The Space Jockey

There are Inconsistencies in the Aesthetic of the Pilot and the Ship from ALIEN to Prometheus.

something could have Infected the Ship/Pilot so they would WARP/MUTATE and GROW or so it seemed, they could give that as a Reason.  They seemed to KEEP changing HOW it would Connect to ALIEN.

Ridley Scott in 2012 had said that the Space Jockey was a Engineer, he had became Infected with his CARGO, as something had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold and knowing he was Infected he had Attempted to Quarantine the Cargo on LV-426 but was Chest Busted as he was making the Landing.  This had Happened within a Few Hundred Years of the Outbreak on LV-223.

And so this implied that the Engineer had Gone into Cryo-Sleep as the Outbreak had Occurred he had AWOKEN some Few Hundred Years Latter and went off on his MISSION but then Discovered his Cargo had Evolved and then Infected him.

But thats all Changed with Alien Covenant.... it would seem likely that the Space Jockey would be either.

*David

*Another Synthetic

*A Sub-Created Humanoid by David.

But it could be OPEN to be a Engineer, a Race above the Engineers, or even just a Human.  It seems we will NEVER get a Conclusion and in TIME i think the Prequels will be REMOVED from Canon.

So if that the Case and i have to go back to WHAT i thought it would be prior to the Prequels... then that would be some 12-15ft Humanoid in a Space Suit.

I have two (or three theories) about who the space jockey is

I honestly think the best theory is that they're a sub-species of engineers, most likely similar to the ones seen getting killed by david. And yes i know that ridley scott said both are engineers but that can mean many things. None of them really look like engineers despite being claimed to be. If you look at their skin color from concept arts and their face mask thing (which i think is face hugger, but you get my point) look similar to the masks that we see the engineers wear in prometheus. Now, i know that comics are non-canon but both the engineers and the space jockey are a species called the mal'ak (Not sure if spelt correctly) which is why i think this theory holds the most sense. It could also be a mutated engineers as my previous theory said

The second is that they are a separate species which might or might not be above the engineers, There is many evidence to suggest this, first of all look at their masks, it looks like they are trying to mimic the space jockeys, and when we saw david go to "paradise" in covenant it looked like the engineers(or their sub-species) were waiting for a "god" to return, now the main problem here is that it would bring up a "god paradox" The space jockeys created the engineers but who created the space jockeys? And who created the creators of them, and so on. However this could be avoided easily.

And the third theory is that it's problem an andriod made by david or the engineers, which would make sense as they would most likely use decoys to transport bio-weapons like the xenomorphs, and it would make sense that the xenos got their bio-mechanical looks form it.

Now there are other theories that it is a human or david but those don't really make sense canon wise, but then again many things don't. I really hope that the "prometheus" saga doesn't get retconned or rebooted as it would take 2 films to make another origin story, but with disney owning the rights it is very worrying

The Space Jockey is something that has GONE through Changes....

Originally it was the Remains (Skeletal) of a Alien Organism that has NO Resemblance to a Human.  Then HR Giger came along and RS liked some of his Concepts which include Necronom V and so they did some Story Boards having the Space Jockey as similar to this Piece which would be a Bio-Mechanical being.

But then HR Giger was tasked to come up with a Original Design and he gave us the Space Jockey as in the Topic Banner, which implies either a Bio-Mechanical Being or a Space Suit.

Here are HR Gigers Face Hugger Concepts, and NOTE the Suit (not Helmet) is Similar to the Engineers Suits we saw in Prometheus (Suit the Engineer was in Cryo-sleep with) also these beings are Bald Humanoids.

In HR Gigers Mural we see these Space Suited beings but the Image on the Right is the Latter Versions where the MASK had been Changed, this Mask has some Connection to the Space Jockey Concept.

So our Space Jockey had became a Humanoid in a Space Suit, but the Problems began when the Actual Prop was Finished and it looked more like Bones/Skeleton in some Areas....

When we get to the Prequels then the Concept Works some of them looked more like a Merger between the Space Jockey Prop and the Concept that they was Based Off, but then they also did some Concepts that made it look LESS like the Space Jockey and our Prometheus Suit were BORN.

We was Supposed to be getting some 12-15ft Engineers, then 10ft but ALAS the Final Result was 8ft and this makes some Conflict to the Space Jockey Size but we are Expected to OVERLOOK such differences.

So they wanted to give us 9-10ft Tall Engineers as of Production.  But for all Intensive Purposes as of 2012 then YES the Space Jockey would have been a Engineer.

With the Change of Direction with AC we have to ASSUME that when David tucks Daniels into Cryo-Sleep there is NO EGGS on the Derelict and Likely that the SHIP is even NOT on LV-426 yet.

And so we have NOT yet concluded to WHO the Space Jockey is and so it could be a Engineer still (LV-223 or Planet 4 kind) but if they want to AVOID any Conflicts with ALIEN then they could make the Space Jockey to be 10-12 Feet Tall, and by doing so Introduce it as either.

*A Larger Sub-Creation  of the Engineers.

*The Creators of the Engineers.

*Or a Species that has the same Creator as the Engineers have.

The Revelation of this Species does-not have to look Very Human but it should still be either.

*A Space Suit

OR

*A Bio-Mechanical Organism.

But i Suspect that RS would have Revealed it as a Sub-Creation of David or David himself.

I can agree on that, due to the many retcons i think the most logical answers is that they are a sub-species of the engineers, like we saw in "paradise city". I personally dislike them being the "engineers creators" because it would open up a god paradox as it stated it before.

Seeing ridley's original plans and many other pitched scripts, it is clear that the space jockey was supposed to be an engineer, but looking at giger's artwork it shows a more humanoid version of the "space jockey" somewhat similar to what we got in prometheus. I think it's most likely a mix of the space jockeys and the ones original seen in gigers art work

"I personally dislike them being the "engineers creators" because it would open up a god paradox as it stated it before"

Well i think it FITS with the Theme that RS seems to be going for, which will BOIL DOWN to the ONLY thing that makes our Engineers Gods... is TIME and TECHNOLOGY/KNOWLEDGE.

And so IF the Company had Gained all their Knowledge then Mankind would be able to Genetically Alter themselves to LIVE for Longer, become Physically Superior and with the Engineers Creation Tool (GOO) they can then Create/Hybrid Lifeforms and with the Engineers Ships... then we could become the GODS.

The Space Jockey had gone through a LOT of Changes... it seemed PRIOR to the Prequels the IDEA that RS had settled on was we it was a SPACE SUIT. And Considering the Concepts by HR Giger it was NO real Surprise to me when we saw the Engineers.

The Main Dilemma comes from the SCALE i would say IF you asked RS or what he was thinking back in 2005, 2000, 1995 etc.... there would be NO WAY that he would Picture the Space Jockey Suit as being something that is WORN by a 8ft Being.  Our Downsized Pilot has came about from RS being Reluctant to USE any Special Effects to Digitally make our 7ft Actors become 12-15ft Engineers.

The Best Solution would be a Engineer and maybe we could have STILL ended up with this, its a Question of HOW TALL would he be?  But they could go by Kanes Comment "it looks like its Grown out of the Chair" to have it that something had made the Space Jockey/Engineer go and Expand after Death.

I think as NOTHING has been 100% Spelt Out on Screen then its OPEN to Change and so any Incoming Engineer Elders could be Portrayed as being 10ft Tall.

You turn the PLOT to be that these beings had GOT to a Point they Cant Procreate and so they Created Humanoids like on Earth to then take the Females and using their DNA with the GOO they can Infect those Females Egg Cells to Create a Hybrid Human/Engineer and these are WHAT we see on Planet 4.

> he Best Solution would be a Engineer and maybe we could have STILL ended up with this, its a Question of HOW TALL would he be?  But they could go by Kanes Comment "it looks like its Grown out of the Chair" to have it that something had made the Space Jockey/Engineer go and Expand after Death.

According to the official wiki, they are rougly 25 feet (8 meters) tall, and around 2 meters wide. I could very well see them being a failed sub-creation of the engineers that might have been used by david to try and create a "drone" to infect other worlds.

I personally dislike the idea that a species was directly involved with creating the engineers as it would contradict the previous 2 movies

Yes the Intention was for a  27ft Tall Space Jockey but this FAILS for the same Reasons that our Engineers in Prometheus are Plain to see they are NOT 10ft.

Ridley Scott like to use Actual Props/Sets and he does things to Create a Illusion of Scale that are UNDONE in other Shots... Example is

Using Camera Angles and having Ian Whyte (Engineer) Standing on a Platform thats at HIGHER LEVEL than Fassbender and Pearce are gives the Illusion that the Engineer is much more Taller. (seem like just under 9ft, when in Reality he was just over 7ft).

The Intended Height and Acceptance of the Space Jockey before the Prequels was 15ft (i actually think it was 13ft) and so when we STARTED on the Prequels our Engineers were INTENDED to be 12-15ft but Ridley Scott would NOT go and USE any kind of Effects to Create that Reality.

In Reality though the Pilot Chair Props are about the Same Size, and so our Prometheus Space Jockey is SMALLER than the our Space Jockey from ALIEN.

But this still means the 1979 Space Jockey would FIT in the same Chair.

Ridley Scott said about how Humans come in all Different Races... then WHY cant the Engineers?  Well i also say that IF we as Humans come in Different Sizes then WHY cant the  Engineers?

So our 7ft-8ft Basket Ball Players in the Engineers Society could mean we can have 9-10ft Engineers, and so if they SHOW us a 9-10ft Engineer who has a SUIT that FITS them and maybe we Accept something Happened to Cause this 10ft Suited Space Jockey to SWELL UP then indeed THAT would make the Scale to the Space Jockey more Accepting.

And so i would like to think the Space Jockey is a 10ft Entity/Being who maybe has Grown out of the Chair a Little (for some Reason) or they could give us a 12ft Being instead.   And if so then this BEING would be Best Shown to be ABOVE the Engineers in the Creation Layer Cake or another Sub-Creation of the Engineers.

I do Suspect that Ridley Scott would maybe thrown a Curve-ball it is David or a Sub-Creation of his though... but we MAY NEVER get to know or see that anymore.

I still think you could Explore the Space Jockey as something Else.

As i have indicated on this Topic what we have is a Space Suit where its ONLY the Skull that looks kind of like a Skeleton.

I came Across this Work by Noely Ryan

I think its a BIT too much like the NewBorn but i could Imagine where the NOSE AREA is having a Snorkel/Breathing Pipe Connected to it that Connects to the Suit/Chair....  so the Suit does-not have a Helmet per-say and EVEN if we USE the other Fifield Concept that i have used in this TOPIC in the same Way.

I think either could WORK as a Alternative Space Jockey to Introduce them as a Different Taller Species.

Love that artwork!   ( Was the NewBorn done forming? Most think the Deacon, like the newborn, was an infant? Takes awhile for the xeno....)

I'd like to think the SpaceJockey ( Alien ) is a mutated military abomination created by the Engineers splicing their own genes. Creating super soldiers.....probably exactly what the militaries on Earth would do if they could!

So the Engineers created super soldiers and gave them modified / upgraded juggernauts? 

On the question of size and slight differences in design that is merely artistic licence. It is entirely clear from one of the Furious Gods Documentary PODS that they worked painstakingly to 'make' the reveal in Prometheus work and for the audience to make the connection. People may not like it but that's the reality.

My own view is that Monster Zero moves into much more fertile and interesting territory when he speculates on how the Space Jockey has come about. 

In my work, both the Juggernauts and their pilots are the result of playing with the creation tool. The Juggernauts are both alive and mechanical and the underlying matrix which drives them has one source which manifests itself in a number of different ways. 

The creatures of the Moon have not only pursued sub-creation through hosting but also experimented with evolutionary techniques on themselves and other living creatures. The thing that they created drives everything and in the case of ship/pilot leads to a symbiotic relationship which Elizabeth and to a much greater extent David interfaces with. 

I also felt it was important to elevate in the story the particular Engineer and his ship which became the SJ and Derelict. Like the Engineer celebrated/worshipped in the Pyramid, the SJ has a unique and important back story. 

In a sense what I am saying is the physical distinctions are much less important than how you place these characters in the story you wish to tell. If they are crucial to the story in a unique way that makes them "big" in a much more profound sense and can give them importance in a new and intreaguing way.  

"...evolutionary techniques on themselves"

This makes total sense from a human standpoint, who doesn't want to be taller, stronger, faster, etc...? I can only imagine what humans will do to themselves given the technology.  Instead of super soldiers...maybe designer genes are where it's at?

I think Regarding what Ridley Scott had intended, then for me it was NO Surprise the Space Jockey were BALD HUMANOIDS as this is WHAT we saw with HR Gigers Concepts for ALIEN, and also his Space Jockey Concept looked like a Space Suit.

It was intended to have a Taller Race of Engineers but it was a Creative Decision at the Time of some of the Production to go with a Smaller Engineer/Space Jockey Race because Ridley Scott does Prefer to be as Practical as Possible and like to NOT use CGI if he can.  This is in Part as to WHY we had Zombie Fifield as RS was a Fan of the Work that Sean Haris had put into the Action Scene.

I think that YES there are Differences Aesthetically between the Derelict and Juggernaught and Engineers Space Suit and the Space Jockey, but these are INTENDED and RS was Happy with the Result, while they MAY-NOT look the Same they are Intended to be for all Intensive Purposes and RS does-not LOOSE any Sleep over HOW they are NOT like Identical etc.

The Scale of the Engineer is something that RS does-not have a Issue with either, and so IF we had a Conclusion then maybe we should NOT go and Expect to see a 13ft Being in that Pilot Chair.

The Actual Pilot Chairs of the Derelict and Juggernaught are Similar, including the Size, its only in ALIEN and Prometheus the Pilots are NOT the same Size, but as Dallas has said "it looks like its GROWN out of the Chair" and so that could be ALL the Explanation we NEED/GET.

For me the Slight Aesthetical Differences were NO PROBLEM... the Scale was a BIT, i think its a Shame our  Engineers were NOT like 9-10ft Tall, but this does-not RULE-OUT there are 9-10ft Tall Engineers.

I will add that we have NOT yet had a Conclusion... and so we can Speculate a Little.

IF they got to Conclude the Prequels we could always be Introduced to Taller Humanoids who they can Reveal as either a Sub-Creation of the Engineers or even the Engineers Creators.  They could make this Race/Being as 10ft Tall and they could be Very Human/Engineer looking or maybe Slightly Different.

Maybe like this? or even Less Human.

I do Suspect that IF we got a Conclusion then the Revelation i Suspect would have been either a Sub-Creation by David or David himself.  Even if this would NOT be 13-15ft Tall... i dont think RS would have Cared about HOW things looked Physically it would be as Michelle said... HOW the STORY FITS and is TOLD that is more Important to Ridley Scott.

Regarding the Space Jockey being something the Engineers had Created/Engineered.... then YES i think that was what we was being SHOWN as FAR as the LV-223 Engineers being those PILOTS and also being a Enhanced Super Soldiers of their Society.

IF we are willing to ACCEPT those LV-223 Engineers are a Engineered/Enhanced version of the Engineers then WHO is to say the Engineers have NOT got even more BIGGER GUYS they have Genetically Enhanced?

The Middle Image is what we would have GOT had say the Space Jockey Suit been about 10ft as Intended before Mid-Production and Shooting.

While its NOT as BIG as the 13ft Space Jockey, it would look Close Enough and well the GUY had Grown out of his Chair ;)

And who is to say there are NOT like 9-10ft Engineers or Sub/Enhanced Creations?

I dont think that RS had EVER intended to show us the Actual Space Jockey from ALIEN so it did-not Matter to him (Kept it a Mystery), but with the Direction of AC i think had he Concluded the Prequels it would NOT have bothered HIM if we had to Accept the Space Jockey would be the SAME as the Pilot in Prometheus.

But i do Suspect he would have THROWN a Curve-ball that would have Displeased the Fans.

It'd be cool if David would narrate the history of the Engineers. He must know a bit about them after ten years?

David ( voice over )"...The Engineers ever expanding empire was never seriously challenged..."

Footage of juggernauts and large cities.

"..But all good things must come to an end....."

Footage of death and destruction.

"The arrival of the Slomalgut ( dead ones ) championed their end. A terrifying race of super beings, bent on the cultivation of living tissue....."

"...The Engineers quickly began modifying themselves in a failed attempt to slow down the Slomalgut ....."

"It'd be cool if David would narrate the history of the Engineers. He must know a bit about them after ten years?"

I think he would Learn Quite a LOT as Ridley Scott had said the Cathedral is where the Engineers had STORED all their Knowledge like a Giant Repository of Knowledge.

It would have been Great to see and Learn more about the Engineers for sure, we do have Ridley Scott and also Jon Spaights has mentioned Quite a Bit about them. And Creation/Evolution and Genetic Engineer seems to be their MAIN OBJECTIVE as Opposed to Creating Horrors to USE to Destroy Life.

"The Juggernauts are both alive and mechanical"

Yes Michelle thats what it seemed from ALIEN.... it was that Strange Merger of Organic and Non-Organic, were you had a Hard Time to FIGURE OUT as to what is Organic and what was NOT... the same can be said about the Xenomorph.

The Juggernaught and Engineer Suits (Space Jockey) did look much more Mechanical and ONLY a SMALL % Organic looking..... again it was a Creative Decision to TONE DOWN the HR Giger Aesthetic.   But Ridley Scott would Claim the Differences are down in Part that in Prometheus they are Pristine/New and in ALIEN they are Degraded and Worn.  But he also indicated that the Ships are Different Models, and One being Older than the other.

I think the Parts of the Aesthetic the Ship looked to have Bone Structures but the Color was Grey-ish and so Matched the Xenomorph to a Degree...  a BIG MISTAKE was that the Space Jockey looked like BONE COLOR...

The Prometheus Chair is a Uniform Grey Color.... the ALIEN one we see some of the Chair is that kind of Color, but some of it has become Washed Out like Bone Color and so is the Space Jockey Suit......  Yet the Rest of the Derelict seems to Maintain that Grey-ish Color.

There is NO real Explanation for this... its something they DONT think we would even Consider to ASK about..... but you could FIND a Explanation well come up with ONE.....  being Thousands of Years Old etc and Derelict could Explain that.  Maybe being a Mix of Organic and Synthetic/Mechanical could too.

This becomes a Problem with the AC Plot.

As far as them being LIVING.... well YEAH thats what HR Giger had thought, he also said he FELT they was GROWN and had also Mentioned about them being like PLANTS.

But it seemed they Steered away from a LOT of ideas of HR Giger and his Aesthetic to a Degree...

"a BIG MISTAKE was that the Space Jockey looked like BONE COLOR"

I think this only applies if the filmmakers revisit the derelict on LV-426. If David opens the seat and we see a 13 ft. mutated Engineer ( the bones at least ) then we'll know.....But if the derelict is rebuilt Prometheus style...Then..*shrug*

The difference is much easier to explain then the difference between the Nostromo CRT tech and the flat panel Prometheus/Covenant tech.

We discussed if RS would do CRT's for Prometheus...Wonder if he would change the SJ on lv426?

Where's Gavin? He had some great derelict insight.

Yeah sometimes you are STUCK with Limitations of Movie Making at the Time, they could have had Prometheus go and USE like CRT but then in the Year 2090 surely our Space Ships would NOT be using CRT... Especially a Flag-Ship.  And thats Basically as to HOW he Explained it... the Nostromo was Basic and NOT a Flag-ship.

I dont think RS would loose Sleep over how OUTDATED the Tech in ALIEN looks for 100 Years from NOW... and i think he would also NOT be Concerned with say HOW the Derelict and Juggernaut and Space Jockey Suits look slightly Different.

But in 2010-2011 you have the Technology to Portray a 10-12 Foot Space Jockey Race, and they had Considered this even as Production Began..  But seems they Decided to just go for USING the 7ft Actors and Play with Camera Angles etc to make them seem Taller......

They could have used Special Effects like we have seen in Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit and in Game of Thrones, but RS is a FAN of using as Less as Possible and having a 7ft Actor who can Directly Interact with the other Cast was his Preferred Choice.

It seems he NEVER had the Intention to SHOW US the Space Jockey event at the Time of Prometheus and so some MYSTERY would have been KEPT.

Where he could have said something like.... so NOT every Human is 6ft.... so NOT every Engineer is 8ft and so we can have some Taller than Average Men at 7-8ft then maybe the Engineers can have Taller than Average Engineers at about 10ft?

Yeah I thought about that....( Maybe a teenage Engineer in Prometheus? 1000 year lifecycle? 200 years till full size...). .....But with the SJ chair fitting him and the hibernation chamber fitting him, I dropped that idea. Unless the ships are grown for you? 

I have Adjusted a Few Scenes from Prometheus like it would look if they used Re-Size Special Effects and the Result gives us a 10ft Engineer.

I think they had this in Mind but then for sakes of Time and Practicality they just went with the LIVE SHOT of the Actors rather than having to Re-scale/Edit the Engineer.  This would add TIME and Budget and Ridley Scott is a FAN of using as LESS after-affects as Possible and trying to CUT COSTS (Why Half the Space Jockey Pilot Chamber and Egg Chamber Scenes Re-Used most of the same SET).

But as we have Discussed on here it seems RS is Happy with the End Product, and NOT every Man is 5ft10 some can be 7.5ft even 8ft... and so we could have 9-10ft Engineers..... Especially if the LV-223 Guys are Genetically Enhanced/Engineered.

"hibernation chamber"

Yes thats a Good Point, this was Clearly made to FIT the Actor Ian Whyte inside and so would Accommodate a up to 8ft Being. (likely 7.5ft)  again these Cyo-Pods where in the Pilot Room for the sakes of Time/Budget as in the Earlier Drafts the Engineer awoken from  another Area and went to a Device to be Fitted into the Space Jockey Suit.

Its just Easier to have Combined the Cryo-Sleep Pods into the Pilot Chamber as far as Budget and Time, and WHILE this makes another Aesthetic Difference to the Derelict we have to Remember the Derelict is likely a Different Model so they are Similar but there Sizes are Different and Internal Layout would be a Little Different.

Look at this painting what a creature may be Space Jockey https://pl.pinterest.com/pin/629378116683523636/