Comments (Page 375)

Big Dave:

I associated the franchise with Ripley since that is the way that it developed. She was the only one left in Alien 3 after the first movie so it is not strange if people get that impression but I think that it has got more to do with the themes. To me the franchise was not even about the Xeno, it was about people that get into situations that they are not prepared to handle and that is why we need characters to care for.

Trying to introduce new things in not bad but it depends on how it is done and how they handle the human characters. This far that have not gotten the characters right or the Engineers.

Prometheus had interesting ideas but failed in how a lot of it was executed and worse how the humans were written. I would gladly have followed the tale of the Engineers if they would have spent more focus and time to get them right and also the humans. The android part is probably not that high up on my list about things that I care about in the franchise. My thing is that if a movie is in the alien universe then automatically you want to have a Xeno connection and if you don’t get that then don’t use the alien verse to tell the story in. However just because it has a Xeno connection (the Deacon for example)  doesn’t mean that we need another movie with Xenos running around, we already have Aliens for that it is just that we need a better Xeno connection and better characters since we need to care about them for the movie to work.

The main problem with AC was that the characters were weak and that too much time was spent on the androids. I don’t watch an alien movie to watch androids talking about Shelley and what ever, I understand that the scene was partially to tell that David had gone mad but it was too slow and the main focus on the androids meant that we were given a story that at least I was not very interested in (a story about a crazy robot). Fassbender was good but the focus in the movie was wrong, that is one way to sum it up.

“so its  a case of starting from scratch again... how do they do this and introduce Characters we can connect with?”

Exactly, this is the main thing but never the less it is the most important thing. Like someone in a podcast said, cool tech is not enough if we do not get characters to care for. They said that in an episode of the Perfect organism podcast and they are absolutely right.

Um it is not impossible to make good prequels to Alien, it is jut difficult.

Iraptus

Yeah but the problem is that we never get to know anything about them so when it turns into shit it is difficult to feel much for them. We got zero information about why they were there, what their dreams were and so on. To me they were just faces in a crowd but that is how most of the characters were. I got to say that the scene was sort of nasty but then it was nothing new since we have seen a variation of that in Psycho. Maybe I am boring but I wish that they would have figured out a more interesting way for them to die. The problem is that we have seen a lot in horror movies so it is difficult to do something new. By the way, the best death scene this far is Lambert and Parker in Alien because we did not see that much of their death so we had to use our imagination. Alien Covenant in its favor has not got any annoying characters (compared to Prometheus) but they are not very well built up.

By the way I had to google who Cole was. That character must have not made any impression on me what so ever but unfortunately that goes for many in AC. There are many characters there that I simply do not remember the names of because they failed to make any impression on me. Compare this to the first three movies where I remember a lot of the names. Unfortunately this is a sign of the failure of Alien Covenant because if they would have persons that made an impression on me then it would have been easier for me to remember their names. Unless they are main characters I tend to forget the names of them in AC, that is just the way that it is.

This reply is probably a bit late but whatever.

I-Moongirl: Yeah it was predictable but I understand how Daniels felt though. That is what saved that scene to me at least. It depends on what kind of perspective that you look at it from. I hope that David will not be featured as much as he was in Alien Covenant because that is one of the problems with that movie, there was no balance.

BD

I think that your answer was meant for Imoongirl but let me reply to it as well because it is interesting.

The problem is that the representation in the prequels this far is "David first and then the rest will come after that", that is basically what they have done and the movies suffer because of that unless you are a big fan of the robot story. Right now there is no balance and the movies become uninteresting in huge parts. How fun is it to have 60% of the time dedicated to an evil android?

Sure they can let Daniels and Tennessee live but they got to make them more interesting. Even when it came to Daniels we did not get to know that much about her.

Hopefully they will let Daniels survive in a way that you describe. It has gone well for David this far so it is time that things do not go his way for once. They killed Shaw so to kill Daniels would be repetitive.

A smaller cast could work if they are well written.

Rehashing Aliens, maybe that but it has not been very well this far in the prequels so if they rehash bits of Aliens well that would not worry me if they do not do it too much.

I would rather see a movie based on I-Moongirl's ideas

No but there is a risk that it gets turned into stone if they are not careful. The reason why is because it has been shown a lot in comics and so on. It did not help that we got the AVP movies, LOL. David is cooked if you ask me, it has just been handled in an underwhelming way.

Xenos work best when they are kept in the shadows. You know that they are around but you do not know where they are, compare this to Aliens when the marines look at their motion trackers but they do not see where they are and all off a sudden they are all surrounded by them, that worked well I think.

1. Probably the facehugger, there is something about the fact that it lays eggs inside you that still is frightening.
2. A Ultramorph, that could be interesting
3. A Ridleymorph ;) it would probably be a Xeno that swears a lot and that chases people with cigars and try to burn people.

There are so many things where you can find inspiration so I do not have any advice about it. Look at unused things, look at creatures on earth, and so on.

After all, I was pleased to talk about old memories dear to me

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Well you know what would be really powerful? Engineers in Engineer power-loaders...

I understand your anger, unfortunately the DS2 has not sold well, so the DS3 has become as we know it, to expand the category of gamers with coop , merging it to a RE6 for online.

For DS4 there is a small but present light on the discussion of EA about the project, the Visceral games is gone, but the rights are still of EA to decipher future projects, surely I think we will not have such a masterpiece as already stated by you ,the processing of the sequel was in a limbo maybe a tomorrow we can hear some news about it.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

DS 3 was kind of crappy- I even pre ordered it. The Unitology Soldiers seemed like rejects from Resident Evil 4. The space scenes were pretty good but the rest felt like a shooter- that is what survival horror franchises seem to become eventually. I doubt we will see a DS4. But those first 2 are works of art imo.

Just know that like the movie, it is a slow burn. When things get tense, you may be hiding a lot and seeing a lot of feet walk around you. Sounds weird, but it is pretty tense.

dk agree as a brother.
the dead space 3 was well done in the script of the game, I find it very fascinating, the damned mistake was turning it into a zombie shooter, combined with the appearance of fanatical unitology soldiers.
I hope so much in a 4th prequel episode or sequel of the saga that can redeem the great sci-fi horror charm.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Ah- Dead Space 1 and 2 are fantastic! 3 maybe not so much.

You will not be disappointed. Frustrated- but not disappointed.

really good.
the last time I tried this like you, it was the days of the saga of DEAD SPACE : P

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Alright Im set. Got the Nostromo Edition. Can't wait!

Like you said, watching is never the same as experiencing it! 

IDK. The PS3 disc I have might be that one- it was a preorder disc I think. There were some additional missions you could play as different characters and the original actors lent voice tracks. I played one mission as Ripley and had my ass handed to me pretty quickly.  

Play it. It is brutal and exhausting. I cannot say it enough. It took me more than a month to beat with work and all. There were times I hesitated playing because I was almost too scared to play. No joke.

Whats the Nostromo Edition? 

I do have a PS3. I should do that yes. I forget it was available on that console and it should be cheap as chips these days. Thanks dk :)

IRaptus Watching is not quite the same in this case. Perhaps you could get a cheap PS3 and the PS3 game used for cheap? I promise a playthrough is worth it. It wore me out psychologically and I would do it again if I had the time.

I did stubbornly play Colonial Marines all the way through to end. I paid top $$ for that friggin thing on pre-order, I was getting my moneys worth!!

Had some good moments, but for the most part was mindless dribble and crappy. You had some random NPC marine tag along with you 90% of the game with a friggin smart-gun....suspense and isolation GONE.

The best part of the game was when you were alone, with no guns, no friendlies and being stalked by nasties 

Yes, I heard about it , I'll listen to your advice to try it on console  ;) 

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Im going to confess. Ive yet to play isolation. My crapheap laptop wont handle it, and ive been slow replacing/updating my PC. 

I did watch my Brother play it all the way through when it first came out.. so Ive seen most of the game, just not had the fully immersed experience with it yet!! 

If you want to experience a proper follow up to Alien, play Alien Isolation. I cannot stress it enough. If you are not a gamer, seek a You Tube playthrough and watch. 

I agree on the inconsistencies of Prometheus, but in the end I loved it, a thriller with an ambitious charm, this makes it pleasant to every vision, while AC is a succession of events that finally begin to savor the first thematic line of the Xenon , these are my opinions, but I agree on the division of the public for those who liked it and for those who do not, this because I believe that in both films we had a decided script, over time things are going to improve and sometimes change course, leaving parts of previous and new screenplay by fusing an extravagant mix.
Fortunately RS is the best in this field and knows how to generate high-quality films, so AC in my opinion over time can become a piece much more important than it is now.
I'll tell you a secret I was uncertain about the sequel Alien 5 review the same formula of Aliens 2 but revisited with aged protagonists would make it all beautiful but repetitive perhaps.
Blomkamp is one of the directors I admire, his science fiction films have strong bonds with the ground, they are never airborne, but I am more pleased to see the origin of the xenon than to see an innovative formula for Alien 5.
Engineers are fascinating tremendous, the mystery behind them makes it a great mix to raise an entire prequel franchise Alien1979.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Isolation indeed. The elephant in the room in many ways.

Here are again coming around to the possibility of a mini series format since theatrical would take way too much time.

Its a tricky one. I think someone needs to take ownership of the franchise, develop some type of 10year plan encompassing all media types, and schedule out a plan for moving the franchise incrementally forward. Sadly there are lots of strings being pulled on the franchise, the end result keeping it chained down.

The problem has been various movies, novels, games, comics etc keep rehashing the same ideas/locations/people and we keep going around in small circles. Name a video game of the franchise that doesn't return to the Derelict on LV426?! Its cool and all, but we're stuck in a loop.

Alien media comes with certain expectations (eggs, faceuhugger, chestburster, hive, isolation/claustrophobia etc). We don't want to change it because it is the core of the experience, but we dont want the same thing either. Its a very fine line keeping all the fans appeased.

Ridley had an idea to move forward. Its a moot point now whether it was the right direction, but at least it was forward-thinking change. Unfortunately his vision and resulted in a bastardisation of whatever his original intentions were, forced into line by second-guessing and lack of firm leadership and direction.

Alien: Isolation (although still stuck in the loop) attempted to move the story forward

It is interesting how an outlook can evolve. I used to be all in with Xeno and still am in some ways, and hated the other direction RS took with Prometheus and David in some but not all ways. David is a fascinating character. I think there should be some balance. We cannot ignore the Xeno origins but the David/Engineer story arc seems more appealing these days. 

thank you dk
very happy much for being here with you

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

V I N E T I C U M  I know it may seem like a strange comparison ,maybe this is too much

LOL! Actually, this general idea has been around here since the build up to Prometheus(not to negate your input by any means) and that subject matter is well documented especially just prior to AC. I think ideas like this are most of the spirit of what keeps this forum going :)

I appreciate your thread. Thank you!

David could become some sort of anti hero in a strange way. It could be very interesting. That dynamic is fine, but it should also connect to Alien- that is what a prequel is supposed to do imo.

 I know it may seem like a strange comparison ,maybe this is too much,but the concept is i think RS wants to portray David as as a Villain that pursues his purpose making it fascinating , but he also wants to make it a sort of Lucifer as you said , so behind the his character is a deeper morality , if Roy Batty was a rebel looking for life for himself and his companions, David on the contrary is looking for life to be generated , looking for virtue

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Interesting. Weyland announced that David was sort of like a son but not quite since David was an android. David does not- so we think- experience emotions as humans, but that announcement at least seemed to cause some dissonance in his brain/mind. 

I am not familiar with Ranes but know that Moses raised the adopted son pretty much as his own bonafied son. Sorry my Catechism is rusty beyond repair.

Now I am wondering who in the Alien franchise would be Moses if we are relating it to Old Testament terms. 

good observation, I think that David has always lived alone fundamentally, since first of all his father called it a creation machine and the appearance of a son was far from having his compassion, a bit like the pharaoh against Moses , was his adopted son, but it was not in any way comparable to his son Ramses, although things worked Moses brought with him a humanity unlike his family and here I like to think that it was David to bring with him his humanity founded on life and creation, in the end the trick is does not want it to hurt

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Well, Milton said that it was better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven. Maybe David feels cast out by Weyland as Lucifer did with God?

Guys I thought I had made a hole in the water.
Thanks for support.
  dk  the fruit of eden in this case is the temptation of free will that is strengthened by the ideology of engineers on the planet, what I mean: i try to not to get too far away from the topic but to think of it engineers are like monks who have refused life of comfort derived from technology and any other function that would lead them to sin, an original form of humanoid life in the primitive state, David is the only one who instead becomes an esthete by gaining their knowledge and not depriving himself of any temptation.
the apple of Eden can also be identified as David's deepened passion for Shaw with the tomb built by him, with emotion and with the anniversary-style sound sitting in his twilight.
the approach and then transcend highlighting the friendship of Walter to Daniels explaining that it is love, noting that on several occasions he always comes to her, it will be a case because she became a captain or there is really a link between the two.

BigDave
it's always nice to hear you.

thanks for everything :D

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Certainly.. they had revised the Engineers to 9-10 feet tall at the time of working on Prometheus...  This obviously changed once again during Production most likely.  But some elements seem to keep in scale with the Planned 9-10ft tall Race.

The Engineer Head a Perfect Example the scale of the Head would be the Scale of a 9-10ft tall Humanoid.

It really is a shame that RS prefers to tackle things more Practical at times, even when its necessary to maybe use some Trickery.  The Lord of the Rings, The Hobit and even Game of Throwns have shown you can pull off making actors appear taller or smaller compared to their counterparts.

And so pulling of a 8-9ft Engineer/Space Jockey would not have been to hard...

If I was to mention the R rated movie Pulp Fiction, would Disney automatically spring to mind? For most people, I don’t think there would be any apparent connection. The point is that Pulp Fiction was produced by Miramax, after Miramax was taken over by Disney. In fact, quite a number of R rated movies, some very successful ones at that, were made by Miramax under Disney. Disney eventually sold off Miramax, but Miramax became The Weinstein Company.  Essentially what I am getting at, is that I think Fox movies will fill the void that Miramax left, and that Disney will have control of making R rated movies but not under the name Disney.

  Another point here is that given the timing of events surrounding the take over of Fox Movies by Disney, I think there is going to be some time before some of the dust settles on a lot of issues we have seen in the media. As for how all of this will impact on the Alien franchise for definite is anyone’s guess at present, but I do feel hopeful that any future Alien movies will not automatically be watered down from an R rating. Given the gap in the market that has been created by Miramax/Weinstein Company, I think Disney saw this unfolding and decided to act by acquiring Fox Movies.  Just thought I’d add my two cents.