Are xenomorphs the oldest species in the universe?

Nice Find..... Indeed i think some hate the Insect idea, and praise Ridleys work and kind of blame Cameron for creating the Bug.... But that shows that indeed Ridley saw the Organism as Insect like... He also said in a interview the Queen made logically sense, and if he consider the Xeno in Alien to be some how Insect like, be that appearance and behavior then a Queen is a logical progression. What also is interesting is that Fox Execs brought Lindeloff to adapt Spaights Draft that was too Xeno ... Which could mean as from the start Spaights and Ridley worked on the early drafts, means Ridley liked the ideas and concepts of Spaights which with what you said, Ridley was not at all against the Xeno from Aliens etc

Didnt have time to read all of this thread but yes I have been thinking the xenos come from the oldest life form/s the engineers have found - possibly they think they are the first (and so the might find god through them) - but there could be twists like they are only the oldest in the milky way or something. I think the xenos partly resemble the thing that the black goo comes from the black goo is its blood or way of reproducing type thing - something we have never seen before but the things produced from the goo requires extreme mental discipline to make good life like at the beginning of prometheus when something a dumb as a human uses it we get the bad stuff. The xenos just look like the thing they comes from they lack its intelligence as it is way way more intelligent than even the elders etc.. :P....could type more but got to go... :(

@BigDave; NP! I will try and find the other videos where Ridley and Giger reffer to the Xeno is an insect. In answer to your questions Gimme and Odoudu; I find this info in Documentaries and all sorts of interviews and video clips. I will add to this and save all videos etc. that I find on the subject and possibly clip them all together to make a proper video to link in future. Here are all the links, and quotes I have for now plus one video of Ridley saying the Xeno is an Insect. Quotes: [i] 'Whether he [the Alien] could see, or simply sense like an insect, I didn't need ever have to answer that question'-Ridley Scott[/i] [i] 'He [Skerret] is really the host for the insect, which is the Alien.'- Ridley Scott[/i] [i]HR Giger: ‘We decided to make a very elegant creature, quick and like an insect.’ - Giger[/i] [i]"I wanted him [the Alien] to be insect-like. Like an ant. Because if you examine an ant under a microscope they’re kind of elegant, and I wanted him to be very elegant and dangerous.”- Ridley Scott, The Alien Saga, 2002 (archival interview from 1991)[/i] Videos: [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0hQiV4hPGQ]Ridley Scott talks Cocoon Sequence from 1992 - Calls the Xenomorph an insect-Alien (1979)[/url] Blogs: [url=http://alienseries.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/the-insect-influence/]Alien-The Insect Influence[/url] [url=http://www.jamescamerononline.com/BiomechanicalInsect.htm]BiomechanicalInsect[/url]

@Gimmefacehug: I couldn't agree more. Nothing belittles the glory of the beast like portraying it as a bloody bug! Im okay that it may have some visible characteristics and behavioural traits in common- but Cameron's "bug hunt" kinda ruins the horror of the Xeno. (Also i always thought that naming it sort of took something away) Ridley may have asked for insect-like traits, etc. but it was definitely Cameron who had 1,000 of them crawling around, squeeling like GD elephants and demonstrating very little of the tact and cunning of the creature in Alien. They simply were not as scary. And the Queen (boo). That being said- Aliens is all right, i just prefer the original. By 10,000 light years. And Ressur***ion never happened, ok!?

@Fleshvessel; I agree completely with you!!! ^^ It's obviously not an insect!!! Are insects humanoid in appearance? NO Do insects have the intelligence to work out that they need to cut the power? I don't think so. Are insects bio-mechanical? Are insects bipedal? NO. Insects have to have 6 legs for it to be classed as such. The Giger Alien as 2. In the scene where the alien is moving toward Lambert, is it moving like an insect? I doubt it. It's walking towards her slowly and upright like a human, and then it rapes her. Do insects do that?

Guys its still a very cool creature who cares if its insect like. Let me let you in on a secret that the most terrifying and longest living species are the simple ones with complex life cycles. Remember no matter what kind of story you give the xeno ie eggs, nest, cocoon, etc... They are insect traits no mammal, reptile, amphibian, mollusk does that. Even if you were to ignore what Ridley and Cameron did your still going to wind up with an insect-like creature. The simplest life-forms are the superior ones.

There's no way of avoiding it, because 'bugs' like ants are the most efficient and can lift the equivalent of man picking up a volkswagon with his teeth. Ants/Xenos are immensely strong.

@Anunnaki; "The simplest life-forms are the superior ones." Tell that to the fly I flattened earlier :-) I agree, it as some similarities in appearance to an insect and also has certain traits. But as a whole, it is not an insect. Read my previous post and tell me if an insect has those traits? ^^

@Svanya; I think it is obvious that Ridley and Giger were compairing the Giger Alien to insects because of the way it looks. I don't believe for 1 second that they would be stupid enough to say it ACTUALY IS an insect, because it's not! That's a fact! Insects have to, HAVE TO have 6 legs in order for it to be catagorized as such!

The ONLY way in which the Giger Alien could have been an insect, is if the face hugger orally raped an insect. But that's not likely to happen.

I know its not a bug at all but it does have those creepy traits even though its a parasitic organism.

Laying eggs and coccooning prey, etc. is actually very arachnid behavior, and when i look at a facehugger (which has 8 legs) that's what i'm reminded of. Annu- good point about the strength, etc. -insects are tenacious little mf's. Still hate the bug hunt.

@Fleshvessel; I still agree. However, arachnids and insects have very HAIR like legs. The facehugger's legs are like human fingers. Arachnids don't have a tail either. To me, the facehugger reminds me of a human and hammerpede hybrid. Maybe that's what the hammerpede was in the process of doing to Milburn before it was disturbed? Maybe it was in the process of turning him into an egg?

[i]"I don't believe for 1 second that they would be stupid enough to say it ACTUALY IS an insect, because it's not! That's a fact!"-Necronom 4[/i] @Necronom 4: Did you watch the video? Ridley calls it "The insect" and he calls the Xeno's nest a "hive". Here is the video again: [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0hQiV4hPGQ]Ridley Scott talks Cocoon Sequence from 1992 - Alien (1979)-Call the Xeno and "Insect" and talks about it's "hive".[/url] I seriously don't understand why the freakout over this, or why the Xenomorph is getting compared to insects from earth (even if it were an insect, it's not going to be anything like the ones from earth). The whole point is it is an alien lifeform. I mean, who the heck knows what it actually is really, that is the whole mystery, Giger created it from the depths of his psyche and it's f*cking beautiful no matter what. I just think it's neat to hear Ridley and Giger refer to it as an insect because James Cameron gets so much $hit for that.

I guess the egg morphing idea is like an insect thing then and there was speculation at one stage that the xeno want dying but actually going into its final stage of morphing into adulthood. Somewhere in the back of my mind I have always had the idea that the xeno is genetically engineered cteature - taking various traits from other species to create an organism that can survive and adapt in virually any condition. Svanya In that sense cameron was actually working with what ridley envisioned all along . Great point. There has to be something greater behind the xeno. It is no accident that it is the way it is . It just seems to me to be too much thought and design in its physical design - even if it has been around for millions of years. That is why I like spaihts alien engineer scriot. The original facehuggers were squid like creatures that grew from inside somekind bacterial sack and then very spider like dropped out from it by somekind of line - maybe silk ?? And then facehugged the humanoid passerby . The engineers simply grew a hard biological encassing - the egg like a flower and the hugger developed inside with all the added traits - so a definite insect arachnid influence - but not only that . But as you very correctly said - therein lies the mystery - if we knew the exact nature of the xeno then this discussion woild never have happened !! Peace !!!

Hey Necronom, If you love morphin, and you would like some follow-up on hammerpedes, green crystals, and the like; you should check out some guy's contest entry (short story). It's called Fleshvessel's P2 contest entry. Rather abrupt ending- guess he ran out of time or something. Seems like it was written just for you, My Good Man.

From what i hear, he is still anxiously awaiting his reward... :)

@Fleshvessel; I've read it bro, I really liked it! I love anything creative! I believe you won the stool right? I wouldn't mind one of those trays, i'm always eating my food on tray's. I sit there like an old man with it on my lap, dippin my bread into my chicken soup, moanin about the state of the country. haha

Well with the whole Franchise it leaves anything open, as far as Hammerpede, yes it came from a Worm and yes Worm Traits would make a explanation to the Xeno traits. Yes the Deacon looks kind of Human, and maybe a connection between the two makes sense.... however the Xeno looks more Bio Mech like the Space Jockey Suits. Also Ridley has hinted the Xeno does not maybe come from LV223 and indeed has been around for a long long time before Prometheus, Ridley also hints the Deacon as a Evolution while Lindeloff kind of hints as it being Progenitor infect i am sure he referenced that we see the Progenitor to Alien in Prometheus. The thing is Lindeloff is no part of the franchise now, like Ridley was not with Alien, thus Alien evolved to the Queen idea from Cameron which means if we do get more clues to Alien and the Xeno then it would come from Ridley/Fox and who ever they get to help do the script and maybe some ideas from Spaights still. As far as the Bug yes Ridley and Giger hinted at such... and then Cameron too... But that dont mean the Xeno is a insect, because its not, it is a very Alien creature but i guess they reference it as a Bug to basically give us a indication that it has characteristics to a Insect, maybe in Behavior and also appearance i.e Exoskeleton. To me the Xeno was more like a Scorpion than any other bug as far as its Exo-Skeleton goes... Also if we look at the drafts and that deleted scene "Our first Alien" what we see is a Centipede type Organism, not looking like Worms or like a Snake that the Hamerpede does. To me the Xeno is more like a crustacean than insect or worm etc. A Black Lobster has a look similar to a Scorpion as far as its Exo-Skeleton goes... Indeed Gigers original Face Huger looks like a cross between a Crustacean and Cephalopods or to be more frank a Shrimp and a Squid Hybrid. If you look at the Pseudoscorpion it is just as much like a Crab as it is a insect, this organism has some traits of interest. 1) They can produce a Cocoon they use for Malting and Mating. 2) They devour food by producing a corrosive substance like a Acid. 3) Some do not have any eyes at all.

"but Cameron's "bug hunt" kinda ruins the horror of the Xeno. (Also i always thought that naming it sort of took something away)" Well i have always said that the Xeno in Alien had a more ideal surroundings for it to be able to stealthy attack its prey, and the crew was not Military Trained and Lacked any real weapons and also the Ships design with its many dark nooks and crannies was ideal for the Xeno. In a more open space and against trained and armed crew would the Xeno had been as terrifying? Also we need look at natural instinct... If you was in the Military or Police and you had to engage a enemy and your numbers was equal or greater than that enemy, and the battle field was more open, then you would react more different. Some soldiers would take more risks to reach their objective. Now if you was on your own, where you was out numbered and you had advantage of the area was dark and had many hiding places, you would adopt a more cautious approach of using Stealth and take out your foes one by one. The Xeno in Alien was portrayed as a Organism that had to protect and procreate its kind, thus protect the Eggs and Queen and so they would show signs of taking risks to protect the greater good of the Hive. They was not dumb bugs, they showed many elements of intelligence and stealth, and they also captured Hosts to be cocooned for the Eggs Face Hugers to get to.... The Alien DC cut showed the Xeno in that movie to have its main objective as to procreate its kind, where as the theatrical release showed the Xeno to be just a Stealthy killing Machine.

@BigDave; That doesn't explain the big discrepancy between Cameron's aliens exploding like water melons from a shotgun round, and the Fifield monster (who is in the process of transforming into a Giger Alien,) taking several rounds, gets run over by an heavy vehical, gets a blast from a flame thrower and still keeps going!?!?

Maybe Weapons Improved lol... We never got to see how the Alien Xeno could be wounded or not by Weapons so its unclear and we cant say it would died as easy as the Aliens Xeno or be a tough SOB like Fifield. I think Ridley made Fifield too tough, mind you a lot of the shots missed him... And the Last Engineer took a direct shot off a Shotgun Type Weapon and only suffered a small wound, yet the Deacon ripped through him with Ease...

@BigDave; "I think Ridley made Fifield too tough, mind you a lot of the shots missed him..." What about the shots that did make contact? Also, I didn't see the engineer even remotely wounded by the gun shot. Did I miss something? Imagine this; We see an Alien and Aliens mash-up. First scene: ASH telling Ripley that it is one tough SOB because it replaces it's cells with polarized silicon. Then it cuts to the scene where Ripley blows it out of the airlock and then she hits it with a nuclear engine blast. It remains in one peace. Cut to; THIS IS CAMERONS VERSION! The ASH, tough SOB scene, then it cuts to a scene in ALIENS where they are being shot and exploding like water bombs. Those aliens don't seem very tough to me! :)

I think that his suit protected him from that wound and that the purple fluid was from his suit so it indeed protected him any real harm. Its an inconsistency Necro I know it stinks that they did that but hey its a movie no harm no foul.

@Necronom, That is my biggest gripe with ALIENS. In the first movie only one of those 'things' almost wiped out the entire crew. Then Cameron made them much, much weaker and portrayed them as 'bugs'. I love ALIENS even though It has a very different tone and feel to it, but it's in most ways still a badass movie, with the coolest marines ever! When I was younger I really wanted to see the queen for the first time, but now I wish they took a different direction. They should have at least asked Ridley if he wanted to do the sequel, but they did it behind his back , they thougth that the 'Cameron' name would probably sell better.

@Necronom 4 [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-s_qDtUBC4yQ/UKRXVGZQabI/AAAAAAAABJU/A7_iEK8HWo8/s1600/prometheus_movie_engineer_deletedscenes.jpg[/img] There are other shots but this first i found, you can see what appears to be a wound where Black Blood has come from, so i would say the Engineer took a wound. But his Suit maybe absorbed a lot of it, or even could repair some of it. @Gimmeafacehug Well we have to remember the Crew was facing a unknown threat, they was unarmed, untrained and on a Ship thats structure suited the Xenomorph's ability to climb walls, blend in with the dark etc. Also we do not see any of that crew give the Xeno any kind of wound, so its hard to suggest how much damage it could take. Would a clear few blasts of a Pulse Riffle just bounce of its skin? And with Alien, those Marines are trained, highly armed and you would have to ask, if 6 of these Marines was on board say the more open Sulaco, hence the Alien would have less hiding places, would it had survived as easy? I also said before a Human would react more cautious if you was behind enemy lines, outnumbered but you was very quick and agile and darkly dressed that you could use stealth, you would use that approach. If you was in a more open place, with many more on your side and even your numbers was greater than your foe, then you would be less stealthy and more risky in attack especially if you objective was of that importance it was more vital than your own survival. But yes i did think the Xenos got wounded a bit to easy, but then nothing like they did in AVP series.... lol Anyway i like you did really Enjoy Aliens, it was a Action Movie more than a Horror, where as Alien was more of a Suspense Thriller of a Horror. Prometheus was a Mystery Movie and Sci Fi more than a Horror or Action also..

Good points there Big Dave. I agree with everything you said above. But in the first one the Alien seemed really intelligent and knew when to sit perfectly still so they couldn't track it with the home-made motion detector, but in Aliens they don't seem to care about self-preservation because of this 'hive-minded' social structure. They're the drones who are happy to sacrifice themselves for the 'colony' and I don't really like that idea. The first Alien picked them off one by one, and it never came out of the dark, they always had to go search it( in those damn airshafts.) In the second movie they took more risks because there were more of them. But that's no excuse to just let them stupidly cramp together into the corridor with the automated Guns till the counter reached zero. I mean: It's this 'God save the queen'-idea that I don't like, but it's still an almost perfect movie that I'm happy to watch on a regular basis.

Yes i agree.... But it could be explained as under different circumstances, its hard to say what the Alien Xeno would had been like had it never had those places to hide... The Aliens Xenos was kind of doing for the greater good to procreate its species as, keeping the Queen and Eggs save and providing Host by capturing Victims was more important and their mission of sorts... The Aliens Xenos was not also as mindless as some would think, they showed cunning, they also assaulted from hiding on more than one occasion. They also decided to climb into the spaces above the ceilings to get to the Marines etc, and managed to fool for a time the Marines as they could not understand why their scanners detected the Aliens had come closer than the Door was.... End day this was maybe more due to dumb Marines too lol... The Xenos also cut off the lights etc..... Now take away the DC scene and all the Alien Xeno did was hunt its prey down, for what purpose...? The deleted scene added a whole new perspective that showed more intelligence from the Xeno, in that its agenda was to procreate its species. Then again Prometheus has even more dumb characters than Alien and also like Alien, the none theatrical Scenes of the Movie make for a more interesting story... Much more interesting. Alien TR showed the Xeno as a Stealthy killer nothing more... Prometheus TR showed the Engineers and nasty and steroid rage killing machines going postal.... Alien DC and the deleted Prometheus scenes really added more depth and made more sense... Oh one thing Alien holds its head above the others, was its use of Characters, they was never just canon fodder and plot drives like Aliens and Prometheus. Also Alien 3 and well the other movies...

Ok one more post and then I'm going to bed sorry. There was never a moment in Alien where I thought: gee that doesn't make ANY sense at all , or : man that's really stupid! Or it was forgivable: like Kane almost sticking his head in the egg...ok, he was curous, didn't think he was in danger. In Prometheus at multiple times I took my 3d-glasses off, sighing and cursing at the screen, and I thought: Who the hell would do that in real life? Like really? * the helmets went flying almost immediately *cuddling space cobras *Nobody who cares about Shaw crashing all bloodied into a room *The fact they decide not to bring weapons *they have an android that's totally ou of control, opening doors whithout knowing what's behind it, infecting people with goo... * drunk dudes who are jealous at androids because they're smarter... At least Holloway can procreate so in your face David! *Janek who doesn't give a rat's ass about Milburn and Fifield's security when they're staying at the temple. He even looks at the monitors on the ship like: Did they hear me? Why doesn't he reply to them anymore? you know: glitch, ping, life-form..WTF I'm not going to list it all. Many of the character's decisions were plain 'stoopid' and that ruins the experience more than anything imo. If I can't believe in the characters, all the rest is expendable, no matter how pretty it looks.

Gimme facehug / Very well thought out. the thing that bothers on prometheus is "ignorance" of personagems