Comments (Page 678)

@Michelle Johnston - I do agree with Ridley's original assessment the beast is cooked other than as a texture which deals with far more interesting themes like what is the source of this thing.

Absolutely. He originally wanted to explore the Engineers more, which I would have been ecstatic for, but the gung-ho fanboys who have too much invested in Cameron's Aliens, wanted action and gore, and in order to get Covenant made, RS had to make some compromises to please everyone. And guess what: they STILL aren't happy.

I personally loved Prometheus BECAUSE is wasn't an Alien gore-fest. I loved the exposition and character building, and having now seen the Workprint version, I love it even more.

I also love Covenant. For me, it was a nice bridging of the gap between the Alien horror, and the Prometheus sci-fi thriller. I would have liked a bit more exposition on the Engineers themselves, on what David learned of their lives and ways, on their technology, and why David felt the need in his twisted mind to cleanse Planet 4 of them.

I also think it's a nice touch to have some semblance of companionship between Walter and Daniels. As she states in the extended funeral scene, they're both alone on a ship of couples, and given that the Alien universe is full of AIs that tend to have a screw loose, with the exception of Bishop, Walter is really the only one who really wants to understand humanity and appreciates it for what it is.

I think it's likely we will see two movies before the gap is bridged to Alien (1979), so there's plenty of ground to cover, not to mention it makes sense for us to see more Engineers. It was an Engineer they found on LV-426, so it'll be interesting to see how they go from David on the Covenant, to the Engineers rushing back to somewhere, only to get stranded on LV-426?

Purely for the sake of Canon, whilst I think and hope Walter will make a reappearance, it is unlikely he will survive the next two films. He is not in Alien, so, unless there is some after thought mention somewhere of his body being found, he is likely to be expired some time before 2122... Unless... He manages to get to Origae 6, and lives out his days with whatever colony is left? If there is indeed a colony after David...

Another possibility that needs to be assessed is that the growing pessimism of these prequels are turning off a big part of the audience. These days even the superhero movies are moving away from darker stories and styles to more lighthearted and optimistic ones.

It's a bit sad that the lab will be taken apart, isn't it? Bag End is still in place, I believe? :)

ADAMPD - His significance could be something more than his station within Engineer society. Perhaps he he will be discovered to be the sole survivor of David's assault whom will appear in later installments to the franchise? It is exceptionally fun to speculate! :)

No, that was not deliberate. I don't know why it is black. 

SVANYA - This was incredibly fantastic! I very much enjoy Mr. Savage's approach to leading us about David's lab; his somewhat whimsical nature brought levity to an otherwise macabre experience. Thank you so very much for taking the time to share this with us! :)

I said this only in my last post but I am not a genre fan. I am 62 years old and like any of my friends who saw A L I E N first time round we were absolutely fascinated by Ridley offering a creation myth for the creature. 

Inevitably by offering a tangental approach and one which was not bullet proof (Prometheus is flawed) he had Weaver and Blomkamp banging on the door. He has tried to rationalise those competing issues and mis heard the critiques of Prom and the result is Covenant.

Its to late to carry on with the broad enquiry having set up the backing into and A. I. as the driver of the narrative. The danger with Awakening is he tries another compromise movie (modest small, "big philosophical" issues and if they want Aliens I will give them ....ing Aliens).

If the presenter of this video is right there is a global audience but smallish compared to Star Wars who want to follow the three precepts he outlines. He may be right but I am sure I can speak for my generation in saying we would not be the slightest bit interested in a genre monster movie. What made the first three films interesting to me was Ripley became the Alien of the narrative and the creature by the time of A 3 Assembly cut was merely texture.

I do agree with Ridley's original assessment the beast is cooked other than as a texture which deals with far more interesting themes like what is the source of this thing.

Put simply people coming to this party have widely different views but given you need to follow the money and that comes from the crucial North American audience and growing Asian audience of 16 to 25 year olds thats who the films should be made for.

Originally Ridley wanted to make two epic broad church prequels to his original film using the Space Jockey as the door opener to the story and he should have stuck to that.    

Interesting idea that the mechanical looking juggernaut is transformed into something more organic over time, perhaps having to do with the black goo (and perhaps because of the atmosphere of the planet and vegetation creeping into she ship over time)?

Yes, perhaps it’s time for a female synthetic in Alien: Awakening, BigDave? :) (We have Call in Alien: Resurrection, of course) Nice going through of the aesthetics and ideas of Giger and Scott.

If we take a closer look at Giger’s Mural, the frame around the xenomorph life cycle is a woman bending over at the hips. The left frame is a leg and the right frame is an arm. The woman's face (lower part - jaw and mouth) can be seen in the upper right corner. In the middle is the womb giving birth to the xenomorph egg (with a facehugger inside). But, there is also a sperm swimming towards the womb (merged with the all seeing eye of God)?

This mural gives an eerie sense of resemblance with the fate of Shaw, doesn’t it? The lower part of her face missing in David’s painting, but it’s here in the mural . . .

“The all-seeing Eye” and the Freemasons is perhaps a topic of its own? :)

Yes. New directors could carry on the franchise. I even liked AR. RS started it and set the tone and foundation. I also agree with the video that Alien required no prequel. Solid assessment imo.

Nice. Going to feature this post awhile.

Yet he wants to infect her with the black goo which transforms every one into an aggressive monster taking away that very kindness. How does this make sense?

@red0guy@gmail.com He loved her because she was kind to him. He mentions it in here a couple times: Alien: Covenant | Prologue: The Crossing

Great post, i'll feature this awhile so it doesn't get buried. x

BigDave

I have said only that humans are less of a cancer to the planet than a big meteor like that from 65 million years ago or dropping Black Goo into the atmosphere. Why do you bring Trump into discussion, I really don't like that guy and if could have voted in the US I would have for Jill Stein.

What I true is as 21st century's Humanity's sins are nihilism and complacency in his impotence, being obsessed by the Freudian Death Drive. 

joylitt

Maybe the Xenomorph is just as highly intelligent as David, maybe he reads Byron and Shelley in his spare time? You could almost see a volume or two in their hive.

I sincerely don't know if really have an idea what a conscious AI would want. If he would feel lonely maybe they would seek out first someone for company no? Like in the Original Ghost in the Shell movie where the resolution is that the cyborg Major melds her consciousness with the Puppet master AI, becoming their equivalent of a god, being omnipresent, omniscient and omnipowerful on the Internet.   

Returning to David, if him loved Shaw why "perfect" her? What did he love about her? Her dreams (which he seemed to obsess) or her kindness (I'm pretty sure that would remained also present after being perfected)? This is a very anti-feminist fantasy, the male trying to mold the woman into his desires. 

To wrap it up, it is our modern nihilistic culture which is so obsessed with death, accepting as something almost to be wanted. 

Joravar is a spammer. Reported.

K-Theory OT, but your text appears black against a dark gray background on my end. Is that deliberate?

A monarchy where that guy in the white is the king/dictator? 

I absolutely hate how the Engineers are portrayed. The artists behind this seriously have some planning problems.

If their society is AT LEAST tens of thousands of years old, they should have smart buildings, climate changing technology, very advanced energy technology, etc. Prometheus was excellent in setting the groundwork. Covenant ruined it. Seriously, you were afraid of the Giger estate suing you? Why would they even do that?

If the Engineers did not even discover binary computing and we already are in the developmental process of quantum computing, I don't even know how they developed a form of "radical AI based on evolutionary computing." 

And including women into their society was a huge mistake. Having men only (or better yet, having no gender) was a very powerful symbol to the whole “space gardener” theme.

Anyways EVERY single movie or thing that they put out causes more and more and more confusion. 

@AdamPD

That is a really good observation that there are no children or babies present! Perhaps Engineers have an accelerated growth rate and do not waste as much time in the vulnerability of infancy childhood as humans do.

Maybe the brief maturation process is tended to at home or in a hospital, much like the birth process.

Good topic, I Moon Girl !

Well, hindsight is 20/20 and we'd all like to claim to be Daniels, but I definitely, 100% would have gone Oram's route.

For one thing, to me it would have actually seemed safer than having everyone go back into hypersleep for seven more years, especially with the suddenly apparent risk of stellar flares and spontaneously combusting hypersleep pods.

For another thing, I'm very prone to Oram's same sort of faith-based mystical thinking, and whenever something unexpected happens I tend to think there's a deeper meaning behind it.

I definitely would have interpreted the sudden appearance of the planet as a sort of meant-to-be gift from God.

BigDave hahaha at least you might be able to kill a few Xeno's 

If I was an Engineer I'd be this guy

"The guy in white almost looks to be wearing jeans and sneakers from what I can see."

Surely not with a Ridley Scott Movie.... never such a Oversight LOL

Looking at the last image some with no hats etc look Female and there are a few with hats etc that are definitely Male... so i redact my Covered Head = Female comment lol

Ha ha IRaptus maybe it is me...

I do have a Engineer Nose to a Degree... but if i was a Engineer i would be like the one on the right here.

Hmm good point, might be BigDave, he seems to know an awful lot...*suspicious look* :P

i think it is their wise scholar, Grand Maester BigDave XD

Yea there's definitely females in the crowd, you can hear them screaming during the bombardment scene. Interesting perhaps that there's no children/babies present.

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Upper right corner appears to show females. Nice pic!

They look like old fashioned wooden sandals to me, with white socks.

The guy in white almost looks to be wearing jeans and sneakers from what I can see.

I will reply to some interesting comments on here tomorrow.

But indeed AdamPD this is a possibility.

I would say someone in a leadership position somehow- perhaps religious/spiritual. I also wonder if he was someone who knew of "forbidden" knowledge but kept it from the masses like in the book The Keeper. Great post and pics- it got the imagination going!

I had to squint a little bit, but the engineer in white also seems older than the rest, could just be my eyes though, lol.

Something to note too is some are wearing like caps, some look more like say baseball cap part to them and others do not.

Looking at those with their heads covered they appear to be more youthful, they are maybe the Teenagers of Engineer Society or maybe the head-wear is worn by the Females?

A Number of Cultures and Religions have it that its required for Females to have their Hair Covered, maybe this could be a connection?

Also regarding the White Color it could also showcase someone who has been blessed, but this can fit with chosen and so a higher rank or indeed also purity.

I would say he is of a greater importance than the others, maybe some kind of Religious Figure for sure, the White Robe would donate that he was a higher rank of the clergy of what ever kind of Religion/Culture they have the other purpose for White could be to showcase Purity

This could be as far as Genetically Pure? who knows.

The one thing I still cannot fathom is why this obsession with depicting the AI as an evil/unhinged entity. What evidence do we have that a sentient AI will want to destroy human race and other forms of life. I would imagine an AI would aspire to be the epitome of rationality and its ultimate goal would be to acquire the maximum volume of knowledge that is possible. Why destroy the source of that knowledge. Also, if I am lonely or misunderstood, wouldn't make more sense to invest my energy in trying to create other entities as intelligent and advanced as myself?

(You can right click each image and open in a new tab for the full sized one)

I think they are in a tricky situation...

They surely cant just drop the whole Covenant Plot, even if they drop the whole Plot but give it the Dr Shaw treatment.

So we end up Post the Colony setting up on Origae-6 to discover the horrors of Davids experiments but no sign of David....  and its a incoming Human/Company ship that makes this discovery.... this for me is a bit too much a Aliens all again... if they go this kind of route, where another Mission comes to Origae-6 find the Colony Set partially up, the Ship Crashed or what ever and then discover a Xeno Hive and Eggs and then a Bloody Queen...  and no David...

Then this would be a complete Aliens reboot and joke... and more so if on this incoming Ship is a Ripley connection... but who knows maybe FOX could Cave in and do this kind of a Plot... to give in to the FANBOYS as it appeared to work for why they changed the plans for Prometheus 2 to Alien Covenant.

I do however think if they are considering now ONE movie, which we dont know but i think if it was TWO Movies as a TWO part Prequel to Alien, they could have explored a bit of David on the Covenant and the Covenant Colony being set up and then set up the next movie to explore a aftermath after David uses them for Xenomorph Hosts etc.

If they now have concerns over the Franchise, then maybe they would have to condense this to a ONE Movie connection and so indeed the Covenant Voyage and what goes on between 2105 and 2112 when the Covenant should arrive at Origae-6, may indeed just be the same as the Crossing Prologue and left over Aftermath clues of what happened from when David and Shaw arrived on Planet 4 to when the Covenant crew arrived.

So yes maybe they could go for a AFTERMATH kind of Flick again, i just hope they totally dont choose to tone down the path that Prometheus and Alien Covenant had left

I hope FOX has faith in RS original idea and vision and not keep wondering a WHAT IF WE DID ALIEN 5

And man....those poor Engineers, they have liquid like creatures bursting from their chests and heads.

Makes me wonder what that planet was for

I remember reading something today that David said the race believed in sacrifice, is it possible an individual was chosen by this race on Paradise, to sacrifice themselves on another planet to seed it?

Is the engineer we see in White, the sacrificial choice perhaps?

But why have so many ships on one planet, not to mention the dock-o-naught thing

Loving how some of the most viewed and respected Youtubers, no names mentioned but most of the Bigger Ones...

Are all speculating that David is going to create a Xenomorph Queen.... i think anyone expecting anything like the Xenomorph Queen will be disappointed ;)

I think RS will not go the Queen route not Cameron's Queen..

In effect i think David needs a Female for their Re-productive Capabilities alone.    Imagine if for example you David could use the Black Goo to infect in small quantity Dr Shaw or Daniels Egg CELLS and we can wonder would this evolve them into a Face Hugger type Organism, the Trilobite was however the Trilobite could be via infected Human Sperm.

Even if this is the case, David did have access to Engineer Body's and some of the stuff in his workshop does look like it would require more fresh or even alive Engineers rather than the Charred Corpses outside.

So David could maybe have Engineer Sperm and Egg Cells. 

Regardless my point is that David would maybe be interested in Re-creating the Trilobite, and in Alien Covenant he has access to Females and Males.

Because if we say look at David having access to a Female, and a Male if indeed infected Sperm is needed... then David could impregnate a Female, then remove the Trilobite/Face Hugger type Organism, then repair the Female and Repeat.

I think a interesting thing is that David only has TWO Face Huggers, and so the Question is how does David procreate more than TWO Xenomorphs, does he go the Egg Morph route?  Or do they go for a Queen and does one of those Face Huggers lead to a Queen, or does a Egg Morph lead to a Queen?

Regardless i just dont think RS will go this route to give us a very Xenomorph related Queen, thats not to far off Camerons. But i guess we have to wait and see.

And so then we have to wonder how much Genetic knowledge does David have and what Tools are there on the Covenant in order for him to maybe use the DNA of those Face Huggers to Create more, or infect a Females Egg Cells etc?

The other option would be Black Goo, surely David would want to have more of this stuff to experiment because this stuff is the Key to Creation,  but then this would mean David going back to get some Urns..

However they could just as easy show us David managed to sneak one of the Glass Vials or a Few while he was also getting the Face Hugger Embryos.

joylitt and BigDave- you are likely right. It just seems that especially considering costs, it would have made sense to shoot something since everything was set up and the film crew was already there.