Comments (Page 721)

also, we are not saying that we know anything. these are theories. not solid statements

I will give you that it looks almost exactly like a deacon but the timelines and their lifecycle simply dosn't match up. perhaps it is something very similar to the deacon exept with the human dna in the deacon subsatuted with engineer dan. it would still technichly be a different species though.

What was chasing the Engineers as well so? It made literally the exact same noise as the deacon and they have a mural of a 15ft deacon behind the alter? At the end of the day, no one knows so stop pretending that you do please 

I love the way people on here go on as if they're Ridley Scott, it's actually hilarious 

What is the mural behind the alter so? 

SpaceJOC: for there to be a deacon on lv223 before prometheous,  would be nearly impossible. first a human would have to drink some black goo then procreate with another human within the time that he or she turns into a weird black goo zombie. then the trilobite would have to find a way to a nearby engineer and latch onto it. this seems like a completely unique event that would probably never happen before or after prometheous. this would be even more difficult to have a deacon be on lv223 before the humans ever arrived  because first of all, humans are the first 2 steps in its birth and the person would ether have to be to stupid or drunk to notice that they are drinking an unknown alien substance. that whole senario is impossible. 

on a side note, if deacons supposedly were already there, the movie pased up a big oprotunitie ti show deacons in prometheous throughout to add actually horror to the otherwise completly sci fi movie. it would have actually told us a bit about the engineers to.

oh.

Yes you can see it if you look closely nearing the end of the film.

There is nothing in the novel that covers it either. We have very little information on it but it is defo on the ground before the valley

Joined just so I could say I really like this:

<< So why did David hate the Engineers ?

Personally I think there was a much more sophisticated way of blending science fiction and the issues that David faces here it is ?

The Crossing Is Correct  [...]  >>

Not perfect, but so much better than what the movie proposed.

Ridley Scott's The Counselor was so exceptionally bad compared to the rest of his movies, that I'm kind of not surprised.  Whatever happened there, seems to have happened with Prometheus and Covenant to a lesser degree.

I'm really hoping Forever War is further to the Blade Runner and Alien end of the spectrum.

@Biodegradable:

<< This is not my observation, but I heard it first from Mark Kermode, who is incidentally a very good film critic, and the point he made regarding Prometheus and the Covenant is that Ridley Scott is only as good as the script allows him to be. Ridley himself admitted on a number of ocations, that for him the most difficult part is the story. >>

I was going to reply with something like this but reconsidered that I might be pushing it with anecdotal hearsay .  But yes, I heard the same thing from a relative who works in/around Hollywood: "The Counselor is what happens when a good director only has a bad script."

It crashed, located in the valley behind the city

2. By all accounts they are running from a Deacon, like the one behind the alter, I thought this was common knowledge at this stage!David just perfected the xenomorph from what the Engineers already had accomplished, it's been mentioned literally a thousand times on the site

I don't think it has anything to do with beetles to be honest! Way off in my opinion 

I would keep prometheous pretty much how it is exept having the deacon come out of the engineer earlyer so it could chase shaw and davids head around and give us some lagit horror.

for covenant i would keep the general plot the same but change the xenomorphs creation. instead of david killing and dissecting shaw, after bombing the engineers, shaw escapes from him and hides out in the destroyed engineer temple. then when the covenant gets attacked by the neomorphs, shaw resques them instead of david. from there, the neomorphs hunt them down while shaw gives the crew explanations. meanwhile david is experimenting on the neomorphs and ceates the xenomorph by weaponizing the neomorph. ( i am thinking is somehow a newborn neomorph is like dipped in black goo or something) the group finally bumps into david who would eventually fight waltr but instead of having david live and walter die, david would convince walter to carrie on his work right as david is killed somehow. very flimsy plot that I sort of just thought up now. dont judge

i thought that the trilobite was interesting enough but something about it just din't seem gigeresque if you know what I mean. when it was born, it looked like a mutant squid, although the abortion was amasingly intense.

@BigDave, David was lacking the 'essential ingredient' in making a xenomorph embryo. It makes more sense to have facehugger embryos to hand, as was the case in the movie. These specimens could have been prepared years earlier.

"no character building". That's plain ridiculous. Many characters in the movie have distinct personalities that are well developed. Was David's character developed any less than, say, Lambert's in the movie Alien? Was Oram's obsession with religion and belief any less developed than Dallas's attitude towards science? Was Lopé's focus on security any less developed than Brett's laissez faire concern about money? I could go on. And on.

"ridiculous pacing". It is true that the end was too rushed. It should have been a 2.5 hour movie, but these are very very rare in Hollywood these days.

"wtf were the engineers?". There is endless speculation about Engineer society, their motivations and history. This movie thankfully does not dwell on that to any great extent. It will be expanded upon in one or more further movies.

Just give me believable characters that aren't space chimps. Like they actually behave like professionals wether a soldier or scientists. Combine those two and you have an astronaut, basically. Someone able to function at a high level without having major character flaws like the 'doubting fool Christian ' and NO lazy writing like Covvy.  Don't use tropes like the radios don't work or not wearing space suits as protection. Make the moment scary with working radios and clear terror filled communication or the virus cleverly still manages to get through the space suit somehow. Unfortunately if Ridley is at the helm he will just force his scattered impromptu ideals into making another mess. Tired of pretentious cràp but it does make Prometheus shine brightest of the two stars. And less androids, jeepers. 

Pan camera across ship showing David eviscerated by wild xenos then show some awakened colonists hiding and preparing for a fight before automated landing. Then bring in the enginneers and Wetland Yutani into the mix and everybody chases back to LV223 for more survival and terror. Get back to Aliens roots or go balls deep with Prometheus. Cheap budget with no Fassbinder and no big name actors and I'd have 'Get Out' director make it or 'It Comes at Night '

The notion that David 'uploaded' himself into Walter's body is entirely fanciful and completely unnecessary. David simply beat him in the fight, with a sneaky use of the knife, that's all. He already took the time to cut and dye his hair some time earlier so that he resembled Walter more closely. All part of a contingency plan in his twisted mind.

Other than being too big, I liked the Trilobite. I definitely would like to know what happened to the Deacon. Hopefully it would be a fully-developed part of a movie, but a shorter stand-alone video would suffice. Ultimately, it would really be nice if the connection between the Mural and the Deacon was explained.

sherris, David I think could have had the embryos in him the whole time; he was their incubator.

@rob clayton - We got Ridley's "director's cut" in the theaters, so I assume you mean an extended cut. I think if Ridley wanted to do one, it would have already been announced. When asked about deleted scene back in May it did not sound like there was anything he thought worth keeping.

Well i think some of the speculation and theories i was coming to are what was explored in part at some point in Production ;)

It appears from these that Females... and more so Human looking Females played a VERY Important Role.

The Cathedral was a Important Central Place on Paradise/Planet 4, it was where the Engineers kept all their knowledge, it was interpreted by some on Set that the inside had a whole Sacrifice Look to it, with a Table with Groves to Drain Blood and a Sacrificial Knife.

This place had the Hall of Heads/Hierarchy inside and superior beings the  Apostles/Wise Men.

I find it very interesting how TWO concepts for this Place, by TWO different Artist both have Human looking Females on the Doors to this Complex

Had a lot of theories and debates leading upto AC for sure, and seems a number are off...   What Killed the Engineers Debates

However my theories on that could still apply as far as a Potential Fail Safe to Davids attack either carried out on the Scorpion Ship, or the Cathedral Dome.   As far as the effects of the Black Goo on those Engineers.

But since AC, i have my NUKE Theory ;)

Some of my theories are within the Ball Park though, one of my theories i made a topic on was not quite covered, or close.. However recently Concept work came out.

It appears at this Stage of Production... my Females theory is indeed pretty accurate if not what they was going for ;)

One Topic i covered HERE

Back Early December, bare in mind those Concept Images only came out the last few weeks.... my theory was reading into Covenants Set Clues, some my theories prior and also what the Source i had 2.5 years ago had hinted towards. ;)

Indeed, thats why my idea is the only one i would like to see if they do go this route because it takes care of the LV-223 Plot Hole at the same time and its a One Off Event... a One Way Ticket to LV-426

But ideally i would hope they have other plans... right now its a tricky one because of the Time Line... you see if we assume the Engineers dont turn up right away.. as well if they arrive not long after AC then surely they would intercept David before he gets to Origae-6

I think RS will take us to Origae-6 which means the year December 2111 or early 2112, which means the Covenant to then get to LV-223/426 would surely take a considerable time, which means the Derelict would then have to be on LV-426 for say up to 5 years tops

Unless the Engineers arrive on Origae-6 Post year 2112 and 10 years prior to Alien (And i think this is exactly where we will be).   Then these Engineers end up on LV-426 which surely why would they do that? so they must end up going to or leaving LV-223 at some point in the 10 years prior to Alien.

But they could indeed U-Turn and reveal the Derelict and those Eggs being Ancient, but i feel the Engineers will take a Interest in Davids creations and try to obtain them or even Re-Engineer them and this Hubris leads to the Derelict.

I just hope they dont Trope/Shoe-horn this so that Origae-6 is another Engineer related Outpost... but i guess this could bring about the Alien Covenant Poster ;)

I will say covering my plans would be MASSIVE Post.... some Scenes i had fully written out lol....

The opening Scene was like Prometheus in reverse.. we see a Juggernaught type ship leaving a World, we get the Camera view of the Ship flying over a Landscape like Prometheus beginning, as it pans over the lake we see animals down bellow, and then we see a Shadow and then see the Juggernaught shaped craft leaving... it enters Space...  We go inside and see a Engineer and he makes a Destination to what looks like LV-223 on the Navigation System,  then he starts walking over to a Cryo-Pod  he peers inside.

And inside is a Early Primate Female, we look into her Brown Eyes... This Scene then changes to a Human Females Brown Eyes.... Dr Shaw....  we then flash to Davids Face..  he is looking at Dr Shaw... wondering what she is dreaming..

He cant read her Dreams no more, as he lacks that Technology... so he is pondering....  We then Flash to David Day Dreaming about Peter Weyland and a Few Scenes of Davids past.. that was similar but different to Alien Covenants.. I wont go into detail as it take a lot of space lol

Then David comes out of his dream, and looks at Dr Shaw.. and we then Flash to Dr Shaw having a Dream. 

Next Scene is in the Company Board Room... 

The Purpose of the Primate Scene, was to show the Engineers came back to Earth and took Primates to LV-223 to Evolve and then return to seed them back and so they continue to do this over and over, using LV-223 as a Greenhouse/Nursery where they Evolved and Experiment on created life and then when pleased they send the results back to Earth.

Hence why the Place was Terra-formed for Mankind to breath on.

i like dk's idea of the origin of ash. 

Ha ha.... ill get back to you on this ;)

I could try to in a nutshell post my Plot for my in work Prometheus 2, which i abandoned as i could not really Nail down One route to explore the Whole Engineer Agenda...

My Plot did revolve around 20-25% David and Shaw, 10-15% Engineers History/Flash Backs.... 60% the Corporate goings on behind the Scenes in the Fall-out of Weyland losing its CEO and next in Line CEO...  and the Weyland-Yutani Merger... The Rest Set up a few Scenes to link to a Sequel.. where a Mission to LV-223 is Set... and David and Shaw's turn of event takes a turn when David throws Shaw under the Bus. So to speak

The whole Engineer one was tricky... which the next draft would have covered more... One of 3-4 versions of how to cover this.. i may indeed highlight in this post...

It would be a Sumerian Gods/Mythos... Meets HR Gigers Original Ideas but then my other ideas are also quite cool but just wont really match or connect with the other so i just Gave Up  in December 2013

I wont contribute to the What David knew what the Company does at this point, as i want to concentrate my reply only on the Face Huggers.

Firstly... indeed Brian51 its a bit of Bad Writing  but as with a lot of Bad Written Plot Points which include in Prometheus.. many are there for a easier way to drive a Plot.

It was just convenient that David got Small Face Huggers, that just by Coinsidence could fit inside the Embryo Pods from the Covenant... as we see Walter removed some, i can only assume the capsules Walter had on him...  but then WHY carry them on him.... maybe this could go into a secret company/AI Agenda where Walter had Programing he was not aware of? Who knows.

But regardless i think we need to look at now David has TWO Embryos... i feel this is flawed and having TWO Xenomorph Embryos would have made more Sense.....

But i guess RS/FOX want to go the route of showing us someone getting Face Hugged all over again.

So a lot depends where they are going with how THESE Face Huggers lead to the THOUSANDS of Eggs on the Derelict... If they eventually do.

The Franchise has showed us TWO Procreation Methods..

1) Alien DC.. The Egg Morph

2) Aliens... The Queen

We can and have before Speculated how a Queen came about, my personal theory is the Egg Morph = Queen, but i think RS will no be going the Queen Route, and i feel he wants to put his own Stamp and so i think a Egg Morph route or similar could come into play.

The other Option is if David has Tools on the Covenant to experiment with the Face Huggers and Clone or Genetically incorporate their DNA into the other Embryos.  I think this is a possible route they could take too.

The Black Goo indeed could be used on those Face Huggers and then Humans to create more Organisms, but i dont think they will show David returning to Planet 4, maybe he is concerned over Walter but i would assume Walter is so incapacitated to be a threat.... unless he was just out for long enough to steal his clothes.

David clearly is in no Danger from the Organisms on Planet 4, as he had conducted a lot of experiments with no consequences to himself.

David could go to LV-223 to get more Urns, but then surely he has enough stuff on Planet 4 and so why not go there again... The only THING David lacks is a Juggernaught Ship..  maybe thats a reason to go to LV-223

But i feel RS will be showing us that David heads to Origae-6, the Question is during the 7 years what would David be up to?

The Trilobite seemed to be more closer to the Original idea from Star Beast and indeed Alien Engineers, as this draft seemed to show that the Engineers had Re-Engineered the Organism that infected Holloway to create the Xenomorph.

I for one thought the Trilobite was interesting, the Deacon i felt did not look as Terrifying as a Xenomorph or Neomorph, but as i put in my previous post.... its part Mammal and so will likely grow to 3-4X the Size, maybe its Body Could change a little and it could look more Aggressive.

The Creature would have to reach some kind of Sexual Maturity Stage, where it can Procreate and this opens the Door for a Horrific Procreation, or even growing some extra body parts that aid to its Procreation.

Maybe when it Matures, it evolves more Xenomorph DNA, the possibilities were there for the Deacon to become a very Fearful Monster

Jim Pills Absolutely! Don't forget the bundled version with the Qudrilogy and Prometheus- the Definitive Completest Edition in an elegant box.

Time travel this many movies into the series would be a huge disappointment. It is the magic wand to explain plot holes and seems plain lazy to me. It is a sign the series needs to end or at least not try to lead up to Alien.

I think a lot of Fans would have wanted to see what becomes of the Deacon, i have had many discussions about it... some felt it was like not very Scary..... then i said this is a Human/Xeno Face Hugger Hybrid Birthed via Engineer Hybrid.

A Wolf Pup is Cute, a Bear Cub is Cute and so is a Lion Cub, these are all Mammal Based too and so the Deacon has Mammal DNA,  and so indeed look at how intimidating those Animals above are when Adult and Pissed off...   so the Deacon could evolve into something quite terrifying.  Also by going through the Average Mammal Birth to Adult Growth Size...  The Deacon would grow to about 16-18ft Tall

So i think indeed it would have been interesting to see the Deacon again... But ALAS it was just a Plot Device for Prometheus to show us how the Black Goo connects to the Xenomorph DNA.

Will we see the Deacon?  Maybe who knows... i think LV-223 is a continuity Error at the Moment

This place has to be destroyed by the time of Alien... and also with RS confirming Engineers return and will be intercepting David 8, well its hinted at this... and if David is off to Origae-6 which its hinted at.

Eventually some Engineer Ship (which David does not have) has to interact with Davids Eggs and then end up on LV-426 which i find would be more than a Coincidence if a Engineer ship is heading to Earth or some other place and just happens to pass and land on LV-426... Nope... its more Logical this Ship is either going to LV-223 or leaving LV-223 by the time the Event that leads to the Derelict Crash that appears in Alien

So yes i think a return to LV-223 could be likely, and if FOX/RS listens the fans, maybe they could show us the Deacon?

I thought David might be an anti hero- WRONG.

I thought Walter would prevail- WRONG.

I figure I will be wrong about Awakening and will try to not get so involved in theories- especially with very misleading teasers.

I'm with Starlogger. I thought the Deacon was little more than Xeno fan service. I wasn't really impressed with its appearance wither. The trilobite was laughably huge imo.

Regarding the Poster....

Yep what a mess that was... marketing gone wrong, unless they choose to show is this is a upcoming Event, or a Past Event.

It mislead us to think this is what maybe happened to those Engineers, when clearly we see this does not seem to be the case.

There are some reports the Prometheus Mural was the same, it was just a Cool Easter Egg and in NO-Way was intended to be connected at all

Yet the Mural can connect... so its interesting to debate how the Poster could do also.

PS This Poster does fit with some of the clues the Source i had 2.5 years ago had said regarding the Fate of the Engineers.

That's kind of a tough one for a movie I thought needed no prequel. I think it would be interesting to see what the Company was doing with its research and also of how the Ash model came about.

I dont think Time Travel is at play and it would open up the whole Mess of a Terminator kind of Plot... by that as far as constantly going back in time....

Surely the Engineers could just go back prior to the Outbreak or even Creation of Mankind and Undo these events?

The Mural in Prometheus shows us a Deacon like Organism, the Deacon at the end is a off-shoot of this Mural Organism, i think the Mural Deacon's DNA is contained within the Urns.

I think the Engineers encountered a Parasite Many Thousands of years ago, that is maybe via a Punishment or became a Punishment from a Hubris Accident of messing around with the Creation Tool that was the Sacrificial Goo when a contamination had happened... resulting in the Fresco Organism.  The Engineers then experimented on this just as David had been with his experiments on Paradise until the Deacon Mural was the Creation they had Perfected.

The Space Jockey is a tricky one, they appeared to had been going the route of this being a Ancient Event related to the Outbreak or a event indeed connected a few hundred years prior or post.

Things look to be changed now, and so they will have to explain why the Space Jockey looks the way it does, but i think as i have covered for years... the Suits are Bio-Mechanical and Part Organic and i feel the Suits Die, in a way like a Cactus does. Where its once Leathery Rubbery Feel (Green Cactus/Grey Engineer suits) will decay fast to a Lighter, Dried out Carcass.

The only way to tackle Time Travel is how i had mentioned a while ago... a Engineer Elder, intercepts and ends up with a Ship and those Eggs, this Engineer Destroys LV-223 so that Mankind or anyone else can not obtain the Black Goo and all those Horrors and Technology...  The Force of this Event... as massive Blast Tears a Whole in Time/Space where the Elder Engineers Ship travels through and ends up thus Crash Landing on LV-426 back in Time.

The Tear in Space is a One Off Event and not no Technology, so it would be like the Theory that if the LHC goes wrong it could destruct and then open up a Black Hole/Worm Hole etc.

This ^^^^^ could work... but i think they will not explore this and so we have to accept the Space Jockey had been on LV-426 for say 2-7 years prior to Alien.

As far as David 8 goes, i think he connects to Rachael in Blade Runner... in a way...

The opening Scene in Alien Covenant is likely in 2025, the first David and as the Prototype, Weyland when he advances the Technology has the Prototypes Memories and Experiences uploaded to the next Prototype...   And so David 8 has been the last incarnation of that Personal David since 2070, where a 2 year trial of David 8's was tested before taking Pre-Orders in December 2072

This is why i think Blade Runner and Alien are not in the same Timeline.... Weyland wants to be Immortal, and its my long time theory that Weylands Agenda with David  was that if Weyland could one day be able to transfer his own Soul into a AI Program and upload it to a David Model, then Weyland would have conquered Death and been Immortal

Yet in the Blade Runner Universe Mankind has had a way to transfer a Humans Memories into Replicants and so WHY would Weyland want to Pursue his own AI and ambition to Meet the Engineers, when its possible he could indeed as far as Blade Runner goes... transfer his Memories into a Clone or Replicant

I think the movies are similar only in terms of how they deal with Creation/AI   The Source from 2.5 years ago said that the Prometheus 2 would touch upon themes and be similar to Blade Runner and The Matrix.  And i think to a degree AC has touched upon these a little...  So it will be interesting to see how the Engineers fit within the Blade Runner/Matrix kind of PLOT.

I think RS will be just linking them in a Easter Egg kind of way but show us the Themes are Very Connected.

What happened to the Replicants is happening to David 8, and also maybe what happened to the Engineers on LV-223, but its not to say they are directly going to connect as indeed as Kethol states the Time-Lines do not add up.

The Technologies in Blade Runner are more Advanced Time-wise,  we have indeed found and colonized other worlds way before the year 2019,  the World of Blade Runner seems to match that of the Alien Timeline at least 50 years prior.

so there is a good 50-75 year kind of Technology gap.

As far as how Advanced the Replicants are.. and how it could fit with the Alien Franchise, it could do but its not to say it will.

You see Replicants are just Genetically Engineered and Modified Humans, Clones who are evolved Genetically, their Genomes evolved to make them immune to Illness and Diseases of Mankind, they are Engineered to be Faster, Stronger too, but they are not intended to Replace Mankind but to Serve a Purpose.

They are in effect created for the same reasons that David was created, i think its more plausible that Science could Genetically Engineer Super Humans more easier than creating Synthetic Androids who look like David 8

But as Replicants are in effect Modified Humans, they have the ability over time to evolve Emotionally, which is a concern for Tyrell and hence the Nexus 6 Built in limited Life Span.  Some Replicants started to see themselves as more than just TOOLS created to serve Mankind.  Hence the Rebellion in 2017

The New Movie seems to be going the route that Deckard could be a different Model Replicant who lacks the Super Strength and Speed, but has Emotions and Memories of a Human.  Seems maybe the Nexus 8 (Engineer looking beings) are a new Crop who have the Strengths of the Nexus 6 Models but without the limited Life-Span.

So in THEORY... indeed Replicants could be created before Advanced Androids, and it  is the Problems of the Replicants that would allow companies to then consider scraping these and instead pursuing Synthetic Androids instead.

so its a interesting Contrast.... because Replicants are very similar to Luke Scotts 2016 Movie Morgan where as David 8 is more like AVA from  Ex Machina 2014

We can see how Mankind could go from ditching Super Humans, in return for Androids, and the Alien Franchise is starting to show us that in Hubris.. Mankind should Ditch the Synthetic Androids and only use more simple and basic Robots instead.

I think the Engineers could connect by Theme, in that maybe the Sacrificial Engineer/LV-223 Engineers are to the Engineers what indeed Morgan/Replicants are to Humans.  If they go this route i think it certainly be interesting in the Alien Franchise.

Its kind of what the Source hinted to me 2.5 years ago.

6) I think the Prometheus scene is to show how these Engineers create life, well at least how they are USED to create Life, and this Scene is showing us this is there purpose and its something that has taken place on Many Worlds for Many Many years.. The Sacrificial Scene could be over a Billion years old, Millions, Thousands and could even be happening in the Time-line as of Alien Covenant.

LV-223 is of great importance, its not where these beings came from, but its a place they visited Earth From, and its seen as connected to the Prometheus Mythos.

How? its open to debate, we can connect the Biblical Tale too, and how Mankind was created after Gods previous Creation (Angels) had become or proved some could be Rebellious and against GOD and his ways, and they was punished, they was kicked out of Heaven and Turned into hideous Monsters.

Satan had then chosen to corrupt Mankind by tricking them to gaining Forbidden Knowledge not intended for Mankind, which resulted in Mankind being expelled from Paradise.

So maybe the LV-223 Engineers Rebelled against their purpose, had been kicked out of Paradise but had obtained the Technology of their Hierarchy and they either Created Mankind against the Will of the Hierarchy or Evolved Mankind to a Level against the wishes of the Hierarchy are are punished... (LV-223 Fresco)

Or maybe it was their theft and misuse of the Forbidden Technology that lead to their Hubris where this Technology (Sacrificial Goo) got infected and contaminated and leads to the Fresco.... which these beings then start to Worship and Re-engineer.

Again this is just my interpretation though.

As far as why they did not interact with Mankind, as far as those on Paradise, maybe those above the Engineers are not aware of Mankind, and LV-223? If they are maybe they decided to make a Covenant to never attempt what they did due to how costly this proved and to merely Abandon us and leave us to destroy ourselves.

These beings arrogance is they felt without the Engineers/Hierarchy Help and Teachings we would revert back to Cavemen... well we would not Evolve and Advance to the Level we had done so.

I think this is why those Paradise beings live more Ancient Lives, because the Hierarchy has them kept to this Technological Level out of fear that they could overthrow them if they are allowed to be Technologically advanced.

The Technology is limited to those few selected for a certain purpose, who watch over those beings on Paradise.