Forum Topic
sukkal
MemberOvomorphMay-19-2012 2:39 PMHello again Engineer orthography aficionados.
If you are new to the forum or just new to paying attention to the fact that there is alien writing in Prometheus, I suggest that you go read [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2616]this[/url], and [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/3683]this[/url], and [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/3905#44570]this[/url], before reading and engaging below. At those links you will find nifty pictures and analysis and commentary that is the backdrop for my findings below.
There are no spoilers in this topic of which I am aware if you have seen an paid attention to the main trailer. This discussion is ultimately about the design and production process for the film.
Two nights ago reading this book while falling asleep:
[img]http://masempul.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/R-T-P.jpg[/img]
I stumbled across "the missing link" for the human history source material that seems to have most heavily influenced/inspired the Prometheus art department [i]et al[/i] in coming up with the Engineers’ standard writing. (If you'll read the links above first you'll understand what I mean by "standard writing.")
I am now 98% confident that whomever was tasked with coming up with the writing for the film's production based it on a hybrid of the as-yet-undecyphered [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypro-Minoan_syllabary]Cypro-Minoan Syllabary[/url] and the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugaritic_alphabet]Ugaritic Alphabet[/url] (or more technically perhaps "abjad"). The Cypro-Minoan script is likely a variant of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A]Linear A[/url], but it is more obscure and quite distinctive. This is the "base" that gives the Engineers' writing its distinctive flavor. When I saw the black and white illustration below, I had a "Eureka" moment. The main glyph that gives it way is the "football goal". I have never seen this particular configuration elsewhere.
As you will see if you read the articles provided via the links above, a few examples of Cypro-Minoan glyphs have even been found in Ugarit. Ugaritic is a alphabet/abjad that evolved out of Sumerian cuneiform via Akkadian. It makes perfect sense to me that whoever the researcher/designer was who stumbled across Cypro-Minoan added in and intermittently emphasized the distinctive wedges that are native to Sumer.
I still believe that the glyph pallet as used in the film is done so only for "effect." I will be very surprised (though delighted) if it actually maps to a spoken Engineer language in the film. We shall see.
I just wanted to share this "find" and my opinion with the rest of the community.
[url=http://masempul.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Cypro-Minoan-Ugaritic.jpg][img]http://masempul.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Cypro-Minoan-Ugaritic.jpg[/img][/url]
11 Replies
FREEZE!
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphMay-19-2012 3:13 PMNice find and thread! Thanks for pisting this, can't wait to read the source material!
[url=http://www.madmax4-movie.com/]Visit the Mad Max: Fury Road Forums today![/url]
sukkal
MemberOvomorphMay-19-2012 3:21 PM@Freeze —
I wasn't aware that I had *PISTED it, but I'll take that as a compliment and hope you enjoy the show. ;•)
PS: What is pisting? [ Sorry. Joke. I know a typi when I see one. :•) ]
abordoli
MemberOvomorphMay-19-2012 3:25 PM[img]http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9738/20120208nebuchadnezzar2.jpg[/img]
Sumerian Tablet Maker (Possibly the first "Printing Press" of all time)
[img]http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6922/sumarianscroll2.jpg[/img]
This was made by rollers similar to the one above. Notice how many planets were observed to be in our solar system (including the planet between Earth and Mars that no longer exists and is now an asteroid belt). Who gave them this information? Hmmmmm......
Find some possible answers [url=http://www.lloydpye.com/eykiw.htm]HERE[/url].
Mekja-Tek
MemberOvomorphMay-19-2012 4:19 PMI remember when subjects like this was common as a child, but since the internet age (mid 90's) life has been filled with utter fodder(to put it nice).
I think this is why Prometheus is resonating a favorable chord in my psyche. Not just another wink at the audience sci-fi movie.
David 1
MemberOvomorphMay-19-2012 4:26 PMvery good thread Sukkal, congrats buddy.
I watched that "what you think you know is wrong" video at youtube, all about this. Very interesting.
Food for thought.
p.s.: it could also be that the SJs are writting on Master Writer v.2
or Dramatica Pro 4.0
or Final Draft 8
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
sukkal
MemberOvomorphMay-19-2012 5:08 PMThanks all who have contributed above. I forgot to include[url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/5110] this background[/url] in the original posting. It's also broadly on topic for this.
As for the fictional context of the film, there seems to be a specific focus in the the Prometheus' crew's training on Sumerian and at least some emphasis on the language. Notice in[url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/gallery/view/img/43] this shot[/url] that the data cube is running or displaying some kind of "Language Frequency" analysis. Lower left from viewer's perspective.
The glyphs in that chart are most certainly cuneiform. For a thorough accounting of the official glyphs in common study by modern Sumerologists today, see [url=http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U12000.pdf]this PDF[/url]. Note that the glyphs as catalogued in modern dictionaries do not look precisely like the wedged forms that are pressed into the actual ancient clay tablets. This is intentional. The modern notation exaggerates the 'head' of the wedge so as to be completely clear about how the impressions are made and how each relates to others in the glyph as a whole.
I assume that dealing with ACTUAL cuneiform would have been too much work for the art department and set builder, so they went with something that looked "ancient, exotic, and 'close enough'' ;•)
NoXWord
MemberOvomorphMay-19-2012 5:17 PM@abordoli
please excuse my ignorance on the subject, but who says that the dots around the big star necessarily have to depict the planets orbiting the sun (including those not accessible to the naked eye and the one that might have originated the asteroid belt?). Can't it be that they simply represent the brightest objects in the sky, therefore a few planets and a few stars whose apparent magnitude is comparable?
PS didn't mean to hijack the topi, kudos to sukkal for yet another interesting topic on linguistics.
Ridley Scott will eventually tell us how the Queen was born.
Right now we have the Deacon; coming soon the Mercury, the May and the Taylor.
sukkal
MemberOvomorphMay-19-2012 6:28 PM@CMW (aka Noxy)
< re: hijack >
I think that's supposed to be [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_cataclysm]Nibiru[/url]-related somehow.
If you want to believe, go [url=http://www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens]HERE[/url]. It's all on Netflix Watch Now.
If you want to see it debunked, go [url=http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/]HERE[/url].
< /re: hijack >
David 1
MemberOvomorphMay-19-2012 6:43 PMTrue, ancient civilizations had a word for everything and depicted as such. I do believe some still do.
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]
BigDave
MemberDeaconMay-19-2012 10:09 PMYes very interesting....
One thing that seems very interesting is that the Engineers Written Language as seen on the Statue Head and on the Walls/Plaques. And in the Derelict....
Are different to that of the Urns....
Also we do not yet know the connection of the flying Saucer to the Engineers, and if indeed the movie will explain any link.... i hear it does not.
So maybe that leaves us to assume that who ever those Urns belonged to may not be the Engineers/Space Jockeys thus maybe they also Stole something from others....
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
sukkal
MemberOvomorphMay-20-2012 1:26 AM@BigDave
In my opinion, the urns (if not "alien" to the Engineers originally) are at a minimum from a subset (possibly highly specialized faction) of their culture. Otherwise, It doesn't make sense for that writing style to be so different.
The writing on the urns is evocative of Chinese oracle bone script, before the characters were formalized into the modern system of radicals, etc.
[url=http://masempul.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/OracleBoneScript.jpg][img]http://masempul.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/OracleBoneScript.jpg[/img][/url]
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