SJ Ship is the Derelict

@TKFanboy... There is no need for repeated insults. I opened this thread to state my theory and will therefore, unless proven wrong or cast into doubt, defend said theory. My theory is based up observation and reasoning Your theory, however, is based up conjecture. And because I did not agree with, and debunked your theory of the derelict being destroyed you have resorted to insults and foul language. You have turned this thread into a farce by attempting to confuse and then enflame the discussion into a personal argument. if you don't agree, then you don't agree, that is fine. But there is no need to attack ones position because it differs from yours. Any statements I have made come from what we have all heard from Ridley and Damon in the past few months!

Seems the popular assumption is that the alien ship is headed for Earth when it takes off. Is that also the assumption of Shaw and the Prometheus crew? Could this assumption be wrong? Yes, it most definitely could. Drama is often played in tragedy. "We were so wrong." Easy to believe this is in reference to the dialogue narrative of the trailers, but placed in proper context, they could be [i]wrong[/i] about a lot of things.

The assumption of the crew could be wrong, but I doubt it, it cleverly dovetails into Ripleys mission to stop the Aliens getting to earth at any cost (even her life) in the Alien franchise. But I don't see what that's got to do with this thread?!?

Well i'm sitting on the fence here for this one because the planet itself doesn't look like lv-426 to me unless as i suspect there is a huge atmospheric disaster at some point that changes the landscape of the planet to resemble that of the planet in alien . Then again you may well be correct snorky we will have to wait and see i guess.

Thats the thing, I suspect that is exactly what does happen, and we may see the start of it in Prometheus - Hence in the trailer when someone says everything is changing.

Tkfanboy makes a good point to, ridley and lindelof have both said we dont want to infringe on the alien film because its a classic and to mess with it is tantamount to playing with fire or words to that effect. Lindelof said of the process of making “Prometheus.” “If there were a sequel to this movie that we’re working on — that eventually became ‘Prometheus’ — it would not be ‘Alien.’ Normally, that’s the definition of a prequel is it precedes the other movies.” He added, “This movie, hopefully, will contextualize the original ‘Alien’ so that when you watch it again, maybe you know a little bit more, but you don’t fuck around with that movie. I guess you can make of that what ever you want but i'm not sure either way.

and having the derelict crash ready to be found 37 years later wouldn't mess around with Alien, in any shape or form, would it now!

The real question, is why you'd make such clear, structural changes to the map-room, thereby forcing yourself to explain how they subsequently came about. For example, the pods could simply have been located in another room, presumably not explored by the Nostromo crew. *shrug* I could buy the notion of SJ tech run amok, if it was just a question of surface textures on the walls and ceilings, but not the shape of the room, the pods or the chair. There's no compelling reason to explain [i]exactly[/i] why, when, and how the 'Alien' derelict came to rest where it did. In fact, doing so would take a lot of the mystery out of the original film.....perhaps too much.

on the other hand ridley has always said in the commentary to alien that he wanted to explore the origin of the pilot/sj and how they came to be on that planet and the cargo they were carrying what were their purpose etc . So i think your probably right snorky but the production behind this is on the one hand sending out mixed messages and avoiding a total explanation to the root of this films Premise.

@artyoh ... but the fact that ship is there in alien and wasn't explained to me is the perfect reason to make another film to explain that event. It makes more sense then some of the sequels we have seen story wise. To me it was an obvious choice long ago and yet the fox studio were always struggling for a decent script and all the time you had that part of the film staring you in the face waiting to be told.

@alteredstate If we learn something about who the SJs are; their technology and how it works, that's enough for me. I've always assumed the chestburster which killed the "Alien" SJ was a result of their technology, not a stow-away or completely random accident. The fanbase as a whole, may feel differently, however. It will irk me, if the Prometheus crew is somehow responsible for the "creation" of the xeno. IMO, that would be too-cute by half.

Agreed that would be a little disconcerting.

@Snorkelbottom, So you are making the claim that they changed up the special effects? Or are you saying, "now we can see both sides", hence its the original derelict...

it looks like they switched up the effects....if you look at the ground beneath the ship, its features are pretty much the same, but the ship is positioned differently.

For what it's worth he's my take on the 2 different crafts shown in the December trailers and the March ones. For the sake of this post I will refer to the Dec craft as the new one and the March craft as the old one. Shaw is looking up at the December craft from the north end of the photo and in my opinion she is watching it rise up from it's hanger to launch.......this is not a damaged or crashed craft in this shot. This is the same craft that is smashed by the Prometheus then crashes and tumbles .....you can see this frame by frame, noting the fins, horns, appendages, etc. A newer model of the original in Alien. This is also the same craft in the hologram that Janek comments "THEY'RE leaving". I think he is refering to "THEY'RE leaving" as several craft as well as several occupants. Therefore I think the craft we see in the new trailers is probably the second craft, the old craft, rising to take off because it's launching from the same place (nothing the background formations), it's not damaged and makes sense in the underground hanger way like a aircraft carrier elevator. Scott has said he veiwed the original derelict as a bomber with deadly cargo and has made some reference to an aircraft carrier on the commentary to Alien when they find the SJ. I agree the old craft in the new trailers looks like the original one in Alien...... it may be that the new model rises and takes off and Prometheus crashes it, then the old model rises up and takes off and the rest we all know .......it ends up on LV 426.......and there's the loose tie-in to Alien in the 7 minutes.

Oh ya, I understand the ground and the relationship to the derelict. But why is it turned around? The good folks at Fox heard a million cries from the fans? So they made the Derelict more bulbous, organic looking, and turned the ship 180 degrees? I think Snorkel is being funny there though.. But still, that is no solid reason. For every comparison, I can come up with a discrepancy as to why it is not the Derelict of Alien. I say there is a reason it is turned 180.

Re; my last post ......last sentence should read "the last 7 minutes". Scott and company have said that some tie-in or reference to Alien will be apparent in the last minutes of the film. Anyway that my two bobs worth.

@ Zues - No offence intended by this, but your theory of these images being proof that there are two Derelicts is stretching it, at best. The two shots obvious show that as post-production has continued they have altered the shape of the derelict to better match the one seen in Alien. @ Danrald - Whether this was because of comments by fans on this, and other forums, I don't know. Normally I would say that was unlikely, but we know that Damon is as much a fanboy of the Alien films as we are, so it is possible. The way I see it is that these changes, to make the Derelict closer in appearnce to the original from Alien, suggest that This is the same Derelict from Alien, and that this is LV-426. I say this because I don't really see Ridley returning to Sci-Fi after so long just to re-do something he has already done and explain it away as another unfortunate incident that mirrors the original incident...

Looks like I got in on this one late. Here's my 2 cents. It supports the following viewpoints: (ie: Mine, Snork's, Ridley's, and common sense). 0. Mine: I've always said it was the same derelict and it was LV-426. Either that, or the SJ's are terrible pilots. 1. Story beats. If you know anything about screenwriting (Snork does), there are 15 story beats (+/-) in a typical script/screenplay that happen at very specific times for very specific reasons that drive the story forward. No writer would take the chance of confusing their audience with a second crash of a second derelict/boneship (love that descriptive!) on a second planet or the same one (LV-426). It's just not gonna' happen... "that" script would never have been greenlit. 2. If the "boneship" truly is bio-mechanic (like the SJ's) and we already have evidence of that in the new trailer: "Prometheus are you seeing this? The ceiling, it's changing!" (or something like that)... then said boneship/pilots/engineers/whatever will constantly have the ability to "morph" throughout their respective life-cycles until the point of death. At which time, they are "frozen in time at their state of death". In other words, they become the original derelict and SJ (that the Nostromo crew discovers)... dead and therefore no longer able to change. Hence the whole: "The rooms look different" argument is moot. They (rooms) may actually be morphing as the Prometheus crew explores them! 3. I do believe the earlier post about the mirror images from the first and second trailers is correct. If you pay close attention to the 3 "vagina-like holes" on the boneship, you'll notice the mirror-image argument makes sense... but then there's that nagging "plumper" look to the boneship in the newer images... hmmm... see 2. above. 4. "The derelict would surely be destroyed after the Prometheus crashes into it and it comes crashing down on planet X (ie: LV-426)". No it would not. Not if it is bio-mechanical in nature. As a matter of fact, before it "dies" (of "internal" injuries?), it could theoretically repair itself. Think of smashing a crystal chandelier into a flying dragon, the chandelier would break apart and be destroyed (Prometheus)... and the dragon might be hurt... but it would land and not explode. 5. Ridley's new interview in the Empire article. Read it before you decide to tell anyone else what Ridley intended. It's all right there in black and white... at least as much as he wants to reveal.

Thanks db

OR... here is food for thought for you... How about DUAL acts of self-sacrifice?? The SJ's are nothing more than the "Blue Meanies" disgruntled DELIVERY BOYS and take an example from Janek and DELIBERATELY crash this OTHER Jockey vessel on LV426 which is NOT the Prometheus world in order to SAVE US from a final mission assigned to it by the "Blue Meanies" whos civilaztion seems to have been obliterated by something we have not seen yet. I am starting to come around to the idea of the Xeno being nothing more than a fail-safe bio-weapon but I am thinking everyone is confusing the idea that the SJ's are in fract the "bosses" when I am now really seeing them as nothing more than slaves to the "Blue Meanies".

Blue meanies lol I'm all for a good theory but unfortunately I'm struggling with yours, as I see no evidence to support it.

"evidence" hahaha snork. Well c'mon its not like there is any real evidence on this yet... We are are just sprouting thoughts. I alwyas go back to that beautiful shot of the Nostromo approaching the system from 1979 (Not bad for 70's optical effects by the way) We clearly see a very large planet with at least 3 smaller moons orbiting in close proximity. Some have obvious colours, which I suppose is trying to indicate that they may be some form of atmosphere/life on them... but 2 of them appear to lifeless whitish or dark grey moons. I always envisoned LV426 as one of the small dark moons and that Prometheus lands on one of the LARGER ones... maybe even the giant planet itself... I mean its obviously flying through a mostly bluish sky atmosphere with huge atmospheric cloud like formations on its descent in the trailers.

Further... the "Derelict" on LV426 is clearly flat on the ground surrounding by jutting, craggy rock formations. The SJ vessel in Prometheus appears to crash mostly on a flat plain. Even if one goes for a doomsday theory where the God's blew up the planet so to speak, who does that explain how the "evidence" of virtually everything else is GONE, that the whole topography of the landscape has changed and that this one particular vessel was still able to go through all that without getting destroyed??? Its not the the SJ vessel is an any way particularly tough... I mean, some "earth steel" was able to knock it down.

Frankly....this a particular issue with which I have finally reached total speculative overload..................I am reserving judgment for June 8th because I honestly can't lean either way anymore.....I see it both ways and feel like we're arguing semantics...........

And heres another thought... Shaw alone, enters the crashed SJ vessel to do battle with whatever. After an epic struggle, she overcomes her foe, but is mortally wounded. She dies thinking that she has at least saved mankind... and the audience thinks... oh..ok.. I guess thats it. The camera view slowly pulls out from the interior view, as slowly begins to pan across the landscape as we the audience follow along... now ominous tones.... we are still in the general vicinity of the silos and temple, but in the completely opposite direction. The camera stops, angles slightly to reveal the landscape seems to be "moving". We the audience now realize that ANOTHER underground ship bay is opening up and that many, ANOTHER Jockey vessels is risiing up out of the ground.... The sounds of engines roaring... slow lift off.. slow fade to black with ominous score... END SCENE. Hahahaha. And what of the "REAL DERELICT" and what happens to it??? Well thats the "sequel" to dah "pre-quel" doncha know. :)

@ craigamore - I wholeheartedly agree, come June we will know one way or another.