MAKE ALIEN GREAT AGAIN!

"I always thought it was implied that LV-426, the hive and Derelict were all destroyed"

Yeah i agree with that but that does-not mean they could EXPLORE the Derelict again.... However i think its SAFE to assume the company could NOT locate any Specimens anywhere at some point prior to 2370's hence the Cloning of Ripley.  But that does-not mean they could NOT go back to the Derelict but surely what ever would Happen would again lead to a Eventual Loss/Destruction of the Organism.

I think a LOT is restricted due to the Unfinished Prequels and so if you EXPLORED another Movie you have to be Careful what you do, UNLESS those in Charge have a IDEA for the Eventual Answers to the Eggs on LV-426

I know some would like to see a Conclusion but then some would NOT, unless we Totally Tone down the Role that David has and Conclude that he COULD-NOT have Created the Xenomorph.

Its a Case that the ROLE and Mystique of the Xenomorph has become Second Fiddle to the THEMES that were Introduced in Prometheus.  The Arc of David the Creator does FIT in Perfectly with these Themes.

Only that so WOULD having David had Created something Different...   the BOTTOM LINE is the Studio was STUPID to Cave in and think its GOOD to introduce the Xenomorph into the Plot they was going for!

I think that ONLY doing Damage Control is the BEST way to clear up the Prequel Mess.... by that you have the Engineers or Related Species take what David has STARTED and Evolve it to what we got in ALIEN.

This for the MOST PART would maybe require a Shelving of WHAT KIND OF  WORLD that David would Create... much like the Plot of WHAT WILL our Dr Shaw discover in search of her Answers.

I think maybe a Conclusion or the First Part would be better covered in a NOVEL... Eventually.   Because i think DISNEY would mainly want to get from Alien Covenant ===> Alien in as Quick a way as Possible...

This would mean a LOT of what maybe RS had planned would have to be WIPED UNDER THE CARPET. Or we have a more SIMPLE PLOT where David would go to merely be interested in TURNING the Colonist into Eggs.

@Leto

Certainly Prometheus was kind of like  ATMOM the Prometheus Plot did OPEN UP a whole Cosmos of Possibilities.

I think the AIM was to show that the Xenomorph was only a SMALL part of the Engineers History.  To actually go into become a Spin Off Franchise that is NOT a ALIEN one. 

I have said it before i think THEY should have done a Different Sequel to ALIEN that could CLOSE the Door to ALIEN.   Then Davids Great Fingering, Flute Playing Adventure could have been more EPIC and NOT have any Impact on WHO had Created the Xenomorph.

so while i AGREE with the ideas you put down, because Potentially then YES there are MANY worlds the Engineers have Visited, that they are on, and that they have Creations on and their are more Horrors than merely Xenomorphs.

Would such a Venture to some Constitute a ALIEN Movie it it does not be about the Xenomorph?  And if you introduce a Xenomorph in such a Movie then i think some may Question to WHERE did these come from...

The Best Answer would be to GIVE not a single indication to WHEN the Xenomorph got there.... Not UNLESS the Prequels are Concluded with a Definite Origin Answered.

Thats NOT to discredit any Ideas you placed down... because i AGREE that with the Engineers Plot we have GALAXIES of Worlds they have Interacted with and WHO knows How Many Creations and Horrors they have Unleashed.

Some LAUGHED when RS said he Felt that the ALIEN Franchise could be like Star Trek or Star Wars!  Who knows Exactly what he meant?

What those Franchises where was GREAT Interstellar Adventures thanks to the MANY Races and Conflicts because of the MANY Races and Worlds...  

The Engineers Plot Certainly OPENS that up for the Franchise ;)

Double Post!

So i will Replace by adding that indeed LETO ;)

Space Exploration and WHAT kinds of Worlds you could Discover are something that you could ADD to the Franchise.

I am thinking we need to be getting some Fans to look PAST that ALIEN means a Franchise about Eggs, Queens and Ripley.

Remember that the Marines wondered if LV-426 would be another BUG HUNT!  Maybe this implies they have Encountered other Hostile Life in the Cosmos before?  Just NOT quite like the Xenomorph.

Remember the Arcturian Poontang this could imply that Mankind has Encountered other somewhat Humanoid Species before.

ALIENS was maybe still in the Infancy of Space Travel... as far as to the LEVEL the Engineers had.  So indeed 50, 75, 100, 150 Years after ALIENS then who knows to HOW DEEP in our Galaxy Mankind has Ventured and WHAT WORLDS they would Discover!

The above shows the Confines of the Franchise as seen Theatrically  and the Engineers would surely had Access to ANYWHERE in our Galaxy....

Humans, the Earth are Bound to NOT be the only Places they conducted their Purpose.  LV-223 is maybe NOT the only Place they Stored Horrors.

Its a case of IF those at Disney would Consider that a ALIEN Movie has to be about the Xenomorph and would MANY Fans be willing to go on a Journey to other THINGS?

Sign me UP ;) as this is what got me SO interested in Prometheus and its Plot and Disappointed with Alien Covenant.

LOL! I see what you did there BD. :D

I am almost at the point where I say throw the prequels into the trash and forget that they were ever made. Two movies and they haven't been able to make enough characters worth a damn and also they have made it into a dumb robot-tale. I am very hesitant that they'll make it all good with a third movie even though it's not impossible. Now if they should make a third prequel they should change it so David did not create the Xeno then the worst damage has been undone even though we could still get mediocre characters. Having the David-Xeno connection is the worst thing with Covenant so if they'll undo that I would feel better about the prequels even though I wouldn't like them very much. A third movie should have far less David if they'll go on with the prequels otherwise no thanks.

"I dont think we have had a GOOD Movie since 1986. . ."  

Someone *cough cough* forgot about Alien 3 (I'm mainly talking about the Assembly cut). ;) Those after 3 have been decent at best

"Can the ALIEN Franchise be made GREAT AGAIN?"

Not as long as Scott is involved in the writing or rather as long as they can't get someone that can write and that knows the importance of good characters. Perhaps it's about the editing too? I listened to Perfect Organism Podcast and there they discussed AC, they claimed that there were scenes in a fan edition that made the characters better but that were left out in the theatrical release. Since I don't know much about it since I haven't watched it I say if they got to cut movies then leave the character parts in and cut other things.

Eventually it's about what you find important, no plot points or beautiful surroundings can replace the importance of characters. They could have cut a lot of the android things and replaced it with human character moments, maybe I would have appreciated the movie more then even though it wouldn't be perfect.

Make sure what people are currently afraid of, maybe creatures or diseases tied to global warming maybe? Greedy corporations is another theme, start with WY and go from there. Look what people are really afraid of, maybe that has changed since Alien first came around.

"I think the Franchise Theatrically has LOST its GREATNESS."

Yeah maybe, thanks Scott and Fox for messing it up. ;) I'm not really a fan of having him involved in another Alien one. At least we have the first three movies.

Having David as a middle man of the creation of the monster is better than to have him being the creator of the final creature. My choice would be that 1. the Engineers found something and experimented on it, 2. David then makes his version and then 3. the Engineers takes his thing and make what we see in 1979. Even though this isn't perfect it's better than what Scott and Fox plans or planned.

". . . i cant see a LOT of Fans wishing to go on another Davids Journey/Story."

I'm just rolling my eyes on that story, boorrinng. Hopefully people would boycott such a movie because it deserves that, the bar has been set so low if they think that's what makes a good one who ever is responsible for making it. Maybe you could kill him off early in the movie to compensate for Covenant. Blow him up, decapitate him using a chainsaw, set him on fire. Holy crap I feel creative. ;)

JUDGING by the Varied Replies here it shows the RANGE of what People Like/Dislike and would LIKE to see or NOT see.

The Prequels Certainly have been Divisive and YET they opened up a LOT to expand on BEYOND just Eggs and WHO laid them.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I do think that lot of EMPHASIS was on David, it seems the Prequels have Moved to be about HIM, where everything ELSE seemed to be Secondary.

I think the Arc does FIT with the THEMES of what Prometheus was trying to SHOW.  However it comes at the COST of Character Development.

For the MOST PART then the FIRST 3 Movies had Good Characters and Execution, but we SADLY have not seen that SINCE.... well NOT enough.

ALIEN 3 was Flawed, i dont think its Great, i Certainly think its above Average.   I think for some it was a Wasted Opportunity to NOT go and Carry On with Hicks and Newt.  But you can see WHY this had to happen.

I think in Context to FINDING the Greatness again... then its HARD because a LOT of that Greatness came from something NEW and UNKNOWN.

The Problem you have when doing a Franchise that REVOLVES around a SINGLE Monster is that IF this Monster has no Communication or Emotion then it is the STORY and Exposure to the THREAT that has to give the Monster its LEGS... this requires Good Characters.

The Xenomorph to me comes across like a Space Jason Voorhees (ALIEN and ALIEN 3) and with ALIENS then some Intelligent Space Termite.  I think you have MORE of a Millage out of the Xenomorph than JASON though, but my point being the MORE you see the MONSTER and the MORE the MONSTER just Repeats what it does... then it does-not have the same EFFECT.

This is WHERE you then have to EXPAND on a Story that gives more BACKGROUND to the Monster, while also with this Good Characters will PROP up the Monster... Poor Story Evolution and Characters and it FALLS on its Face.

With the ALIEN Franchise then it seems the BACKGROUND to try and RAISE the Xenomorph comes down to Exploring the WHO Created it and WHY and WHAT the Company would intend to DO with the Xenomorph.

The PROBLEM with Prometheus was that it Decided to TONE down such things and NOT to Directly involve the Xenomorph or give SOLID Clues....  But there was enough their to BUILD UPON and Explore in Future.

It was having to ACCEPT we are NOT getting a Literal Prequel that would Connect, but OPEN UP more Horrors that we can draw some Familiarity with.

The BIGGEST PROBLEM was with the Sequel then at some point we got a U-TURN to actually give us a Literal Prequel while TRYING to Carry Over some of the THEMES from Prometheus which CONCLUDED with the Decision to make DAVID as the Creator... 

This comes at the COST of throwing away other Plots that could have been Developed to SOLELY place this as a Davids Journey.... which i think came at the COST of Undeveloped Characters to UPLIFT the Story.

The Creator of the Xenomorph Plot surely should have been something that THEY would have known would have UPSET the Fanbase... but it seems that to RS that for him the Xenomorph was the PAST... and so WHILE they Changed the PLOT to BRING the Xenomorph Back... it seems RS felt that having David be the Creator would UPLIFT his Characters Role in the Franchise.

At the ULTIMATE COST of making the Xenomorph become a Lessor Footnote and taking AWAY the Unknown and Enigma of the MONSTER.

So THIS does make the Xenomorph become something LESS of a Enigma and this could EFFECT the Xenomorph in Future.

UNLESS they explore ways to UPLIFT the Beast beyond HOW is was Portrayed in the Franchise.

I think that Damage Control that David had merely STARTED a Project that the Engineers (or other Species) then EVOLVES to that Cargo on LV-426 is a WAY to BOTH restore the Origins of the Xenomorph to connected with a ALIEN Species, while also NOT Totally throwing out the Arc/Role that David had played.

The PROBLEM with a Continuation is if its seen as Financially Viable..... 

The Problem with making a NEW Franchise Movie is IF the Eventual Movie would just STICK to and PLAY it SAFE!

There is MORE to the Franchise than Ripley and Eggs and so you would HAVE to try and introduce the Xenomorph but do so in a way you can EXPLORE other things down the Line!

I don’t think that deep character development means: "The character behaves logically".

You can have a Shakespeare level in Alien. But if the script says - "A person licks the ovomorph". Then the deep quality of character will not save. At first glance, poor character development in Prometheus & AC is simply a consequence of observing the behavior of the characters in "special cases."

Millburn & Fifield were mediocre written supporting characters. Their role was to become victims. But it was served very rudely.

Same with Charlie & others. No matter how well written the characters are, when they scream YEEHAW, and rip off their helmets!

Same with Oram. Personally, I think this is a well-written character. At least, he is written better than Daniels (!!!). But then he just takes his head and puts it in the egg.

The problem is not the quality of the characters. But that they are forced to do stupid things.

Prometheus & AC have different screenwriters. And the fact that in both films the characters commit the same nonsense indicates that this is someone else's idea. Yes - we know whose idea it is! And I'm more than sure that if RS shoots a third film, the characters will do the same nonsense. Perhaps the maestro is trying to give us some kind of revelation?

Also, What's the point of having Earth in the story?

They might as well destroy it and leave how it was destroyed a mystery.

Set Alien 5 in the year 2533 where Earth is gone(destroyed), the tribes of Earth are scattered and are every bit as dangerous as the xeno.

Smith "Look Earth is gone, there's no going back!"

Jones "I'm not talking about Earth! More about Mars, the Sol system itself..Find some stuf.."

Smith "That system has been picked clean...there's nothing left..Nothing but khemfreaks and burners.."

Jones showed her his tattered hat, it was embroidered with a Weyland Corporation logo.

Jones “It’s real and from the twenty-first century!” , he boasted.

Smith grabbed it and shoved it in his face.

Jones “Hey!”

Smith “These bastards are the ones who started all this..” She attempted to tear it in two, failing to do so, she tossed it on the ground, stepping on it.

A shocked Jones retrieved his hat, knocking the dust from it. He didn’t care if Weyland Corp had gotten everybody on Earth killed, it was still a cool souvenir.

MonsterZero

This is the way! In fact, it’s better than cooking the franchise in the swamp of prequels.

But I would remove one zero from 5200 > 520. Blaming WY after 5200 years - it's like complaining about Cheops. In addition, the hat will decompose much earlier. xDDD

@Leto

Thanks! I changed it.

Need the history of khemfreaks....

BURNERS : An alien race...precursor to the Space Jockey. They burn their victims, then inhale the corpse(s) gases. Hence the Burners gas mask look.

WELL WELL WELL…….

What do we have here Alien fans???

Which came first the Xeno or the egg? Hummm? Ahhhhhhhh? Interesting! Intriguing! Spelling binding questions we have been wanting to know the answer to for so many years.

I have got it! But first we must address some of the previous comments……

BigDave said,  (What hasn’t BigDave said but I digress LOL)

Cough cough LOL where were we.

“JUDGING by the Varied Replies here it shows the RANGE of what People Like/Dislike and would LIKE to see or NOT see.

"The Prequels Certainly have been Divisive and YET they
opened up a LOT to expand on BEYOND just Eggs and
WHO laid them."

Very interesting question indeed BigDave but we know what BigDave really means.

People we keep going round and round with this same conversation and you all know where it is getting us all...please refer to this instructional video to understand more.

@Leto

Responding to-----> MonsterZero,

“This is the way! In fact, it’s better than cooking the franchise in the swamp of prequels.

Indeed yes! I’m sorry and I thought we were all getting somewhere with all of this by now.
Sorry Leto and MonsterZero this entire franchise is way overcooked already.

No the sad sad truth is we are not getting anywhere with any of this….we do know a person, that I do not even like to mention out loud in these sacred forums, that gave the insane idea to RS while making Prometheus that the “EGGS” we see in the Juggernaut in Alien is the result of David’s experimentation with the black goo and human dna.

This is where I start crying too Alien fans because in the next prequel David is supposed to show us how he will perfect the Queen Xenomorph so we can all see what lays those eggs in the Juggernaut in Alien also making what we see in Aliens possible as WELL......

And there you have it what came first the Xeno or the egg, well neither really David came first if we are all to accept it was Weyland's stupid robots tinkering trifling AI androids messing around with 1 million year old more advanced technologies involving the engineer black goo something or other.

Here is the real story pay attention class!

So the performances I saw in the original Alien movie are spectacular to say the least but do not connect with the other films. Looking more closely at Alien I sense a profound disconnect with the two prequels and perhaps a third prequel yet even to be made.

For me Alien fans the entire David arc is just this awful never ending loop in an episodic story where nothing really makes sense. We are all stuck in this endless loop going nowhere. Why though???...the Nostromo crew sets down on LV-426 to investigate this warning signal picked up by Weyland Corporation from a juggernaut what a surprise!, all while Ash a much more advanced android than David and Walter goes completely bonkers helping the Xenomorph the entire time to infect and kill the crew one by one….I mean I thought you all read special order 937 as well….That is very important because what it all means is a very bad plot contradiction…..you see in all these movies, even in Aliens Bishop says to Ripley “WELL that explains it well the A2’s were always a little bit twitchy that could never happen now with our behavioral inhibitors it is impossible for me to harm a human being yadda yadda yadda!!!……..Ahhh so even after creating David then Walter Weyland Corporation still puts a ridiculously malfunctioning artificial person - Hyperdyne Systems model 120-A/2 AKA – ASH on the Nostromo to infect the crew with what David has created so they can bring it back and study it, YOU ALL READ SPECIAL ORDER 937!!!!!!

Weyland Corp sends some ore mining space truckers to unwittingly get duped by incompetent ASH into exposing themselves to this thing???….HERE IS THE PROBLEM!!! Weyland Corporation already knows this is David’s creation it involves a “Superior species no doubt.” This is why they would have never sent a twitchy AI AKA ASH and some space truckers to go get it……they would have immediately gone there with an even bigger spaceship than Weyland’s research vessel and got what ever was on LV-426 with hundreds of extremely non twitchy sophisticated AI persons that could not be infected and would easily be able to get and control the Xenomorph…..you don’t think Weyland Corporation can’t make military versions of AI robots much faster, stronger, and more powerful than any Xenomorph…..it is also why Prometheus completely sux too…they would have never gone there with only some rifles and hand guns and a few scientists saying yo big dude engineers can you help us out like give us all your secrets....it's all laughable BULLSHITE!!!

HA! ALL LAUGHABLE NONSENSE, and you BigDave you have no excuse you have been defending this loop of senseless nonsense for years…..I digress though we need to save this franchise from all these bad things….I don’t see how yet or if it is even possible.

It is actually even a little more silly when you think about everything happening in real time in Prometheus because as everything is taking place in Prometheus it is being backed up to computers that are more intelligent than David and encrypted all while being sent back to Earth to go to Weyland Corporation’s AI systems…..So nothing really connects well with Alien. We are all stuck in this bad loop of films going so what….and then we lost the connection to all the colonists on LV-426, then Aliens happens and THEN RETCON…….GAME OVER MAN!

Ok so that’s my two cents Alien fans…..let the roasting begin! LOL

Attaboy!

The Superalien will make the Alien great again. We are not far from it.

To honour the bright future of Alien (and being tired of my old profile) I decided for an upgrade. So much for daliens, from now on I will be SuperAlien!

BigDave, sorry for hijacking your post to make this announcement, but this is the last one I was reading.

Masterpiece! Congratulations on rebirth!

Thank you for you kindness, Leto.

It's Bird! It's A PLANE! NO! IT'S SUPERDALIENS!

I see what you did there SuperAlien! Way to go! 
LMAO!!!! Very Awesome!

Great idea!

Nice Dal..err SuperAlien!

Crazy as it sounds...D.C. comics universe might be a better fit for the xeno.

LMAO!!!

We need to change the strategy, stop living in denial, Disney owns Alien, Disney owns Marvel, it is inevitable the two universes will collide. It will be a terrible fight. The question is not when, but who will be the first! And when everything would seem lost, the SuperAlien will make Alien great again.

We could keep talking about Ripley and Hicks and even the Engineers, but it would never be the same again. Times have changed. No matter how bad I hate to say it, Alien would have a great time hunting the Marvel Superheroes. This is already happening in the comics.

A dream within a dream?

Who's having nightmares now, Ripley?

You will see, BigDave, in a few years we'll discuss if the SuperAlien is vulnerable to Kryptonite and if the green crystal in Prometheus' Head Room was not green Kryptonite. You see, we never considered it until now. We need to expand our views beyond what we think we know about the Alien universe. God doesn't build in straight lines.

Can you imagine any kid waiting to see a film like this? And these toys are on the market for some time.

I'd like to see Superman infected with the black goo pathogen.

A Superman version of monster Fifield would be amazing!