SJ Ship is the Derelict

@TKFanboy... There is no need for repeated insults. I opened this thread to state my theory and will therefore, unless proven wrong or cast into doubt, defend said theory. My theory is based up observation and reasoning Your theory, however, is based up conjecture. And because I did not agree with, and debunked your theory of the derelict being destroyed you have resorted to insults and foul language. You have turned this thread into a farce by attempting to confuse and then enflame the discussion into a personal argument. if you don't agree, then you don't agree, that is fine. But there is no need to attack ones position because it differs from yours. Any statements I have made come from what we have all heard from Ridley and Damon in the past few months!

Seems the popular assumption is that the alien ship is headed for Earth when it takes off. Is that also the assumption of Shaw and the Prometheus crew? Could this assumption be wrong? Yes, it most definitely could. Drama is often played in tragedy. "We were so wrong." Easy to believe this is in reference to the dialogue narrative of the trailers, but placed in proper context, they could be [i]wrong[/i] about a lot of things.

The assumption of the crew could be wrong, but I doubt it, it cleverly dovetails into Ripleys mission to stop the Aliens getting to earth at any cost (even her life) in the Alien franchise. But I don't see what that's got to do with this thread?!?

Well i'm sitting on the fence here for this one because the planet itself doesn't look like lv-426 to me unless as i suspect there is a huge atmospheric disaster at some point that changes the landscape of the planet to resemble that of the planet in alien . Then again you may well be correct snorky we will have to wait and see i guess.

Thats the thing, I suspect that is exactly what does happen, and we may see the start of it in Prometheus - Hence in the trailer when someone says everything is changing.

Tkfanboy makes a good point to, ridley and lindelof have both said we dont want to infringe on the alien film because its a classic and to mess with it is tantamount to playing with fire or words to that effect. Lindelof said of the process of making “Prometheus.” “If there were a sequel to this movie that we’re working on — that eventually became ‘Prometheus’ — it would not be ‘Alien.’ Normally, that’s the definition of a prequel is it precedes the other movies.” He added, “This movie, hopefully, will contextualize the original ‘Alien’ so that when you watch it again, maybe you know a little bit more, but you don’t fuck around with that movie. I guess you can make of that what ever you want but i'm not sure either way.

and having the derelict crash ready to be found 37 years later wouldn't mess around with Alien, in any shape or form, would it now!

The real question, is why you'd make such clear, structural changes to the map-room, thereby forcing yourself to explain how they subsequently came about. For example, the pods could simply have been located in another room, presumably not explored by the Nostromo crew. *shrug* I could buy the notion of SJ tech run amok, if it was just a question of surface textures on the walls and ceilings, but not the shape of the room, the pods or the chair. There's no compelling reason to explain [i]exactly[/i] why, when, and how the 'Alien' derelict came to rest where it did. In fact, doing so would take a lot of the mystery out of the original film.....perhaps too much.

on the other hand ridley has always said in the commentary to alien that he wanted to explore the origin of the pilot/sj and how they came to be on that planet and the cargo they were carrying what were their purpose etc . So i think your probably right snorky but the production behind this is on the one hand sending out mixed messages and avoiding a total explanation to the root of this films Premise.

@artyoh ... but the fact that ship is there in alien and wasn't explained to me is the perfect reason to make another film to explain that event. It makes more sense then some of the sequels we have seen story wise. To me it was an obvious choice long ago and yet the fox studio were always struggling for a decent script and all the time you had that part of the film staring you in the face waiting to be told.

@alteredstate If we learn something about who the SJs are; their technology and how it works, that's enough for me. I've always assumed the chestburster which killed the "Alien" SJ was a result of their technology, not a stow-away or completely random accident. The fanbase as a whole, may feel differently, however. It will irk me, if the Prometheus crew is somehow responsible for the "creation" of the xeno. IMO, that would be too-cute by half.

Agreed that would be a little disconcerting.

@Snorkelbottom, So you are making the claim that they changed up the special effects? Or are you saying, "now we can see both sides", hence its the original derelict...

it looks like they switched up the effects....if you look at the ground beneath the ship, its features are pretty much the same, but the ship is positioned differently.

Yes I fully understand the ground... but I'm thinking why? Why is it turned around? They turned the Derelict 180 degrees and made it more bulbous to please the fans? I just think Snorkel is being funny about the fans though... If you are going to use a picture of the original Derelict and say the new one looks just like it, because it is organic.. well just put it this way, for every comparison, I can show you a discrepancy... I say there is a reason for the 180....

For what it's worth he's my take on the 2 different crafts shown in the December trailers and the March ones. For the sake of this post I will refer to the Dec craft as the new one and the March craft as the old one. Shaw is looking up at the December craft from the north end of the photo and in my opinion she is watching it rise up from it's hanger to launch.......this is not a damaged or crashed craft in this shot. This is the same craft that is smashed by the Prometheus then crashes and tumbles .....you can see this frame by frame, noting the fins, horns, appendages, etc. A newer model of the original in Alien. This is also the same craft in the hologram that Janek comments "THEY'RE leaving". I think he is refering to "THEY'RE leaving" as several craft as well as several occupants. Therefore I think the craft we see in the new trailers is probably the second craft, the old craft, rising to take off because it's launching from the same place (nothing the background formations), it's not damaged and makes sense in the underground hanger way like a aircraft carrier elevator. Scott has said he veiwed the original derelict as a bomber with deadly cargo and has made some reference to an aircraft carrier on the commentary to Alien when they find the SJ. I agree the old craft in the new trailers looks like the original one in Alien...... it may be that the new model rises and takes off and Prometheus crashes it, then the old model rises up and takes off and the rest we all know .......it ends up on LV 426.......and there's the loose tie-in to Alien in the 7 minutes.

Oh ya, I understand the ground and the relationship to the derelict. But why is it turned around? The good folks at Fox heard a million cries from the fans? So they made the Derelict more bulbous, organic looking, and turned the ship 180 degrees? I think Snorkel is being funny there though.. But still, that is no solid reason. For every comparison, I can come up with a discrepancy as to why it is not the Derelict of Alien. I say there is a reason it is turned 180.

Re; my last post ......last sentence should read "the last 7 minutes". Scott and company have said that some tie-in or reference to Alien will be apparent in the last minutes of the film. Anyway that my two bobs worth.

@ Zues - No offence intended by this, but your theory of these images being proof that there are two Derelicts is stretching it, at best. The two shots obvious show that as post-production has continued they have altered the shape of the derelict to better match the one seen in Alien. @ Danrald - Whether this was because of comments by fans on this, and other forums, I don't know. Normally I would say that was unlikely, but we know that Damon is as much a fanboy of the Alien films as we are, so it is possible. The way I see it is that these changes, to make the Derelict closer in appearnce to the original from Alien, suggest that This is the same Derelict from Alien, and that this is LV-426. I say this because I don't really see Ridley returning to Sci-Fi after so long just to re-do something he has already done and explain it away as another unfortunate incident that mirrors the original incident...

@snorkelbottom, No offence taken....never......just a theory, no proof.....it's just good to be able to discuss this.........your initial observation on the different craft find was really perceptive.... no-one ever picked that, except you.....you have a very good eye sir! I still believe what you are seeing are TWO different craft.........in the same movie! I still believe this changing of the craft in the trailers is in fact NOT a change but are in fact images of 2 different ships preparing for take-off.............in fact, .......regarding my previous post as the vertical elevator from the underground hanger ......the very background for this website shows the opening from the below view of the hanger ...........would they (SJ...whoever they are?) have only one craft? And that background shot of the opening of the underground floor...........where can I download that please.......... also I reckon this post @ snorkbottem is in the top 5 in terms of interest per posts and and as such this post should reboot or as a new post so that others don't miss on your eye-opening insights/images.........is it OK to start a new thread with the same photo/theme?...... this current thread is so down the track it's history!............but's it's so relevant!