think it is too late now to continue David's story and Ridley Scott understood that. That is one reason he chose to make Raised by Wolves.
But we should let creators do their thing instead of winning constantly about one flaw or the other. Honestly, I am grateful for every film Ridley Scott will helm and hope to be many.
Androids, replicants are the future and one day they will be making their own films. Imagine how it will be on an android forum when some will complain he doesn't want humans in the films, but better written android characters. Wouldn't that be a mean android?
The System was the Zeta Reticuli System, however that Star Chart is Incorrect as the Reticulum Constellation would NOT be Located where LV-223 was shown.
If we go by the Map that Holloway Pointed to then LV-223 is Located Bellow Gemini
There is a Margin of Error with THIS though as the Sky Map in Prometheus is NOT exactly Accurate.
SuperAlien
Trump, I think that he has different opinions compared to other people but I also think that it seems that he likes to be the boss and tell people what to do. When I said that I think that RBW is boring I meant it as to say that it's not my thing but if you like it then you're of course allowed to have that opinion. I think that I should have used other words but my opinion on it hasn't changed. Some people might like RBW, good for them but I don't. Nothing personal against you
My reason for getting that forced in my opinion about it is that if that show will do alright then it might mean a green-light for Ridley to continue on with his David-movies, and I don't want that. If some people like them good for them but I'm not fine with them being that much about David. He could work if they re-made him a bit and toned down his role which isn't to say that he couldn't be in it at all but that’s just my opinion.
“Some people simply enjoy being mean and I know you are not one of them…”
Thanks, I try to do my best but I also prefer if people tell me if I do or say something wrong, that is an opportunity to learn.
“...I am against comments that might prejudice the happening of any new film in the franchise...”
Not sure what you mean by that, can you explain a bit? I think that if people don't like what is being done in a franchise that they like then they should be allowed to critisize it, that can be said in different ways though and maybe that's where I failed. To voice different opinions is what discussions are for, right?
Scott could be involved with the visuals of the movie, he is really great at making things look good. I don’t throw crap on his ability to do that. What I dislike is his choice to make it all about David and to interfere with the story because writing and story-things is where I think that he makes a mess. This is not some I hate Scott thing, it is just that I think that even he should try to understand his limits. I am not good at everything, and neither is he.
He Ha Super Alien you must Wrote that at the Same Time as i was doing my Reply ;)
The Urns did seem to HIT a Barrier that was OVER the Plaza, maybe it was a SHIELD. But it Offered Little Protection.
I think the Engineers were Naive in their Technology and Protection of their Worlds, it would appear they had FELT as they Controlled the LEVEL of Advancement of the Worlds they VISIT they would ASSUME that a World that is Abandoned would NEVER see its Inhabitants be able to ADVANCE to become a Threat.
They maybe also are Naive to think that EVERY one of them Follow the Ways of the Engineers and so have LITTLE CONCERNS that another Faction of their Species would EVER come and USE their Technology against its OWN KIND.
And so maybe they NEVER really deemed it Necessary for Stronger Protective Measures.
Regarding the Shield then YES this was the Original Idea the Planet was Protected by Floating Technology at the Planets Poles that we assume is what Cloaked the Planet, but Certainly Prevented the Covenant Rescue Mission from taking Place until it was DESTROYED.
This was NOT included in Alien Covenant the Movie and instead its the STORMS that maybe Cause the Problem. But we cant RULE-OUT that the Planet has some kind of Cloak that MASKS what can be Detected from FAR OUT.
The Scorpion Ship acted as some kind of Border Control and when this SHIP was DESTROYED/DISABLED then it appears it RENDERED the Engineer Ships from being Unable to Leave the Planet.. but we cant Conclude this in the Theatrical Cut as the Scene of the Hanger with Multiple Juggernauts was removed.
Regarding the Silly Mistakes then a LOT of these Errors of Judgement and Stupidity are Plot Devices to ALLOW for a Certain THING to be shown or Happen. Sadly some Stupid Errors can be Rectified with a Reason and Good Thought such as STUPID ASH for allowing Kane on the Nostromo (which we had the Reason latter Special Order 937 so that was CLEVER Writing). But NOT every such Error of Ways for a Plot Device are as WELL Thought Out and Written.
The Drafts sometimes have more Detailed and Better Reasons for some Silly Errors made by the Characters.
As for Faris and Blowing Up the Lander, i think she was in Terror and Panicked and i would SAY she is NOT really Military Trained... and i think it was a Good Plot Device.
I think David's bombs got just fine because he was welcome, all the engineers gathered to see his arrival, the docking ship was ready for him. Somehow his arrival was known to the engineers.
I remeber there was a hypothesis that planet was shielded and that was the reason David could not leave with another Juggernaut from the undergound hangar, the ones seen in a deleted scene. He was not able to deactivate the shield.
But then we see the Covenant shuttle and the lander don't have any problems with any shield.
I am not sure if they missed the planet or the fact that it is habitable. Have to watch it again.
Thoughts_Dreams, without being political, do you think Mr. Trump is mean or he just has different opinions?
I think it is mean to say that something is garbage or boring, knowing that it will hurt some people feelings.
I do not judge you, I have my mean side as well, that's something I am not proud of.
Some people simply enjoy being mean and I know you are not one of them and my decision to leave would have been annihilated by a shot of scotch that unfortunately is out of reach for the moment.
I have nothing against you personally, nor against anyone else on this forum, I am against comments that might prejudice the happening of any new film in the franchise, in case anyone involved with the production does some fanbase research. They would be utterly confused and would wonder why bother if they could not please at least the hardcore fans?
I, for one, trust Ridley Scott, and I want him involved in the next film, at least that would guarantee we won't get the equivalent of The Predator or some Marvel Alien.
If the next film fails, I am afraid it will be the end of Alien.
Leto:
I agree that he should have reacted in a different way but then maybe people act different under pressure. Faris was kind of alright I think, at least she had some sort of personality, she was able to handle her thing until the monster showed up and she panicked. She was poorly written compared to the characters in the first three but compared to many of the characters in the movie I think that she did OK.
You mention the kind of hysteria but remember that she had just seen that thing bursting out and she freaked. Besides it chased Karine so it was surely lethal, no wonder why Faris panicked.
"They hate stupid annoying characters - give them stupid annoying characters!"
LMAO! That was fun but then how do you explain Prometheus? In a podcast they discussed the alien franchise and there they discussed the prequels and according to a documentary that they commented on Ridley seemed most concerned with getting it to two hours to get more showings. Even if the actors are alright, then so much can get cut out so they look like idiots in the final movie even if they are capable of doing good work. Both prequels suffer from characters that look like idiots but also if you look at an extended cut of Prometheus they dont look as bad. To me it seems that they cut too many scenes that make sense and that is either because of Scott and his bizarre fixation of cutting them down to two hours or the studio bosses having a messed up prioritization, I don’t blame the actors.
No. Tennessee is not just an example. We can understand that Tennessee is worried about his wife and is in a hurry to establish connection to the planet surface. But the presentation (and direction) is simply unfortunate. Instead of a person who goes crazy with anxiety and goes to extremes, we get a point of irritation. Instead of a decent husband and a space colonist - just an asshole shouting: "Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw"
His wife - Faris, btw, the another annoying character in the AC. First, she hysteria over the radio, then dooms her friend to death, then fucking blows up the shuttle. I'm pretty sure Ridley knew about the characters problems in Prometheus, but he said: "They hate stupid annoying characters - give them stupid annoying characters!"
Leto: The same could be said about most of the characters to be honest. Not sure why you single out Tennessee like that but maybe you just gave an example. He had the same problem as most of the characters, he had no well-defined personality. Unfortunately to me at least he was just a guy in a hat. I don't blame the actors, the script probably lacked or that they cut out interesting character-parts.
Is it really so necessary to cut out all the interesting details from the film? David has already said that storms last for days, weeks, months. Wasn't it possible to add details? The interesting details about alien world! No, it's better to burn screen time on annoying Tennessee instead! [sacrasm]After all, his hysteria aboard the Covenant undoubtedly looks more attractive to viewers than information about an alien world[/sarcasm].
Earlier scripts had a planetary shield that Covenant had to destroy.
In the film David says the storms shield the whole planet - sometimes for months at a time. If they were scanning while the planet was shielded - they'd miss it.
Did you know that the inhabitants of Easter Island ruined the ecology of their island, destroying all the trees for the construction of these statues?
A great cultural heritage is often inseparable from madness. I think androids would be more sane. xDDD
Can we find parallels here with the engineers who, in their pride (or worship), destroyed their own world?
Roger G:
Maybe the Engineers have developed in different ways like humanity? We started in one place and share most of the genes but developed in a different way so people around the world look different depending on genetics and maybe the Engineers are the same? This could mean that there are different kinds on different planets. At the same time the smaller Engineers maybe created the big ones to be guards and the big ones left because of something (maybe a disagreement of some sort).
You had one Engineer on LV-223 and some on Planet 4, maybe they are more spread out than that? Mankind can go to the moon and if we accept that the Engineers are more advanced then they might have spread to different places like a super-advanced version of the colonization in AC. I totally understand why you're wondering about that but this could be a possible explanation.
Hox is right that we don't know that much about the Engineers. Prometheus scratched the surface while Alien Covenant got rid of them except for that short scene. It was a pity how they treated them in Alien Covenant. They should have been given more screen-time, maybe it was the studio effing up again.
Setaverde:
I hope that it's not how the Xeno was supposed to become bio-mechanical (infecting David) because that would be so lame even though I understand the idea. Unfortunately it could be possible that it's how Ridley would have done it if it would've been up to him. Giving the android an even bigger role would be stupid, if we look at RBW being a bit like the next prequel would've been partially. The guys in robes at 4:15 look like they could be like Engineers, like those wearing robes in Prometheus (cut scene). 4:15 is my favorite part of the whole clip, it looks very mysterious and therefore interesting. Actually the robe people remind me a bit of the emperor from Star Wars.
I have a somewhat dumb idea, what if the Engineers captured David, used their earlier version of the Xeno so they won't bother with his creation. Impregnated David with, it gets bio-mechanical and they mass-produce it. He could have a role but isn't the creator of the final monster. To me this seems better compared to what Alien Covenant suggested and also like a middle-finger to David. Maybe they use another metal for it to become that way, something that is only on some planets that they control. Like Janek said they wouldn't create that thing on their home-planet.
Hi, it's good to have you back. The more people that participate in this forum the better. We might not agree about everything but that's just fine. I think that it's important to be able to handle criticism.
To critisize something isn't the same as being mean, it can be done in different ways. Just because I say that I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I dislike you as a person. People should be able to separate those two things, otherwise you can't be on any message-board. Just to take an easy example that I think that you can relate to there are six canonical alien-movies and the AVP’s if we include them. Eight movies in the franchise, it would be strange if everyone would like everything.
Keep in mind also that there were also the shorts, they were of various quality and people probably have their likes and dislikes among them. When I say that I'm not really a fan of let's say Alien Covenant, or Raised By Wolves, that isn't me saying that I have something personal against you. My point is that I can say that Alien Covenant is boring without you then getting upset, and me for example when someone says that Alien 3 (which I really like) is garbage. Someone might not like Alien 3, but I'm fine with that, it's about allowing different opinions without calling each-other idiots or what ever.
Welcome back, stick around. If I have written something that comes off as hostile and negative towards a person then maybe I need to think about how I write things. Personally I'm here to discuss the franchise, I'm not here to be mean towards anyone.
The planet was not shielded from bombardment. David’s bombs got through just fine.
It’s entirely possible that Engineer technology can shield a planet from long range prying eyes. Why not. It would answer the question as to how the company missed it on its long range scans.
The juggernaut is built using advanced alien technology. It doesn’t have to worry about trifling matters such as atmosphere getting in its way. By the way, it was not FTL inside the atmosphere. If it had been, it would have disappeared in about 10 microseconds. 1/4000th of a frame of video.
We don’t know much about Engineer society. It’s possible that they have various castes and ethnicity scattered about the Galaxy.
Alien brothers and sisters,
Thank you for your kindness and concerns, I was deeply moved.
Some days are worse than others, however there is no excuse for SuperAlien to behave in such a pathetic manner.
Believe you me, I am here to stay and we better move on to the more interesting threads.
Home is where you hive is.
Perspective is really good! It's just matter of fact survival sort of how Ash described. I will need to re read a part because I wasn't quite sure what was being described- but that's also what makes it interesting to figure out. These vignettes are fun to read- thanks!
It might also be possible the planet was never exposed to the pathogen before and thus was unable to hold it off. Whomever designed and created it (the shield) din't know or expect a pathogen bombardment.
Raised by wolves creature - xenomorph jaw
YOU HAVE COME BACK! Big hug!
I cannot believe you ran away from home! What were you thinking?
And what was it like out there in the waste-land?????? Did you encounter savage posters and chatters in strange websites?
We were all very concerned!
BD cried for weeks! LOOOOOOL
New Vignette 'PERSPECTIVE'. just published.
It's an Experimental work, but I hope you find something to enjoy within it.
ALIEN: Manticore's sequel will be 'almost the last' we see of The Alien...Big Chap has a ticket to Turks & Cacos for a LONG deserved vacation. :D
...that doesn't mean it's GONE.
And also, yes, it's a BIG universe out there...and maybe The Alien was merely the 'intro' to grander horrors and thought-provokers?
I, like everyone else, has zero control over what The Industry does...but I can and will pursue Ideas that hopefully make the Waiting easier for the Fandom and preserve The essence of the franchise...which is about so much more than one interesting life form.
The Engineers;
Perhaps and likely they had rivals...enemies, perhaps even usurpers, creations akin to Humanity who challenged them for supremacy?
Other Civilizations;
Perhaps the Engineers encountered others not born of their works and decided to annihilate them as they were 'outside the plan'...essentially pruning out 'weeds'.
Nature;
Is capable of things absolutely unimaginable...so there's worlds out there with 100% Naturally Horror-story ecosystems and biospheres.
Humanity;
"I think it's time we went from making better worlds to making better people." Is something that might be heard in a W-Y or other corporate boardroom...and if you think David's tinkering is scary, imagine what an interstellar conglomerate is capable of.
The story of ALIEN is barely begun...
And, just possibly the potential Unseen organically-evolved AI in the web might work to protect Humanity from it's own leaders...
(((HUG)))
We all have 'Human Moments'...comes with the territory. :)
While we're waiting on the The Industry to let RS do another ALIEN story, in the meantime, our little nest here in the dark keep the essence of the franchise alive...
...Close to our hearts. ;)
Ridley must have been smoking when he dreamt up that idea! I'm so glad it never happened. It would have demeaned the Alien and made it far less enigmatic. The enigma is part of the terror.
I can only hope that David's foray into genetic engineering is a child's way of tampering with the ultimate creation horror. He's messed about with the box of fireworks, but he didn't truly make it. He found it and messed about with a bit of chemistry.
If I had my way, we'd have a movie that looks utterly Giger-esque that brings us the full story of the Engineers, and the back story of where they got the black goo technology. There's a much bigger story to be told.
I'm back!
Apologies if I offended anyone, blame it on my acid blood.
If we are kind, it would be a kind world.
But we are not kind enough and the good things do not happen.
I cannot watch Raised by Wolves yet, but I watch Man in the High Castle, another series produced by Scott Free. It would be just fine to have access to parallel worlds, one where the sequel to Alien Covenant would happen, I would happily live in that world than here where things are stuck.
Would you make another ‘Alien’ movie?
In a heartbeat. I loved working with Ridley and I loved playing that part. I hope we can! I would love it! I hope she’s still alive! (Katherine Waterstone)
I hope to see you again, Daniels!
"One of my goals with ALIEN: Manticore and it's sequel is to give The Alien back it's mystique, it's Majeur, it's Power, Mojo and Insidious Appeal"
I think its always Interesting to WONDER as to WHAT it would have been LIKE had say Ridley Scott had got to make ALIEN 2 i think it would have been MUCH different to ALIENS.
I think we have to WONDER to WHY and WHERE it would have been that RS had taken ALIEN if he had done the ONE ENDING he wanted.
Where the Xenomorph would Survive and Mimic Ripley to LURE more Humans in, while that may NOT have been the BEST it shows that RS had more of a Future planned for the Xenomorph than just being Invasive Space Termites.
Instead of a Space Bug, we may have seen the Xenomorph be more like David lol.... a Xenomorph with Davids Agenda and how Disturbing David was... could be something Horrific.
"Alien V could work as long as they won't involve anything that is connected to Ripley"
Totally Agree, by Virtue of the Prequels the Franchise is OPENED UP to Beyond the Confines of the Zeta 2 System.
This Topic was trying to look at what could be meant by the ALIEN V Project that Walter Hill and David Giler are working on. Certainly seems to be about RIPLEY and Certainly would see some MOVIES are going to be SHOWN to have ONLY been Dreams.
with David and Walter (Producers) their Focus seemed to be more on the Conspiracy/Agenda of the Companies who WISH to obtain the Xenomorph and A.I it will be Interesting to Discovery what is the FOCUS of their ALIEN V Project.
But the Tag Line "In Space No One Can Hear you Dream" seems to be a Good Indication of the Focus.
I just am NOT sure HOW they going to Pull this Off if we are going to have Quite a LOT of Screen Time with Ripley.
So she will be ALIVE... but then its HOW do they get around that she would be like 30+ Years Older than she was in the Franchise. It surely could not be PUT DOWN to she has Aged that Much while in Cryo-sleep as we have to ASSUME that while in Cryo-sleep then your Body Ages at a MUCH LOWER RATE.
Lets HOPE they dont go FULL MATRIX!
The Xenomorph has Captured Ripley, she is Cocooned for some Purpose, and the Xenomorph has Implanted a False Life/Memory and Dreams in HER...
Does she AWAKEN to be in some kind of ALIEN like Labyrinth? Or in a Weyland-Yutani Lab?
Or a Mental Institute?
The Question comes down to WHAT are they going to do with a NEW ALIEN Franchise?
I think the Pickle with the Prequels is that it SEEMED to Steer Away from ALIEN for the Fans, and come down to more about Certain THEMES which we see as a Continuation with David.. and having HIM go and Create the Xenomorph while it FITS those THEMES. It just is NOT as ALIEN as the Origins we could have IMAGINED before we got the Prequels and we would NOT have Imagined the Prequels to be about Creation/Rebellion Themes that some MAY FEEL should have been KEPT to say Blade Runner.
I doubt this ALIEN V would be much about those THEMES, well i dont think it would be much Connected it at ALL to the Prequels.
so its OK and WHAT do they think the ALIEN Franchise would NEED AGAIN?
It seems that is RIPLEY.... and then WHAT?
We have to ASSUME it will be the Xenomorph again, but i AGREE 100% with Ridley Scott on this, there would be ONLY so much Egg Laying, Face Raping, Chest Bursting and Snarling that you can do..... BEFORE it gets Stale, Cooked or a Joke!
You would have to EVOLVE it, Change either it Aesthetically a Bit, what it can DO, or Uplift them Beyond basically being Space Ants/Termites/Rodents.
Or you look into WHAT it is that the Company can Finally do when they OBTAIN a Specimen beyond seeing it GET OUT OF CONTROL ;)
The Prequels gave the Franchise more LEGS to Stand On and more to Explore, but it was NOT really Executed to the Potential (thanks to AC in Part). If the Prequels are to be IGNORED then its a CASE of what can they do more than give us Eggs and Xenomorphs.
Because the Xenomorph on its OWN only has TWO Legs and well its maybe come down to Standing on its LAST LEG!
They will be BACK ;)
I already gave my TWO CENTS on this HERE
Basically i think it was OK that we had Subjects on this Forum in regards to RBW, as it was a bit more Relevant to the kind of Sci-Fi that some ALIEN Fans would go and WATCH, but i also AGREE that it Needed its OWN part of the SITE as having 1-2 Subjects on the Matter is Fine, but if there becomes Many then it could CLOG UP the ALIEN Forums with None-Related Subjects.
