Forum Topic
Xenomorph King
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 4:48 PMHi, guys and girls. I’m new here, so be please go easy on me. LOL.
I don’t know if a topic like this has been posted before, or whether there’s been any sort of discussion about this, but, as a gay [i]Alien[/i] fan (a rare breed?), I’d like to know how you’d feel about same-sex relationships (romantic or strictly sexual) in [i]Prometheus[/i] or any future [i]Alien[/i]-related movie. The reason why I ask this is because I was listening to the [i]Alien[/i] audio commentary ([i]Alien Quadrilogy[/i] edition) the other day, and about the 1:15:36 mark Ridley Scott begins to (surprisingly enough) talk about casual relationships of both a hetero- and homosexual nature in space.
I include here my transcription of this particular bit of the audio commentary.
Ridley Scott: “I thought, Why not? Relationships would be discouraged. You know, the idea of casual sex would be normal – for obvious reasons. ’Cause if you’ve got seven on board, someone’s gonna get left out. Right? And so, casual relationships – whether it’s male or female, male with male, female with female – seems to be okay in space when you’re locked away in a big tin can for years on end. Could be years, plus hypersleep. So it might feel like a year. You might be away ten years. So I tried to instigate that, and there was a suggestion of that with Dallas and with Veronica. An idea of, ‘Should we infer something here? Should we have an inference of, you know, a lesbian, a gay relationship or not?’ It would have been kind of interesting. Today I’d probably do that, just to thicken up the layers in the characters.”
Now, I’m not saying that Ridley will go as far as to do something like this with such a massively expensive, high-profile film project as [i]Prometheus[/i] (or, rather, that the film studio would permit such a thing), but again, as a gay fan, I’d dearly like to see some variation in a genre that consists of mainly heterosexual relationships. I mean, not everyone is heterosexual, right?
So, would you be alienated (excuse the pun) by even the “inference” of a same-sex casual or romantic relationship in a film like [i]Prometheus[/i]?
52 Replies
Heustess
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 4:54 PMWhy not? But the thing is that Holoway is paired to Shaw. Well let's wait for it and see...
"mean, not everyone is heterosexual, right?
So, would you be alienated (excuse the pun) by even the “inference” of a same-sex casual or romantic relationship in a film like Prometheus?"
No. Why?
Xenomorph King
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 5:05 PMAh, yes. I've read that Shaw is (supposedly) a character of strong Christian faith. But how about the others, the minor characters? Absolutely no need for it to be front and center.
shardy
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 5:07 PM@Xenomorph King: thank you for posting
the interview with Ridley on this particular issue
i had no idea he said this about sexual relations in his universe,
since most directors tend to exclude or shy away from the concept of
same sex relations in sci-films, the fact that Ridley is / was bold enough
to be a more forward thinking director / storyteller just further validates
my respect not only for him as a storyteller, but as a human being as well
with that said, on a personal note, i think the site of 2 women together
in a film like this is now quite acceptable, whereas 2 males together, whether it
be a casual interaction, or full on sex would just turn the majority of American
audiences off in the context of a sci-fi film
i don't foresee any same sex relations of characters in PROMETHEUS,
but it could be possible, too early for me to say for certain, but i doubt it
if Ridley did have some same sex oriented characters in this film,
or possible a sequel to this film, particularly if said characters were males,
i'd hope that Scott would further push the envelope and make them both
strong aggressive virile males, rather than the stereotypical effeminate men
that seems to be the only way to portray a same sex character on film in
most cases
in any case, interesting topic Xenomorph King
Xenomorph King
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 5:08 PMLOL. I wish I could take credit for that idea, Wirrn, but it was Ridley's. The man is a marvel. Glad to know at least one heterosexual is in favor.
Xenomorph King
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 5:14 PMMy sentiments [i]exactly[/i], Shardy! Beautifully put! I, too, don't foresee same-sex relationships being featured in Prometheus, but hey, I can hope.
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 5:36 PMAs long as it was contextualized within the story- I really don't think it would bother me. Homosexuality has been around longer than the Bible itself- and I feel that the majority of religions use it as an excuse to incite hatred against gay people and as an example of an 'evil against Dog' (pun intended) yet when young boys are molested by Catholic preists, it's hushed up and nothing usually happens to the pervert responsible.
[url=http://www.robocopmovie.net/][img]http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac89/snorkelbottom/NewRoboBanner.jpg[/img][/url]
"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
Xenomorph King
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 5:36 PMI'm very much aware of the existence of gay Christians, Wirrn, what with me being one and all. However, in my experience, I find that Christianity is, as a tradition, overwhelmingly anti-gay. So much so that I sometimes equate Christianity with homophobia. Wrong, I know. But anyway . . . I'd rather not get into the topic of Christianity in regards to homosexuality. Far too many potholes down that road.
Xenomorph King
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 5:41 PMSame here, Cypher. I'd prefer for it to be contextualized as you say. I'm thinking of it existing in the background, not center stage. As Ridley said, "to thicken up the layers in the characters".
Infidel753
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 5:59 PMI'd think that, in the US or Europe, the kind of person who'd seriously object to a gay relationship being depicted would probably not be the sort of person who'd be a fan of movies like the [b]Alien[/b] series in the first place. It might be more of a problem in some other markets like the Middle East or Chinese-speaking countries, though.
Personally I certainly wouldn't have any objection to it. Surely by the late 21st century the prejudice against such relationships will be a thing of the past. It probably shouldn't be a major plot element, though, unless it's really necessary to the story -- just as the heterosexual relationships haven't been.
shardy
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 6:00 PM@Wirm: agreed. i once spoke with a woman who's brain was basically
a living history book, she explained to me that same sex relations between
men were not at all "strange" or "evil" as American culture has so forcefully
taught me
she also explained a bit about the Illiad, but more so about
Alexander The Great, etc..i can't recall too much of what she said,
just that same sex relations between strong men were far more prevalent
than i was ever taught in school, and at home
i also agree about the context of same sex oriented characters in
the film, not just there for the "shock" value, but there to add something
more complex to whatever story is trying to be told
thinking about this topic, in regards to sci-fi,
i look to Star Trek: The Next Generation and all its great spinoff series,
for having such an ADVANCED mindset in all those greats TV series, they
pretty much told me that opposite sex relations was it, there was one episode
that dealt with sexuality, but that character was androgynes, and didn't really
address what i thought for sure such an advanced human culture would have
achieved by that time
ah well..
Infidel753
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 6:15 PMI know this isn't at all what you had in mind, but Scott in the original [b]Alien[/b] already made something of a breach in the taboo on homosexual references, by making a male character the victim of the facehugger attack / impregnation (an obvious rape metaphor).
More generally, SF has often being on the cutting edge of challenging prejudices. I've heard that the first inter-racial kiss shown on TV was on [b]Star Trek[/b], for example, but when that was considered taboo. The relationship between Dr. Who and his "companions" is ambiguous, but they're usually suspiciously young and attractive, and a few of them have been male.
Neurion
Veteran MemberMemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 7:40 PM@Xenomorph King
Well that’s an interesting topic and question bud. Being a heterosexual guy, I’d have to say that for the filmmakers to include such a relationship would be a huge cinematic turn off to me…however realistic it might be. Now, I don’t fear homosexuality, therefore I would not call myself a “homophobic” person. And not to come across as insulting or intolerant, but I do think that it is a disordered behavior. I personally believe that nature itself, very obviously bares out that argument.
Thing is…folks pick and choose what aspects of nature that they want to abide by, and the ones that they don’t. The fact of the matter is that the bulk of the population on our planet are still heterosexual, and are therefore generally turned off by notions of explicit Homosexual relationships and or activities.
Although, many of elements in the ALIEN films are kind of known for being subversive, offbeat, strange, foreign, queer….and well…Alien. So maybe eventually, an "ALIEN universe" film could be a perfect home for such references and actions…it just wouldn’t be my personal druthers.
Anyway, that’s sort of my take on subject.
Neurion
brego
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 7:48 PMInteresting. As the Alien series is set well in the future (as is Star Trek) mankinds thoughts on such things as same sex relationships or marriage would be greatly different than that of today. As a gay man I laugh everytime this topic pops up, because for me, in Australia, its really not that much of an issue.
Re Christianity, I couldnt care less what they think because Im an Evolutionist. Christians, and for that matter people of most faiths have some very strange, archaic ideas that simply dont seems to go away. Its funny that we live in so called modern times and yet there are still people (sorry America) who think the Earth is only a few thousand years old. Come to think of it, prometheus is gonna piss a lot of these people off, nothing to do with sexual orientation, more to do with Creationism.
Necrofan
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 7:53 PMIf you study Giger's art, a lot of his images have strong sexual connotations, but it's hard to tell what kind. Definitely not heterosexual. Not homosexual per se. ALIEN sexual. I seem to remember a lot being made of the sexual innuendo in the original Alien movie. So it would not surprise me at all. Nor would it ruin any story.
humanityFTW
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 8:37 PMInteresting idea indeed, and i like it. I have to laugh and sort of wonder about a space jockey being currious about its creations (if thats the case) and has its way with both male and female, I actually think that has a giger twist in it (Alien and human orientated).
Alien Drone
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 9:45 PMWhy can't we just have a great scifi movie without all the stuff about whether someone is sraight or gay, what difference does it make about the movie? How about if we have neither, then no one has to get upset either way and you pull a bigger audience into it.
I could care less whether the entire crew is gay or straight, why would it even matter, like the facehugger or alien is really going to care before they attack one of the crew is gay or straight? All they want is fresh meat apparently. They seem to be equal opportunity for all races and sexual preferences.
genjitsu17
MemberOvomorphMar-25-2012 11:35 PMThe future will hopefully be a more tolerant place. I think it's a cool idea. We ain't going nowhere, and I'm pretty good with a pulse rifle.
I may work for the company, but im really an OK guy.
Myrddin365
MemberFacehuggerMar-26-2012 1:00 AMIt's realistic to have casual sex on these long hauls. Its also realistic that if the girls aren't into everybody, then they might have to explore other options when all you do is haul cargo from here to there for years of your life. Homosexuality is just as likely in space truckers as it is any other population. That would make it an exception. If you are trying to have a look at an average group then it is statistically unlikely that a homosexual would be among them.
If one crew member was gay, it wouldn't bother me, but it would seem tacked on or forced in most cases. Kinda like Dumbledore being gay.
Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!
Xenomorph King
MemberOvomorphMar-26-2012 3:09 AMThanks for contributing your take on the subject, Neurion.
Xenomorph King
MemberOvomorphMar-26-2012 3:20 AMI agree, Brego. However, here in South Africa, despite being the only country on the African continent that permits same-sex marriage, there is still a lot of prejudice all around. Then again, isn't South Africa kind of famous for its showcase of prejudice? I wish we could be more like you guys Down Under.
Interesting that you bring up Evolutionism. I'm both a Christian and a believer in evolution. But hey, since I'm gay and a Christian, why not add to the contradictions. LOL.
I want to believe that, even though [i]Prometheus[/i] is a work of fiction, it will present profound ideas to its audience. I hope it makes people think.
Xenomorph King
MemberOvomorphMar-26-2012 3:37 AMBecause, Alien Drone, most of the characters in these movies are humans, and sexual orientation is an integral component of human behavior. In my opinion, any character devoid of even a suggestion of sexuality would come across as being rather flat. To try to omit it (and make everyone asexual) just to please the masses would be, again in my opinion, silly and cowardly. To repeat, as Ridley Scott said, all of that was just "to thicken up the layers in the characters". Be inclusive, I say.
Xenomorph King
MemberOvomorphMar-26-2012 3:44 AMI have to disagree with the unlikely part, Myrddin365. I believe that there are many more homosexual (and let's not forget bisexual) people than is immediately apparent. I might even go as far as to say that most homosexuals are closeted. It therefore doesn't seem so unlikely to me that at least one homosexual or bisexual would be among the crew of the Nostromo or Prometheus. Heck, the Colonial Marines are probably crawling with homos. LOL.
Kronik
MemberOvomorphMar-26-2012 5:31 AMSpeaking as another Gay Sci-Fi fan (Wow! There certainly seems to be a few of us here)... I worry about how a Gay character(s) may be portrayed. Hollywood has a very nasty habit of stereotyping us in the cinema. If there ARE Gay crew members, I hope it's one of the Mercs... tough and bad-ass enough to break this stereotypical mould.
centrosphere
MemberOvomorphMar-26-2012 7:12 AMHe isn´t as popular as some decades ago, but Arthur C Clarke books, mainly the later ones, depicted homosexuality. In fact he believed that homosexuality was a universal characteristic, only present in higher or lesser degree. There is not much secret that he was an homosexual himself, but his archives will only be published after 2038 (thirty years after his death).
Generally speaking, sexual relationships can mess up some environments. That´s why "sex" is a taboo concept in the manned american space program.
I think "Alien" was pretty much assexual. Maybe because there wasn´t explicit "sexual roles"; the movie conveys a strong sense of sex egualitarianism. "Sex" was only allowed in the human-alien relationships: fast, wild and lethal.
RickK
MemberOvomorphMar-26-2012 7:14 AMI'm just an old fashioned hetero I guess and as such I do not understand or find anything interesting about the gay lifestyle - to each his own though, as long as you don't wave it in my face. The only gay people that irritate me are the ones who flaunt it for no other reason than they know it makes people uncomfortable - and that's not a behavior that's necessarily limitited to the gay community - just look at all the idiots walking around with baggy pants hanging down to their knees - you think they do that because walking around like a penguin so your pants dont' completely fall off is more comfortable? . My wife has a gay friend - he's a nice enough fella. He knows I am straight. We respect each other, he doesn't try and defend his way of life and I don't try and tell him he is wrong. All that said, I hope like hell they don't put any gay stuff in the movie, I really don't see what purpose it would serve.
Heustess
MemberOvomorphMar-26-2012 7:37 AM"I'd think that, in the US or Europe, the kind of person who'd seriously object to a gay relationship being depicted would probably not be the sort of person who'd be a fan of movies like the Alien series in the first place. It might be more of a problem in some other markets like the Middle East or Chinese-speaking countries, though."
Well LGBT movies are not the only ones : Any movies pertaining to time travel, such as Back to the Future, are now banned in China.
This one has a cultural logic to it though. The ban against time travel is based on the immense respect that Chinese culture has to its ancestors. The Chinese believe that a work of fiction that depicts the ancestors will be necessarily different from what actually happened, which is considered extremely disrespectful.
Heustess
MemberOvomorphMar-26-2012 8:45 AM"Re Christianity, I couldnt care less what they think because Im an Evolutionist. Christians, and for that matter people of most faiths have some very strange, archaic ideas that simply dont seems to go away. Its funny that we live in so called modern times and yet there are still people (sorry America) who think the Earth is only a few thousand years old.Come to think of it, prometheus is gonna piss a lot of these people off, nothing to do with sexual orientation, more to do with Creationism."
Brego since When is Evolution a Position? It's A FACT!
And don't believe that the Creationist movement is some sort of retard, obscure and medieval cult:
Look up Zizek's veiws on this or look at 5;23 to 7:90 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpgRHm7BOMQ
skyguy1054
MemberOvomorphMar-26-2012 8:46 AMI remember reading at one time or another, that in ALIEN, there were several possible relationships that Scott considered implying. Whether they were ever scripted, merely discussed or improvised as additional takes or ,
Dallas : Ripley (depicted in the shuttle, as Kane's body bumps into the window)
Dallas : Lambert (implied only, Cartwright mentions this during ALIEN commentary)
Lambert : Ripley (too far from mainstream in 1979 for a main character?)
Nowadays, implying (even if not depicting) a gay relationship might not need to make THAT big an impression on ANYONE if handled maturely.
BTW, there were several other, shall we say, less than traditional sexual relationships depicted in Trek and its spinoffs, particulary DS9. As with so many other "forbidden" topics( war, politics, religion) placing them in a sci-fi context allows them to be explored more indirectly.
Add A Reply
