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Gavin
MemberTrilobiteMay-18-2012 11:53 AMIMO the term canon, when applied to a collection of fictional entertainment is thus...
[b]Any installments created in the same format as the original installment is canon, everything else is extended universe or fan fiction unless expressively and officially stated otherwise.[/b]
For example...
- Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection are canon.
- Alien comics, books, graphic novels, toys and video games are not canon.
- Batman comics such as Year One are canon.
- Batman Begins Trilogy, Batman cartoons, and the 70's TV series are not canon.
- Odd Thomas, Forever Odd, Brother Odd, Odd Hours and the forthcoming Odd Apocalypse are canon.
- The forthcoming Odd Thomas movie is not canon.
Of course there are exceptions to the rule, for example the Gears of War novels and comics are considered canon to the events in the games.
Others have the view that what they like, or don't like determines what is canon, from their perspective - for example some fans refusing to accept Alien 3 and Resurrection as canon.
And furthermore, someone stated in a thread yesterday (I am sure they will make themselves known) that they viewed a difference between "Franchise" and "Canon" - stating that all of the 4 Alien films are of the same franchise but that only the original is canon. The basis, as I understand it, for this argument was two fold
1. In Alien the universe was created, whereas Aliens, 3 and Resurrection where elaborate fan fiction by other directors that had deviated away from the source material.
2. The term "canon" does not apply to the Alien franchise because they have not been imagined or governed by guiding figure. Such as Gene Roddenberry overseeing Star Trek TNG, for example.
These arguments stem from actual definitions, definitions that are not fit for purpose in todays entertainment industry. Going back to the Batman examples, the newer Batman stories were not envisioned by Bob Kane, but are considered canon by DC, the writers/artists and the fans. Therefore how can this argument be used in relation to the Alien franchise, especially when you take into account the fact the Alien franchise has been overseen by Brandywine Productions, who also oversaw the AVP's.
Of course there are other views regading what determines something being canon, and the arguments go back and forth, usually degrading into the realm of semantics and opinions. For a while I have stated that IMO the AVP's are canon, some agree, some don't. But IMO all of the Aliens are also canon, some agree, but again some don't.
Therefore how can we determine whether something is or isn't canon, when we can't even agree on what canon is.
11 Replies
David 1
MemberOvomorphMay-18-2012 12:01 PMWhat is CANON you ask.
My Answer is: that witch the original author says it is. All others, just entertaining fac-simile.
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteMay-18-2012 12:04 PMBy that argument Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection and Prometheus wouldn't be canon.
sukkal
MemberOvomorphMay-18-2012 12:05 PM
It depends on the fans' relationship with the franchise/licensing and vice versa. In the Star Trek fan base it's very clear. If it's on Memory Alpha it's canon. If it's not, it's not.
In this Franchice, I [u]personally[/u] do not consider AvP canonical, for example.
David 1
MemberOvomorphMay-18-2012 12:07 PMThen they might be not, and only be fan-fiction as you said. And that is OK, really. The good thing of things that are one of a kind is... that they are one of a kind. If they get replicated they start to rot [Xeno, as an example]
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
sukkal
MemberOvomorphMay-18-2012 12:07 PM[quote=Snorks][i]By that argument Aliens, Alien 3, Alien Resurrection and Prometheus wouldn't be canon.[/i][/quote]
I give them "canon" status due to the fact that they put Ripley (or someone Ripley-like) in all of them.
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteMay-18-2012 12:11 PM@ sukkals original post...
By that argument non of them are canon, because of the nature by which the fans entered into the franchise - games fans consider the ideas in the games canon, same goes for the comic fans and then with the films some consider 1 canon, or 1 and 2, or 1, 2 and 3 or all 4.
In terms of franchise/licensing that would make AVP canon as per James Cameron's statement that AVP was the third best film in the franchise (after Alien and Aliens presumably).
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteMay-18-2012 12:13 PM@ Sukkals second post...
Ripley like would make AVP and AVPR canon, would it not?
SilverX1031
MemberOvomorphMay-18-2012 2:34 PMI do think that all three Predator movies and both AvP movies are canon along with all four Alien movies.
Just look at the "subtle" hints that Pred 2 and Predators puts in the movies. The only one we don't see a clear tie into the Alien series is the first Predator movie.
NoXWord
MemberOvomorphMay-18-2012 4:15 PMThis looks like the best place to clarify that CANON is not CANNON.
Ridley Scott will eventually tell us how the Queen was born.
Right now we have the Deacon; coming soon the Mercury, the May and the Taylor.
Svanya
AdminPraetorianMay-18-2012 7:02 PM"Canon" is the word used to describe something that is "official" in a story. As in what the original director, story writer or artist says as being true. Mix and matching characters is considered non-cannon.
AVP isn't considered canon because the Aliens and Predators are not in the same franchise. Much like why Batman can never be a part of The Avengers.
Alien and Predator are two separate franchises that were mashed together in the sole purpose to make money. Good examples of this are: The non-canon comic book series written by Frank Miller called "RoboCop versus The Terminator" which suggests that the creation of Skynet and the Terminators was made possible due to the technology used to create RoboCop. OR the mashup, "Superman vs. the Terminator: Death to the Future" where we find Skynet forming a cross-temporal alliance with Superman's foe the Cyborg, dispatching various Terminators into the past in an attempt to eliminate Superman, Supergirl and Superboy.
These are the guiding figures of Alien lore: Ridley Scott, Giger and Cameron.
The Predator lore was created by by brothers Jim and John Thomas.
nick.gouthro
MemberOvomorphJun-06-2012 8:34 PMI personally don't think canon matters all that much in the grand scheme of things. I mostly agree with Snorkelbottom's definition of canon, in which case all the Alien movies are canon until officially stated otherwise (I would love to see Ridley Scott or James Cameron decide to make a new movie in the Alien series that picked up where Aliens left off and disregarded the last two). I do think that what is canon in a series is very subjective.
I choose not to recognize 3 or Resurrection as canon, namely because I didn't like them. I will continue to do that until it is officially stated that they are not canon (not likely) or a movie in the Alien or Prometheus franchise that I like forces me to accept it. I don't believe that I'm wrong in doing this because the last two movies are only essential to each other and not to any other movie in the series. I also don't think that anyone who chooses to accept 3 or Resurrection is wrong.
Bottom line is, regardless of what the definition of canon is, or what is generally accepted as canon, everyone is going to have there own opinion and theory on what should or shouldn't be canon.
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