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Thanks for your reply.
Like you I am interested in Paglen's draft particularly because John does not credit it which indicates he is not building on that version and does not require accreditation, though Paglen is in the film credits.
Just to clarify when we began discussing this two years ago you will recall I was very pleased that the combination of the Martian and John Logan gave me hope that the follow up would be much more character focused and out of character would come answers rather than the more impressionistic symbolic vibe of recent Green and Paglen movies.
I think the beats (two creatures/two Davids) and the philosophical point that the Engineers creationism involved mechanical aspects are all from your source period there is a direct thread.
What I think has been lost is the allegorical elements like (Shaw as Sin) and the emblematic ones (the significance of the naming of the film) and the riffing of Matrix etc etc that you often referred to and of course any sense of the mankinds experiences with the Engineers.
What I think this draft shows is a desire to make a straight forward more generic science fiction movie (the solar sails and protective force field) based around David and David, as is clear from the script, as the one who takes several pathogen evolved elements from the planet (eggs, parasitical insect life) and infect Shaw who was face hugged.
What then clearly happened from Nov 2015 onwards is the script evolved Guy Pierce and Noomi were invited down to Sydney and extensions were included artists like Matt and Dane added sub text and all of those additions were about making more connections with Prometheus whereas someone else has commented on the forum this script comes across as primarily an Alien origins movie ignoring Prometheus other than David brought the Pathogen and Elizabeth with him.
I would have preferred this version I think the final act is more elegant and focused and whilst some elements of the dialogue are better there are some losses. I think this would have played better to the general audience, entertaining in the way the Martian was but not to fan boys who would feel John is not respectful to the franchises past. I would defend this point because as you often remark the franchise as a whole is a mess with people getting bent out of shape by Morphing verses Queens, A verses A's, issues of continuity over sizes of Juggernauts and Jockeys and the basic premise that half the fan base is not interested in prequels at all and want the guy with denture issues to remain a mystery.
@Kethol
This is what I said in my first post about where John Logan's script sits in the continuity.
"Aaron absolutely, this is post Paglen/Green and is the beginning of the Alien Prefix period which began with Paradise Lost and morphed into Covenant".
What could be clearer. Kethol you come across like the patronising school teacher who knows best about everything when in fact you lose the philosophical and over arching points of whats being communicated. Your theory about the four different pathogens is over complicated nonsense and your trying to project your cleverness into the narrative because in the real world you know something about the real science of pathogens.
I am very happy to ignore your posts and please do the same to mine. I come here for relaxation and know the people I can banter with without them getting all self righteous and precious.
All the best to you and enjoy your time here I am sure someone finds you interesting.
@I Moon Girl, Nice to see your speculation. I'm interested in this kind of stuff. The corona (Sun's outer atmosphere) is extremely hot (millions of degrees) but is also wildly tenuous. It's as sparse as sparse can be. Any nuclear interactions taking place in the corona are orders of magnitude less productive than those from the other sources I mention, even in the case of a coronal mass ejection, the strongest type of solar flares we encounter on Earth. A CME involves spurting out billions of tonnes of matter in the form of kinetic energy. However, regular fusion at the Sun's core entails the complete annihilation of millions of tons of matter every second, converted to pure energy.
I do accept that we are dealing with a sci-if movie here, and they may have instruments that work in mysterious and wonderful ways.
As you say, neutrino bursts from the Sun have not been detected – they are very hard to detect – and would cause no damage to a spaceship for related reasons. You would need to be within 1AU of a supernova in order to be fried by neutrino flux, in which case you would have plenty of other things to worry about, like certain destruction from the explosion! This being the case, the damage to the Covenant was most definitely caused by a plasma shockwave.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'gravitational interference', and what bearing that would have on matters.
The Covenant wouldn't need to avoid a supernova for the same reason you don't need to avoid a meteorite when crossing the road: the chances of it happening are vanishingly small.
With reference to the Covenant's ability to predict the flare, Walter said that it was a random local event that cannot be predicted. I do accept that David may have gained access to advanced detector and hacking technology beyond the means of humans. But at the same time I have to square this with David's apparent surprise at learning of the mission's purpose.
Living near a star that David just happens to know will conveniently go pop; having the means to detect and hack a remote craft; going through an elaborate charade to feign ignorance of the colonists. I tend to go with Occam's Razor: all other things being equal, the simplest explanation tends to be the correct one.
joylitt in that context he is probably referring to humans.
Lawrence of Arabia Is it reasonable to believe the writers would avoid the obvious course of events as set by Covenant? If they will continue on that storyline probably only the members of this forum and few others will go to see the movie.
The fact that David created the Protomorph does not necessarily means that he will create the xenomorph we see in Alien. My idea was that in Covenant we were shown the xenomorph is indeed created by biological and genetic engineering and meant as a weapon. However its own reproductive cycle does seem very ancient and by its biomechanical look the xenomorph was created within a civilization that possess biomechanical technology.
How do you think David may come to the xenomorph with only 2 facehuggers he brought on board the Covenant? It seems he needs more than cross breeding to get past the Protomorph design. Especially now when he doesn't have any pathogen.
I don't believe Ridley Scott would go further into David as the creator of the xenomorph only to justify his experiments from Covenant. I know I would like Covenant even more if not David is the father of the xenomorph. Let's wait for the narrative to be completed to see if it will fall apart or not.
For me it would be a lame idea to find out that David is the Space Jockey. If it will be so the whole alien universe and the franchise will fall apart.
auximenes that's what I recall too. That's why everybody prefers to believe the eggs were cargo sealed by the blue mist after loading. But at the same time the blue mist may be the result of the eggs themselves, as a self preservation method.
daliens yes, I get that. But what about the parts I highlighted . David says the engineers just wanted to create a good machine. What does he mean by that.
I like that the modular computing device is just a Rubik's cube spray painted silver. XD
Regarding the blue mist in/under the Derelict which covered the eggs, I recall reading that they were using lasers next door to the studio they were working on Alien and the Alien team thought they looked cool so they borrowed one for their movie. I don't think there was any plan for that mist originally as far as I know.
That poster is rad!
I like how minimal it is, very ALIEN.
It seems David sees himself as a human, he even signs the drawings as David Weyland. And he thinks humans only created the idea of soul, being actually soulless.
Why?
20th Fox is still contemplative about the future film(s).
Jonesy Sometimes that is exactly what art in general is- you may not like it at first, but it challenges one's sensibilities and provokes thought. Then it can be appreciated hopefully. I liked A3 and AR as well.
If he is referring to the xenomorph, then David is admitting he was not the first to try to create this "machine". Still, there is a lot of contradiction in what he says. I don't think the engineers would have adored David on the sole basis of being "soulless", because his free will would have made him unpredictable to them. That's not mi idea of a "good machine". On the other hand, the xenomorph is also unpredictable and dangerous and as such not a good machine.
IRaptus That's the spirit! Interesting cover.
I never would have guessed that something like we just saw in this video would have been used in the movie for the Xenomorph.
Thanks for the vid!
On the DVD and Blu-ray versions. The 4K ultimate pack has that new cover on it. I don't have a 4K monitor yet :(
IRaptus So in Australia you do get the original poster.
Alien3 is one of the most depressing movie experience I ever had. Back then when I watched Alien3 the first time I didn't know the storyline at all. I just anticipated it so much after ALIENS, wanting to know how Ripley, Newt and Hicks going to be. I didn't have a chance to watch it in the theater back then until it showed on local TV in mid-90s. I was so excited and I bought a brand new VHS to tape it. What I remembered most then, was my anticipation completely shattered. I was angry, felt cheated and depressed. They killed off Newt and Hicks in the first 5 minutes and I was not prepared for it AT ALL. From that moment I've learned how brutal life could be. It was a thought provoking film, it changed my life.
This poster should be re posted when AA is confirmed and the hype starts.
I cannot think of Jonesy without being reminded of Hobbes. Here is his song and much relates to Jonesy as a feline:
A Tiger is Fierce, a Tiger is Loyal,
A Tiger is always a friend to a boy.
A Tiger is Brave, a Tiger is Noble,
A Tiger is never reclusive or coy.
If you meet a Tiger, prepare to be awestruck,
For Tigers are wonderful, peachy and keen,
Their Teeth are as sharp as an icicle hanging,
Their Claws stay in use, so they're constantly clean.
A Tiger is Captain of all he can see;
So bow to the Tiger if you would be free.
I especially love this line
"Jonesy, the best cat in the universe
You make us proud, so proud that our chests burst"
@ hox
Since the end of the eighties and in response to a reported increase in the total neutrino flux in the Homestake experiment in coincidence with solar flares, solar neutrino detectors have searched for solar flare signals. So far, neutrino bursts have not been detected. Still, scientists are trying to figure out ways to read neutrino release for solar flare signals. This is as of 2015.
This leads me to explain that neutrinos from solar flares are produced through the interactions of accelerated protons/ions with the chromosphere and the subsequent decays of the produced charged pions.
In addition to producing neutrinos, solar flares emit radiation across the entire electromagnetic spectrum.
All of this is written directly from astrophysicists associated with Cornell University.
How powerful those neutrino's are, I am not sure. Neutrino's pass through us everyday and everyone is fine. The crew was apparently fine on the Covenant as well after the "neutrino burst" as well. I think the damage to the Covenant came with the other radiation across the entire electromagnetic spectrum. Solar flares are known to cause damage to equipment in space now.
Plus, this is all information from our own sun. Solar flares can be many, many, many, many, etc., etc. times worse with other stars. I think it would be safe to assume that there would also be more neutrino's released as well.
Oh, I mentioned in the first paragraph in this post that scientists are trying to find ways of predicting solar flares through measuring neutrino release from our Sun. As of now, I don't know of anyone who has accomplished this. This would be very amazing, since people can't predict solar flares as of today. The best we can do currently is predict a solar flare at the most of 2 days or so. I don't know how far we could predict solar flares from neutrino detectors either. So, maybe it isn't very long, but neutrinos do travel at almost exactly the speed of light.
Now, if we remember how technologically advance the people in the Alien universe timeline are and how much they use the space outside of our solar system, I think we could assume that they can predict solar flares through neutrino detection. So, if someone detects a neutrino burst (an abnormally high release of neutrino's from a specific place), than they could predict a solar flare. Sadly for the Covenant crew, there was a lot of gravitational interference. This could possibly be from nearby star clusters that they could have been flying through to possibly avoid supernova explosions.
Plus, if David wouldn't have hacked the Covenant research data (this is my theory, not fact), than the Covenant team would have known that a nearby star was in it's active phase, which would mean a high chance of solar flares which could damage the ship if it wasn't prepared for solar flares. In the Covenant's case, it wasn't and that is stated in the movie or novel or maybe both. I can't remember.
Love the poster. It gives me the vibe that Awakening should go to a horror Sci-fi direction.
your review links have been added to the OP :)
Great screen grabs. Thanks.
I always thought the little objects escaping from the Engineers looked like swarms of bees or insects. I remember one of the commentaries on the DVD calls them gnats.
So is that what I see swarming all around the Engineers after David drops the black fluid jars on them?
Nicely done! I also like how the lettering looks like it is "evolving" like it does in the movies' openings. Upvoted.
It's just a teaser poster that I felt like doing since I'm always designing stuff. I saw it as a challenge to make something that would be as simple yet effective as possible because I feel like the one thing that would make even the most critical Alien fan want to see Awakening is the promise of a resolution. After all, people have been itching to see the Space Jockey since Prometheus, and the idea of the corpse sitting in that chair, alone in the dark, for who knows how long always struck a chord with me since I first saw the original film. Very haunting in its simplicity and mystery. The "less is more" approach would work for Awakening's art campaign in much the same way as Covenant's 'Run' and 'Hide' posters did, but considering how polarizing Covenant turned out to be, whoever designs the official stuff probably needs to steer away from the xenomorphs as a focal point. I figured you guys would enjoy it since not a lot of people have thought that far ahead fan poster-wise. :)
Care to elaborate? There doesn't seem to be much there there.
The A Box shirt is black with a red face hugger. This shirt came from a weird site my better half found by chance and gave to me.
nice! picking mine up this arvo. Is that the A box shirt?
No problem guys.
@Ali81 - Sorry, the copy I got was from the AVP link too. I'm sure it will get posted elsewhere soon. Great read.
Tidy solution, I like it. David would make a good android-wizard lol :)
I think that Alien 3 is a great movie although it is tough to get motivated to watch since it is utterly depressing. Resurrection was very enjoyable and had some of the most disturbing scenes of the series at that point- the Ripley failed experiments room and Newborn and its death come to mind.
David turns out to be an android Wizard...and he just "did it". Solved.
I believe dk was behind all this!
