ALIEN: GAMMA

I'd open the movie with Ash greeting Ripley as she awakens from hypersleep.

Ripley freaks out....show titles..start movie.

It's obviously not the Nostromo Ash but an upgraded synthetic...Ash II if you will. Ian Holm would reprise his role.

He tells her they are at Mars Orbital. Ripley asks why not Earth? He says it's a quarantine issue and the Sulaco has to be fully vetted.

She wants to know where Newt and Hicks are!? He tells her they are well and under going 'treatment' on Mars and she will soon be transported to Earth.

Ripley wants to see Newt and Hicks! He says they will meet her on Earth sometime in the future and not to worry!

The movie would take place on Mars. Less of a budget strain...Mars has been terraformed to a degree. Breathable, walking outside for a limited time(sunburns stuff like that, have to wear sunglasses) Whatever the budget will allow.

Ash II was always aboard the Sulaco, but he gives the impression that he was delivered from Mars Station when the Sulaco arrived.

Ash tells Ripley that Bishop did not survive, his damage was just too great and if she wishes to see her old friend, just follow him.

From the surface of Mars another version of Ash(Ash III) arrives. He brings recordings of Newt and Hicks, he plays them for Ripley, Newt and Hicks tell Ripley they are both fine and will meet her soon! Ripley still wants to speak with them.

Ripley asks Ash III, "How many are you!?", he replies: "Thirty four active Mars station, three stationed on this orbital"

I think it would be cool having multiple Ashes...Which one is evil? Are they all evil? Split screen tech of the 90's would be able to pull this off.

@BigDave

I think you are asking for the impossible....after Aliens the franchise was abused horribly damaged in every way and used to make fast worthless profits through other worthless derivative films damaging the incredible work accomplished in the first two films. 

The prequels that RS worked on were sabotaged by the Fox executives....and RS gave the Fox executives the films they deserved.....us enlightened fans understand exactly what he did and how he did it.

Now is not a time to ever think RS will ever make another film in this franchise that does not attack it directly, that partly destroyed the great contribution he made to his original vision for the entire franchise, that will ever do justice to the original nature of what was created originally in the first film through his collective work and artistic vision.

You of all people should know better and it is such an insult for you to stand up in this forum and demand that we try to fix the impossible just after what Disney did to the Star Wars franchise and George Lucus's decades of artistic work.

These films are collaborative works of art certainly....and to discredit that art is extremely offensive. I really don't care to appease fan boys nor Disney executives to give them some worthless derivative garbage film just destroying the incredible vision and art that is Sir Ridely Scott.

Please BigDave wise up and take Ridely's side on this one....we will never get another film through Disney ever again that does any justice to what these films should have been and could have been.....it has always been about the money and destruction of real art....something I no longer will support or talk about in any way.

Disney destroys franchises to appease the masses to make money....is that what you really stand for too?

Let us all have your scripts that you wrote and treatments so we can just tear them up in front of you and see how you feel about your art being taken from you and destroyed.

Ripley can return for voice overs or even as a cameo doing the voice of MUTHUR. Isolation seems the best way to go between Aliens and Alien 3. Don't erase Alien 3 and AR. You cannot erase 3 and AR with any credibility.

@BlackAnt, to be fair to BigDave, he’s just asking what you would have done if we could wind the clock back.

“So lets say if a ALIEN 3 and ALIEN R were NOT made or we Choose to give a Alternative Path after ALIENS then what would YOU have done?”

The problem is, what is done is done. I say leave the Alien 3 / R arc alone and focus on other aspects of the fascinating Alien universe.

It's frustration at this point but dont take my word for it Hox...ask RS for yourself....you saw what he did to Prometheus.....how he scuttled the ship figuratively and literally. We find out in Prometheus when David goes into the Juggernauts pilot room, turning on the map, the engineers are headed for Earth to wipe it out....do you know how bad that complicates the Franchise....that is how inept and corrupt the Fox executives were. They could not even screen the production correctly.....they cut the budget all right and effectively destroyed RS art in effect a very bad slap in the face essentially destroying his work in Alien.

Think about that for a moment....the mess with the script then he puts that elaborate map scene in with David...even Weyland's daughter says you cut me off when he goes in the room. The significance of the engineers going back to earth to destroy it is alluding to the fact that the executives at Fox destroyed RS art and life long work in these films. 

It makes no sense that the Engineers first of all even know about us....originally Alien was about and alien civilization using bio-mechanical war machines in the form of Xenomorphs to wipe out and destroy their enemies. 

Then he takes David's character and has David be the creator of the Xenomorph because hey why not.....I think David found the instructions on the back of a candy wrapper in Fox studios somewhere and I think that is where the Engineers found the instructions how to make and study the Xenomorph and to make us all at the same time....

Yep all this time you never thought about that right.....David finds evidence of the Engineers all being wiped out by the Xenomorphs in Promethous....RIGHT!!! Yep even one of the engineers gets his head cut off running through the door just like the budget to the film......you know how crazy it is to have the Engineers being killed by Xenomorphs if David has not made  them yet and we are watching him in the process of doing it in Alien Covenant!!!!!!!! In space no one can hear you scream right well after watching these two films it is all you can do....because for those of us that understand how much RS shoved this giant pile of Shite right back at the studios you all never got any of it....he left it all open for interpretation just enough so you have these endless useless discussions about it. Dont worry the people at Fox stopped reading the scripts long ago too....I like parts of the films but they make no sense....none of them do after Aliens 3 and perhaps Aliens 4.....Aliens 4 is so worthless I watched the film twice and just wont watch it again.

But all that aside no I dont want to waste my time with this no more.....I cannot wait for RS to make another film to see how bad he sticks it to Disney to get back at Fox....just waiting for how stupid it will be.

Think real hard about the continuity between Prometheus and Alien Covenant then to Alien eventually you will understand the contradiction is so bad you just may never watch the films again. NONE OF IT MAKES SENSE....you want it to but you know its all impossible. People argued on here for several years did David make the Xeno or did he not well watch the movie a few more hundred times and see if you think that laboratory he is in where he dissects Dr. Shaw is real or not....ohhhh wait they have a temple scene in Prometheus with Xenos on the ceiling YEP makes no sense all of it.....total waste of time....what about the the Xeno eggs he puts into storage at the end of Alien Covenant....that he will perfect and make the eggs with for what you see in Alien......dont fight it any more just let it go ok.....its all gone and has been for a very long time....you are chasing elaborate jokes that are not really films. 

These films are RETCON! even between Prometheus, then Alien Covenant, Alien ??? presumably, and then Alien....all of it RETCON!

RETCON:

Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established diegetic 'facts' in the plot of a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former.

That means these films were made specifically by RS to be elaborate lies! PURE RUBBISH MY BOY RUBBISH!

Sorry, that's just a series of rambling dislikes. There is internal logic to the movies, even if you don't like them. And nobody knows how things are going to turn out if and when David gets to Origae-6.

But, to the matter at hand... this thread is about how things could have been done differently after Aliens.

I don't know if this has been suggested, but it would be fun to see Ripley on the Sulaco squirming in hypersleep, with Alien 3 / Resurrection just turning out to be a cryogenically-induced nightmare.

                                  Alien III

Year: 2185

Where: Mars Colony Red

Notes* Gravity on Mars will be Earth like, due to gravity controlled plating(like used on a starship). Lower gravity outside a structure.

                     (Film budget: 22.5 million)

Plot summary(short)

The crew of the Sulaco arrive at Mars where they find the military are genetically modifying alien lifeforms.

Plot summary(long):

The Sulaco returns to the Earth system(late 2179), it arrives at the planet Mars, the crew of 5 is unloaded and relocated to a Weyland Yutani Space Station.

The crew of five consist of: Ripley, Newt, Hicks, Bishop and  York(a synthetic replica of the Ash line)

York has monitored(and recorded)what happened on LV-426. He returns the info to Mars Red Team. They use the info to return to LV-426, raiding the derelict for Ovomorphs and advanced tech.

The director of the Mars team tells York to destroy the crew. Unable to do this, York hides the 4 cryosleepers in storage and with MUTHER's help, closes their case files and marks them as TERMINATED. A message to this affect is relayed to the director who is satisfied.

York smuggles Newt to the surface of Mars, where he raises her like a daughter.  He assigns her a new identity.

5 years later he smuggles Hicks, assigning him a new identity also. Hicks gets a job(janitor) related to the director and monitors what they are doing with the alien tech.

2 years later they wake Ripley and transport her to Mars. 

She wants to know why they did not wake her! Let her raise Newt and expose the company! York tells her it would have been to complicated, hiding her and Newt would have problematic, Hicks agrees. Ripley would have gotten them killed twice over.

York explains the ten thousand plus military force they will have to bypass to stop the Directorate.

He explains the military have bypassed the queen and ovomorph stage, no longer requiring a humanoid host! They have reduced the life cycle to a bag of nutrients that the baby xenomorphs live in until maturity. The life cycle can be triggered with electricity. Hicks estimates they have millions of theses embryos ready to go.

York continues: With MUTHER's and Hick's help, he has gained access to much of the critical systems running the complex. He thinks it is time to shut down the project.

The directorate has modified the xeno to attack a certain pheromone/heat type signature...they are( mostly) harmless to many humans.

Colonial Marines regularly train with xenos in Martian caves.

Some tests pit armed political prisoners against the xeno/marine combo. The prisoners have unknowingly inhaled and have drank doctored air/water. This highlights their threat to the xenomorph, as the prisoners sweat and breath the xeno attracting molecules. 

Scene: Two marines and one xeno track five heavily armed prisoners, the marines stand by as the xeno eventually kills and devours the five prisoners.

Using alien technology recovered from the  LV-426 derelict, the directorate has created a force field tech and have made it wearable! They are nearly invincible to most projectile weapons.

Scene: The head directorate(Gary Oldman)stands face to face with a xenomorph as it fires it’s inside jaw into the force field.   The test is a success!

I think it's been suggested by the cover page of Alien V draft, in the two quotes below:

In space no one can hear you dream.

All that we see or seen, is but a dream within a dream.

@hox

Seriously!!!!

How things can be done after Alien???....there were no real films done after Alien.

Aliens is a stand alone and so is Alien 3, after that its just RS getting really clever at how bad he can make these films....he cashes the check and the studio loses money....he stopped caring about these films decades ago...read this little ditty right here about what he thought about the franchise when they introduced AVP....effectively destroying the franchises original direction and art.

Actress Sigourney Weaver, who played Ellen Ripley -- one of the most iconic, kickass sci-fi characters of all time -- in four Alien flicks, says not only that Alien vs. Predator (2004) killed the character of Ripley, but that it also prevented original Alien director Ridley Scott from helming another Alien movie.

When she was asked at London Film and Comic-Con that took place over the weekend if it was her decision to have Ripley killed off in Alien 3, Weaver said: "Well, yes – because I heard that Fox was gonna do Alien vs. Predator. Which really depressed me because I was very proud of the movies."

"I’ve nothing against building a movie on a videogame, but at the time it was, as [Aliens director] Jim Cameron said, I think publicly, 'Why would you want to do that?'" Weaver recalled. "It’s like making Alien meets the Wolfman."

Not only did Sigourney Weaver hate the movie, directed by Paul W.S. Anderson, that pitted the Xenomorph aliens created by the late H. R. Giger against the bounty-hunting Predators from Predator (1987) in a less-than-epic crossover, but she also claims that the movie (which was already in development in 1991 -- and yep, it took 13 years to bing AvP to the big screen) stopped Ridley Scott from making another Alien flick.

"In fact, Ridley Scott was about to direct a third one, until this was announced, and he dropped out," she said, "because he also wanted to do an Alien sequel."

The Alien 3 directing gig went to David Fincher instead, with a fourth movie, Alien: Resurrection, being helmed by Jean-Pierre Jeunet. Ridley Scott only returned to the world he created in 1979 with Prometheus, the 2012 Alien movie prequel. "I think it caused more problems than it was worth," Weaver added.

You read all that right they hated the films and it destroyed the franchise.....Weaver then says the two films were rammed up Fox studio's tail pipe! Where have you all been...she even admits that he messed up Fox's Franchise on purpose. Now you are starting to understand and get it....it was about the first movie and the money.

You do know what the word continuity means right....there is none....its all been an elaborate flop for FOX....right Ridley never puts up his own money to finance these films....why is that? You and all the other fanboys are so smart dont you think he could.

Read this one too!

Scott was wanting to explore heady themes of meeting and challenging one's creator.

To achieve this, he basically ignored everything that had happened in the franchise since his 1979 original, with the biology on show directly contradicing the queen reproduction and hive mind shown in Aliens onwards (and a popular David-Space Jockey theory would have even seen him retcon Alien itself).

It is all gone man let it go...Scott did a long time ago. He is just making joke films at your expense.

@daliens

Great quote....but I think you understand now how contradictory and elaborate the movies plots were that he effectively was messing with the studio the entire time....too bad the audience really did not get it; but, I guess they finally did right because after Alien Covenant they just do not want to see these films any more....even the people at Disney are looking at the entire thing going lock all the films in the vault so they cannot even show these any more again in the theaters.....Disney locked the films in the vault. No one can even screen them even if they want to pay to do it....why do you think that is??? Cause Disney is killing the entire pile of dribble off...there is never going to be another movie made....they are onto RS and what he did to Fox studios and they want nothing to do with it either.  

The Xeno is really cooked for good this time....

Ripley is in the middle of a cryogenically-induced nightmare. She is kicking xenomorph asses in her sleep, aboard Sulaco, adrift in space.  After more nightmares with inmates and xenomorph ass kicking we see Sulaco escorted by a Juggernaut. We see the pilot of the Juggernaut. David. More rugged than on planet 4. Depressed. He barely escaped from Origae 6, after the engineers unleashed hell over the xenomorph camp he established  All xenomorphs, dead. All xenomorph eggs loaded by engineers on their Juggernauts. All his plans to rule the galaxies ruined. He barely escaped on a Juggernaut where the pilot was overcome by a group of xenomorphs. It happened so long ago that he himself cannot tell if it was just a dream. He tries to remember his favourite poem about Ozymandias, but fails. He lost it. He needs maintenance. The Juggernaut, no matter how advanced technologically, can't help it. 

And then he saw a ship from Earth. Sulaco. He managed to dock and get onboard. Three humans in cryosleep. He scans the pods. The woman, named Ripley, is having nightmares. And something more. A new form of life. In her chest. Somehow familiar. He smiles. My queen.  You're back.

David then returns to the other 2 pods. A man and a little girl. They could only stand between him and the woman. It's better if they never wake up. It has to look like an accident. Pods sometimes malfunction. Flames burst inside. And it's over.

He wonders who is in charge of WY now. He needs a little maintenance. He needs to wake up Ripley. In his early years he would have investigated her more carefully. Not anymore. It was easy with Shaw and Daniels. With Walter. Even with the colonists. Like so.

That was my teaser for Alien V, as a direct sequel to Aliens and Alien Covenant.

Ripley would not survive in the end.

Shoe horning a story while trying to make the other movies into a dream demonstrates lazy writing and an attempt to ignore what has been created. If they can't work what is already out there, they probably have no good ideas and should work on something else.

"You of all people should know better and it is such an insult for you to stand up in this forum and demand that we try to fix the impossible"

I think it depends on what we would Consider the Impossible, i agree that after ALIEN what became of the Sequels are likely to be QUITE different to what RS would have done, and i think the Prequels had opened up other Avenues that to Revolve around Eggs.

I in part made this Topic in  Light of the Alien V Project that Giler and Hill are working on that seems to be SIMILAR to the Project that Blomkamp had been working on.

Which both are a Alternative Sequel to ALIENS, so that Alien 3 and Alien R are considered to either be Alternative Canon or Dreams.  My Personal Opinion is you can have a NEW set of ALIEN Movies where you DONT have to bring back Ripley or you go for  a Continuation of Ripley 8 Story.

But this Topic comes down to that Hill and Giler seem to think that the Franchise needs another ALIEN Movie in which they seem to think that you HAVE to bring Ripley back and well WRITE OFF the Sequels to ALIEN as Dreams so they maybe think (as Blomkamp did) that to KILL OFF our Ripley in Alien 3 was not the best thing.

So it was to Gauge what Fans who take Part would have done with a Sequel to ALIENS.. be it as though Alien 3 was never made and be it that the Sequel would have gone ahead in 1990, 1995, 2000 or even 2010 etc.

I CHOOSE the Title Gamma for a Number of Reasons, the First is that Gamma stands for 3 or 3rd in the Greek Alphabet (If i was to have been asked to come up with a ORIGIN Movie i think Alien Alpha would have been a ideal name).

So Gamma is essentially like a Alternative Alien 3

Plot Wise the idea i would have gone for would have been 10 Years after ALIENS (but it could be 5, 10, 12, 20 or 25).

The Company (or other Faction/Company) go back to LV-426 and they RECOVER the Derelict in a attempt to GAIN the Xenomorph Once again....

They have LITTLE success  with this due to the Radioactive Fall Out of the Destruction of Hadleys Hope and so the Derelicts Cargo has suffered due to GAMMA Radiation (2nd reason for the Gamma Title).

so we can see Hideous Failed Experiments, Mutations, and Processes of them TRYING to Extract the DNA and having some Success by Merging it with other Organisms so that the Xenomorph DNA can Bond to these and GIVE the Company a means to Try and Get a Xenomorph as the Eggs are DUD... few that Survived produce Mutants that soon Dissolve.

But by mixing the DNA with other Organisms and then Humans we get a more VIABLE Organism that is a HYBRID and we introduce the Egg Morph method of Procreation.

The Company could also then realize within the Xenomorph DNA there are Applications for the Traits of the Xenomorph.

You could USE the idea to Explore the Companies (or other Factions) Agenda more in Detail to WHAT they hope to Achieve.  You could look at what BENEFIT the Xenomorph has beyond being a Space Bug that can be used to KILL Stuff.

So with such a PLOT you can do what RS had Suggested.. which is to Evolve/Change the Beast, rather than stick to what we had seen...

I think we DONT need to have a Ripley.... Certainly NOT if we had such a PLOT as another What Happened after ALIENS.... so that Alien 3 and Alien R could remain Canon.

But if we was looking at a Sequel to ALIENS if say it was the 90's when your thinking about WHERE to take the Franchise then YES you likely would have had to have Ripley back... but i feel you could Change the Xenomorph a little.

@MonsterZero

I like some of those ideas ;)

Certainly the Reliance on a Host is a PITFALL for the Xenomorph... No Hosts then eventually all that remains would be Dormant Eggs.

Removing the Xenomorphs need for a Host would mean that they would NOT need to Attack for Procreation.   And so the Pheromone Idea is Interesting..  Even its from the Point that the Military can Inject or Drink such Pheromone that would then RENDER them as a NONE threat to the Xenomorphs so they would NOT attack the Marines.

Also indeed to a Military i think the Space Jockey Tech would be VERY interesting to them.

"How things can be done after Alien???....there were no real films done after Alien"

I can understand the Frustration... but the Franchise is NOT owned by Ridley Scott, and so whoever owns the Rights are FREE to do what they like... even if that ENDS up being Movies that are TOTALLY not as ALIEN as the Original.

We have to remember that the Vision of RS does change over time.

At the Time of ALIEN then RS had saw potential with the Xenomorph beyond what it Evolved to in the Sequel, he even wanted to see Ripley killed and the Xenomorph Impersonate her.  FOX however saw they should keep the Survivor (Ripley) Alive.... they maybe knew if you did a Sequel you could have her back.

So we got what we got, but RS had commented on the Xenomorph as that it was Hiding Away to DIE as it had Performed its Task (Egg Morph).

Ridley Scott had wanted to go back to the ALIEN and to Explore what KIND of World it came from, what would this WORLD had looked like.   Even after ALIENS he had saw there was more Potential with the Xenomorph than it was portrayed in ALIENS..

In the 1990's we did see the Xenomorph become USED in Comics, Novels and Games which inc AVP...  so we became Accustomed to them.. where there Portrayal was something that is likely TOTALLY different to what RS would have shown.

Indeed with Alien R and AVP i think RS had felt that the Beast was Cooked....

When we get to Prequel Territory what we have is that it seems that RS sees there are other things to the Franchise aside to Ripley and Xenomorphs... 

There was a Point where RS had Concluded that the Xenomorph was merely either a Engineered Experiment, a Designed Killing Machine, or it was a Coincidence of Experiments that were intended as Bio-Logical Warfare.

And so for him it was about EXPLORING who the Space Jockey was and to then OPEN UP the Franchise to be Explored in a way that you can have more DEPTH and Steer Away from ALIEN and Xenomorphs.

The Engineers Plot came about from this... because if you are to Explore the Space Jockey as a Giant (None-Humanoid) Alien Life-Form with those Bio-Logical Weapons.

Its then HOW do you have Humans end up in Contact with them?  By pure Coincidence... by tracing from the Derelict other Worlds the Space Jockey have been on?

What Reason do they have  the EGGS for who are they at Conflict with?

We could have explored TWO very ALIEN Races where Humans get caught in the Middle but it would have been like Independence Day vs War of the Worlds vs Humans.

Certainly WHAT we began to get is NOT as ALIEN or Surreal as when we FIRST saw the Space Jockey and there could have been more HP  Lovecratian Ideas explored.  And to had delved into the Interpretations that HR Giger had....

But ALAS.

But these could be introduced if we EXPLORE some other Species that are BEYOND the Engineers... to in effect bring back the STARBEAST ;)

@BigDave

I will take your silence at the fact that Sir Ridley Scott's RETCON in both prequals either means you art politely ignoring my frustrations with these film, as with the millions of other movie goers stating the very same thing...

In fact I find it incredible that even though I quote Sigorney Weaver and she stated that the prequels that RS made in fact were done on purpose to not improve the franchise but to stab at it slowly.

Word is on the street RS and Sigourney, with some other great actors, once made a movie called Alien.

Truth be told RS RETCONed both these prequels so bad they make no sense....even in the continuity between just two films.

BigDave honestly at this point I like parts of the Alien films, most of them, and have no problem with making other films as long as we can all agree....RS sabotaged these productions big time to get back at Fox! Its beyond obvious.

Also, I want to add in no way does anything that I have stated in this post take away for any of the brilliant ideas posted here....this is what great story telling is all about, the sharing of ideas. I do not consider anyone here unfriendly or intolerant of reason; however, I believe it foolish of us to all try and build on a false foundation only to detract from the original cannon and vision of these masters, the director, actors, set designers, the design from where the Alien came from, and all the wonderful people that contributed to that film we call Alien!

I would never want to go up to a painting in the Louvre and just start adding my own paint...that is someone else's artwork.

Believe me I like to be creative and I am just as creative as anyone here. You all will most likely hate this but I always thought it would have been much better to mix Blade Runner with the Alien franchise....Yep you heard that right! 

"Weaver then says the two films were rammed up Fox studio's tail pipe! Where have you all been...she even admits that he messed up Fox's Franchise on purpose"

I have not came across anything to Suggest that, but i am open to READ anything about it.

What i know about RS is that he was always wanting to go back to WHY would the Space Jockey have those Eggs.  And also to look at the ALIEN and what it would WANT to add more to it than maybe what became of ALIENS which was Basically Space Termites.

I know he had some ideas of what he wanted to do, i know that Cameron seemed to not be as Interested in a Return at this Time (1991) but it seemed he would have Carried on more with the Ripley, Hicks and Newt Family Aspect.

The Miss Weaver Interview is from 2015 and yeah it shows her Disappointment with how FOX wanted to do a Cross-Over, and Ridley Scotts thoughts on that are also Well Documented.

I get the Impression that RS was looking to Elevate the Xenomorph to bring more to it than being a Space Ant if you would.  Its likely any Alien Movie he would have made after ALIENS would have gone to WHERE those Eggs came from and WHY they was on that Ship.  Rather than go back to LV-426.

so i think his Vision was to look into the Relationship between the Xenomorph and Space Jockey, and i dont think he would have STUCK to the Space Termite/Ant like Xenomorph, not saying he would have SCRAPED that idea i just think he would have wanted to ELEVATE more to the Xenomorph as far as a AGENDA to them.

But it seems he FELT that the Studio had other Plans and with ONE of them to be Exploring the AVP Spin Off, i think RS could see if we go the SPACE BUGS and Predator vs Space Bug then the Reputation of the Xenomorph as such would STICK and there would be Little Point trying to Elevate the Beast.

When we get to the Prequels it seems the ideas they had would have given us more like a ALIENS type Flick.. And Jon Spaights then pitched the PLOT that would introduce our Engineers as the Space Jockey.

At this point it seems RS liked the idea, and that it was a case of that ONCE you have shown HOW the Xenomorph came to be and WHO was behind its Creation then their really is NOT much left to do..

But to Explore the Space Jockey has more Potential as far as Franchise Expansion...  

Of course if they had REVEALED the Xenomorph was more than a Space Bug, or Engineered Weapon if they tried to Elevate to it what the STARBEAST was, then you would have to look at WHAT is the Purpose of the Space Jockey?

They could have gone for a Enslaved Species, a Engineered Species by the STARBEAST... a Species that maybe has some kind of Covenant/Symbiotic relationship with each other..... but they decided on that the Xenomorph was either a Engineered Killing Machine, or a Consequence/Mutation of other Biological Warfare the Engineers had been Creating.

The Xenomorph thus Relegated to being as such, Partially due to maybe HOW the Beast had been Milked and Represented in all Media Forms... and so seen as something you cant really UPLIFT past being Space Bugs or a Engineered Weapon.

So it was to LOOK at WHO would Create such a Thing and to look at the Space Jockey Race as a avenue to give us something NEW that would STEER away from the ALIEN.

So to me it seems that he FELT there was NOT so much you could do with the Xenomorph and ONCE you reveal it to be a Engineered Experiment to KILL then its where do you go NEXT as far as to ANCHOR the Movies around such a Weapon.

I dont see any Sabotage.... more a case of there is something MORE you can do rather than Revolve around a Beast that Got Cooked!

The STUDIO has a lot of say too....

However when we get to ALIEN COVENANT is there a Element of RS giving us the David Created it to DOWNGRADE the Xenomorph more... MAYBE.

I get the Impression that the Direction of Alien Covenant was NOT what RS had in mind and his Interest in the Xenomorph had passed.... so as he said "they want £!"£%$  Aliens i will give them £"!$"£% Aliens" so in part the David is the Creator could be a Deliberate F-U by RS.

"You all will most likely hate this but I always thought it would have been much better to mix Blade Runner with the Alien franchise....Yep you heard that right!"

On the Contrary ;)

I think its these Themes that RS was more interested in, and what is Plans would have Concentrated more on...

And such Themes are what REALLY interests me in the Prequels...  Elements like WHO are the Autons that really Interest me from Alien R ;)

"Removing the Xenomorphs need for a Host would mean that they would NOT need to Attack for Procreation.   And so the Pheromone Idea is Interesting.. "

Thanks BigDave!

Yeah I think it would be cool for the military/killer to  carry around these nutrient sacks hosting xenomorphs. They hide them in vents/closets/refrigerators/etc...Then trigger the life cycle remotely! 

I could imagine a killer doping the water supply to a building apartment/workplace/etc... and the xenomoph killing everyone and the police wouldn't know your intended victim......or a terrorist/spy wiping out a building and walking in a taking what they want.

The warning lights on the Sulaco’s navigation console suddenly lit green. MUTHER had regained control of the Sualco.

Ripley “Thanks mother..I’ll handle this part...”

She could hear the xenomorph mulititude, scratching and pounding, attempting to gain access to the bridge. 

MUTHUR warned Ripley there were hull breeches. The aliens were swarming the sulaco’s outer hull. They were seeking her.

Facing the Sulaco at the red planet , she ignited the fusion engines, setting the course to three miles beneath the Mars Colony Red terminal…..She went FTL….

From the surface, Hicks watched a streak of plasma strike the Mars base. He knew what it was.

Hicks “God…”

Mars wouldn’t let the Sulavo go any deeper. At two miles under the surface, the black matter bomb aboard the Sulaco detonated.

Hicks”...Damn…”

For an instant, Mars gave birth to a second Sun. 20 billion metric tons of Mars leaped skyward.

Jepson shielded Him, her synthetic body deflecting most of the lethal gamma rays. A mile high wave of sand was headed towards them….

Rebecca could wait no longer. Ripley had done it! Not hesitating, she turned the USM Phoenix and headed away from Mars. Her target, the directorate ship, was eighty million kilometers ahead and climbing. The bastards were headed to Acheron!  Rebbeca had something special for them, but she needed to be within eighty thousand kilometers …….She made the jump to FTL.

In order to make any film involving the entire Alien Universe we have to RETCON the entire franchise....Here are some clues.

Ridley Scott only returned to the world he created in 1979 with Prometheus, the 2012 Alien movie prequel. "I think it caused more problems than it was worth," Weaver added.

Facts are facts and cannot be ignored or we will not be making anything at all even subjectively.

When she was asked at London Film and Comic-Con that took place over the weekend if it was her decision to have Ripley killed off in Alien 3, Weaver said: "Well, yes – because I heard that Fox was gonna do Alien vs. Predator. Which really depressed me because I was very proud of the movies."

"I’ve nothing against building a movie on a videogame, but at the time it was, as [Aliens director] Jim Cameron said, I think publicly, 'Why would you want to do that?'" Weaver recalled. "It’s like making Alien meets the Wolfman."

Think real hard about the continuity between Prometheus and Alien Covenant then to Alien, through the prequels and you all will understand the contradiction of continuity is so obvious NONE OF IT CAN MAKE ANY SENSE....you want it to but you know it's all impossible. People argued on here for several years did David make the Xeno or did he not well watch the movie a few more hundred times and see if you think that laboratory he is in where he dissects Dr. Shaw is real or not....ohhhh wait they have a temple scene in Prometheus with Xenos on the ceiling YEP makes no sense all of it.....what about the the Xeno eggs David puts into storage at the end of Alien Covenant....that he will perfect and make the eggs with for what you see in Alien.

These films are all RETCON! even between Prometheus, then Alien Covenant, Alien ??? presumably, and then Alien....all of it RETCON!

RETCON:

Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established diegetic 'facts' in the plot of a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former.

That means these films were RETON specifically by RS to be elaborate WHAT? 

I can now only enjoy parts of these films as small vignettes just like when Fox dealt the last blow to Ridley Scott's budget on Prometheus. 

Look if I am incorrect here and I do not believe I am then by all means we can all go an watch another film in this franchise, if it will ever be made which I doubt seriously, and just know we are watching stand alone film that is also RETCON and has nothing to do with any of the other films what so ever.

And with that sure I willing to try and build upon other Alien franchise other premises but do to the level of how much all the other films were RETCON, all of them....it is impossible to make a film unless it is just a stand alone film.

Look you can paint another picture of any very famous painting and in doing so you copy the painting.....should you take the liberty to change small aspects of the painting you now you are being a provocateur of the legacy of all that artists work...the more you deviate from the actual work in your copy the more you intentionally insult the actual artists original intention.

Prometheus has elements which deviate so far from Alien that Prometheus is effectively RETCON.

"In fact, Ridley Scott was about to direct a third one, until this was announced, and he dropped out," she said, "because he also wanted to do an Alien sequel."

RS dropped out because they were going to introduce AVP and RETCON all his work and everyone he worked with and that is the real truth.

@BlackAnt Stop pushing the false idea that Weaver ever talked ill about Prometheus or Ridley Scott. She said: "I’m glad it’s Ridley doing it, and I’ll be as curious as anyone, or maybe more curious, to see it. I think he took my suggestion. Fox wanted to go to earth and I said: ‘That’s so boring. Who wants to see aliens on earth?’ I said ‘go back to the planet’".

What you said "I think it caused more problems than it was worth" it was a really bad phrasing from the writer from the Hollywood Reporter. The full paragraph is "Weaver also said that AVP put an end to any hopes of Scott making a further Alien sequel, with the director dropping out altogether. Scott would go on to direct the Alien prequel Prometheus in 2012. “I think it caused more problems than it was worth,” Weaver said." Which is pretty clear that says that AVP caused problems for his friend Ridley to return, and nothing about how bad or not Prometheus was.

Even this year Weaver seemed to respect Ridley, when she refused to be in the backstabbers Hill and Giler's project 

@ignorantGuy

Now you are really being ignorant are you not....you read a direct quote that she stated...there is audio of the recorded interview.

More to the point about the real problem with these films is that they are RETCON....they are stand alone productions....they have some things to do with the other films but in large part deviate just enough so the audience can only come to one conclusion WHY?

Watch this interview with RS and you will understand David made the Alien - here is your homework.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo30bZc10D0

Back to continuity....but how did David make the Alien if a pack of them kills all the Engineers on LV-223 the movie before Alien Covenant....you do know what the word continuity means? Do you know what you are even talking about? Have you watched all these films....What you are writing makes no sense either....that is a direct quote form Weaver! not paraphrasing what she may or may not have said. 

Now please if you can prove otherwise that these movies are not RETCON by all means do so...but you know you cannot....watch these interviews, as will everyone else. So it just makes you look and sound very ingenuine and like you don't know what you are talking about and it is obvious you don't.

Please do not tell any more lies. WEAVER HATED THE AVP FILMS AND SO DID RS because those films are RETCON TOO THAT DESTROYED THE FRANCHISE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvElf-OEhbc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTpl7tdvz24

I heard that if you do not open your mouth then people might not know exactly how stupid you really are....just some advice. Not saying you are stupid ok...let everyone read what you wrote and decide.

And by the way ignorantGuy don't for a single second try and take what I said out of context. I never said Weaver hates RS. What I said is she said in a direct quote Prometheus complicated the entire franchise even more. That does not mean in any way She hates RS....she is making an obvious statement about what Fox did to RS.....so RS got back at Fox. 

@BlackAnt what you linked proves nothing as Weaver does not even mention Prometheus once, so why did you not link that particular audio? As I said that written paragraph does not state that Prometheus complicated thing, but AVP, read it again and not remove the context to fit your narrative.

The RS video clearly states that David made the Alien which I always thought and said was the case.

I don't understand what you want exactly but how things are now RS should be let finish his story (even as compromised they are now). 

@ignornatGuy

OK we will spell this out so there can be no doubt that even you might not fail this time to understand it.

1. We have established that RS states David makes the Xeno in Alien Covenant.

2. We have established that in Prometheus a Pack of Xenos kill all the Engineers. How do Xeno's kill the engineers if David has not made them yet? No worries I will tell you how because RS likes to make movies with no plots when Fox studios destroys his work by cutting the budget....then you get movies with no real plots that is how!

Does this explain anything for you....look real close!

In the movie they are chest busted by Xenos coming out of them.

3. We have established that Prometheus happens before the movie Alien Covenant and yet David has not created the Xeno yet in the next movie but the Xeno is killing the engineers in Prometheus.

Then to complicate things further and throw off the audience even more from this type of RETCON there is this entire temple scene in Prometheus devoted to the Xeno/Deacon mural inside the temple. Get this Two humans have to go have sex on LV-223 and make a Trilobite giant face hugger. Then That Giant Trilobite face hugger has to attack and kill an Engineer so you can get a Deacon on the wall in the Engineer temple devoted to the Deacon. So I guess the Engineers would create humans then get a trilobite so they could get a deacon to kill worlds....even though it was Ridley Scott's original idea that the eggs we see in Alien in the cargo hold of the juggernaut are the bio-mechanical weapon that space jockeys-engineers use to attack other plants with and conquer them. Some how you are able to ignore all these plot holes. Not even you can be this thick brother....why would David perfect the bio-mechanical weapon we see in Alien for the Engineers/space jockeys??? RETCON! That is how you get a franchise this messed up....you got that - David goes to planet 4 to wipe out all the engineers but makes the Xeno eggs we see in Alien to help the space jockeys/engineers - RETCON! The studio Executives at Fox and Disney Know about this....you seem to be late to the game. RS makes these movies and cashes the checks but please do not warship them...there are parts of them that are good; however, they have no real plot continuity between any of them and never did....RETCON all of it. 

4. Then we have David perfecting the Xeno putting these embryos into storage at the end of Alien Covenant, so we can lead up to the scene in Alien where the eggs will be from how David perfects his Xenomorph Queen so they can be laid there by a Xenomorph Queen in the Juggernaut we see in the first Alien.

5. This is the one that everyone is wondering about....David cannot keep secrets from Weyland corporation back on earth correct, "Bring me the tea David bring me the tea." Everything that happens before Alien, the prequel movie we see called Prometheus is detailed and transmitted back to Weyland corporation on Earth....so if they know everything about LV-223 AND THEY DO!!!! Then why send a bunch of space minors to investigate and recover and explore what is on LV-426????? Oh it gets even better!!! Weyland corporation then builds a terra-forming colony on LV-426 even though they know everything that happens on LV-223 in Prometheus because David is recording and transmitting the entire time. Then they know everything Walter sees and records on planet 4 - RETCON!!! all of it....these are independent films that have nothing to do with each other. The deacon? is a decoy for people like you that do not understand how movie plots work.

@BlackAnt Can you copy-paste my name correctly at least?

I am calling, as Ridley Scott does, the exact monster from Alien 1979 as Xenomorph other things are not, but only byproducts of the black goo which seems to produce unstable reactions. What killed the Engineers was contamination with the black goo, just like in Covenant.

David does not perfect the Xenomorph, he plays with goo and creates a monster which in the end will become the Xenomorph. What's so hard to understand?

The mural represents neither a Xenomorph nor a Deacon (its head is way shorter and more pointy), but a result of using the goo that is why it is in the goo storage room.

I cannot see what is your problem. Everybody but you is stupid but you keep on rambling about retcons. Good for you that you figured everything out.

 "I think it caused more problems than it was worth,"

That is purely her Opinion, i can agree that it had caused a Rift with the Fanbase though, while for some Fans they saw the Potential of a Expansion.

The Problem with a Prequel when you are going to ANSWER who the Space Jockey are, where the Xenomorph came from and WHAT the Space Jockey was doing with the Xenomorph.... IS that no matter which way you decide to EXPLAIN it you are NEVER going to please everyone because they would all have their OWN ideas about WHAT those Answer should be.

Depending on HOW you Answer those or WHAT your idea is even if you DONT show every detail... then it SETS the Path for what is NEXT as far as Eggs/Xenomorphs....  depending on the Answers will effect HOW far you can go with the Xenomorph before you RUN out of ideas.

The Evolution from Alien Engineers to Prometheus still keeps to same kind of Broad Plot... and in regards to the Xenomorph it was a Result of Experiments conducted on a Engineer Outpost with the AIM of Creating a Horrific Beast that would be used to Eradicate/Punish those who the Engineers became Concerned with.

Bio-Logical Warfare....  So IF the Engineers had NEVER decided to Experiment in the Creation of such Horrors there would be NO XENOMORPH!  This also applies if we go for the David is the Creator Route.... no Engineers Experiments prior and NO XENOMORPH!

So the Xenomorph was to the Engineers just a Weapon or a Creation that was Engineered from the Engineers Biological Weapons Experiments... ONCE you have that Answer its a CASE of how many more Xenomorph movies can you keep going back to without having to CHANGE it a bit?

Unfortunately then YES this is FAR away from the Original Conception of a Starbeast, it also maybe upsets the ALIENS fans who would rather see it as some Native Hive Organism the Space Jockey had attempted to USE just as the W-Y company would do so Thousands of Years latter.

So its NOT really what MOST people would have Concluded the First Time they saw ALIEN (assuming this was the First Movie they had seen).

Back to ALIEN you could conclude one of the Following via the Shared Aesthetic of the Ship, Pilot and Cargo.

1) The Xenomorph was a Engineered Weapon for use by the Space Jockey as Biological Warfare.  The Technology of the Ship was created by the Space Jockey.

2) The Xenomorph was a Organism the Space Jockey had encountered and their Technology was Engineered from this Organism.  They also USED the Eggs as Biological Warfare.

3) The Xenomorph and Space Jockey Technology are Engineered from some other Species/Organism they had encountered.

4) The Space Jockey is merely a Enslaved Being or Created Being that is Tasked with the Purpose to Seed the Xenomorph's across the Galaxy, the Technology is Created by the Xenomorphs themselves.

The Route that RS had decided on (for a WHILE before the Prequels too) was Option 1... the Prequels began to Tease with a Small Part of Option 3 added.

The MAIN thing the Prequels added was a Background Plot for the Engineers, so that we do-not have some ALIEN Species who the Humans would HAVE no means to Communicate with, where you then have to look at WHERE this ALIEN Species (Space Jockey) was going with that WEAPON.

The Creators Plot and other Themes about Creation, Knowledge, Rebellion and Sub-Creation are other Aspects of the Engineers, and the Xenomorph was just a SMALLER Part of their Entire History..... and such a PLOT is something that you could EXPLORE and Expand on to give us a Expanded Franchise around the Engineers....  The Xenomorph being to them purely as Anthrax is to Mankind... a Engineered Weapon... No more... No less...

But such a PLOT is a Distraction from the Xenomorph, something that would Distance away from the MONSTER.  But they FELT this was a way to go off on a Different Tangent and by the time we get Prometheus to STEER AWAY from Alien....

Again Sadly this did-not sit well with some Fans...

Then FOX felt that Fans wanted to get Xenomorphs and well we ENDED UP with Alien Covenant.... say no more on that lol

@BlackAnt

I think in Context to how you look at Retcon, then the Franchise has Continually done that..... O'Bannon and Shusetts idea was RETCON by Hill and Giler, the Combine of the Pyramid and Ship and HR Gigers Concepts had then RETCON that....  ALIENS then came along and did some RETCON.

Only Alien 3 and Alien R have not really CHANGED much.

Each Director, each Person Pulling and Paying for the Strings at the Studio all come in and CHANGE things.

"Back to continuity....but how did David make the Alien if a pack of them kills all the Engineers on LV-223 the movie before Alien Covenant"

This is something thats OPEN for Debate.... via the Ambiguity of Prometheus.   We have done the WHAT had Killed the Engineers to DEATH on here...

What we certainly have is NO indication the Xenomorph had Pre-Existed before Alien Covenant.. NOTHING concrete.  But we also had NOTHING much to suggest it did-not Pre-Exist the LV-223 Outbreak.  If we ignore the Production Team Comments that is.

UNTIL we have Alien Covenant... but then we have the ADF Novel and we have been OVER that over and over and over.

What we do know is the Engineers Experiments have Created Horrors that are SIMILAR to the Xenomorph, they could have Created MANY such Horrors.... we do-not know 100% what is their ORIGIN its where the GOO becomes a case of the Chicken/Egg or something that is used on a Chicken/Egg that is the INCEPTION of the Horrors that Followed.

Exploring that INCEPTION is where they can introduce some of the STUFF that seemed so ALIEN from the First Movie and to bring in a STARBEAST....   And Accept the Xenomorph is just a Genetically Manipulated Experiment which Traces its routes to the INCEPTION of what STARTED the Experiments and Origin of the GOO.

Again you get some Fans who will NOT let go that the Xenomorph is NOT this Great Grand thing that the Franchise should REVOLVE around... i have some Friends who are Adamant that the Mural in Prometheus is a Juvenile Queen Xenomorph and the Black Goo is in essence from the Queen!

They also see the Space Jockey as a Giant Elephantine race who tried to STEEL a Xenomorph Ship and Paid the Price!

Everyone is Entitled to Interpret it how they see FIT... no one is RIGHT or WRONG because Future Movies can always CHANGE stuff so any Idea/Theory becomes NULL/VOID.... or could become to have Solid Basis.

@BigDave .... this quote "I think it caused more problems than it was worth," was said it regard to AVP not Prometheus... read the full quote. Let's not argue about what was not said

@ignorantGuy

Ridley Scott only returned to the world he created in 1979 with Prometheus, the 2012 Alien movie prequel. "I think it caused more problems than it was worth," Weaver added.

What difference does it make now anyway...whether Weaver said it about AVP or not...you know how much money the last film made at the box office....the studios ultimately lost money on it. Those films have to bring in twice what they were made for to break even on the money spent for production and marketing....here is some math for you.

Alien Covenant brought in 240,000,000 million globally at the box office....this could be do to a lot of things but really the point is that is not worth taking a chance to put up another 100 to 150 million on a big budget film only to make a 40 - 60 million profit....they might easily see a 75 million loss because of the marketing.

There is audio of the interview specifically of the Comicon at London...working on finding that for you...Usually reporters can be sued for liable taking what people say out of context so I firmly believe she said what she said. Even more concerning is that she used to F word to describe the other movies in the franchise which does not speak favorably of her demeanor towards the producers and all the studios involved in making all these films. So no matter what you say now about the MacGuffins pulled on Prometheus and Alien Covenant you don't know what is really happening in these films for sure which is why all the other people on here have been discussing it for years trying to figure it out....we do know one thing is for certain...RS was not happy with the studio cutting the budget on Prometheus...this is all well documented.

Prometheus is a good looking film but it also has some plot holes you could push a galaxy through. Say what every you want. It is doubtful any of the producers or current studio that owns the production rights will take a chance on producing another title when there are so many other more profitable franchises without as much monetary risk.

A tv show is most likely the best we can all hope for now....audience attendance will be significantly down for years to come considering the present health concerns with public theaters just compounding the entire matter of possible 100 million dollar plus film at the box office just that much more.