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The sacrifice part is intriguing because it could mean that despite being a highly advanced civilization are still very religious. Or maybe the sacrifices are of scientific nature?
Of course! It would be good to see Theo James as a male lead, but why don't we have more important characters? I want Olga Kurylenko, Rooney Mara, Juliette Binoche, Alex Pettyfer, Tom Hiddleston... Aaahh, that would be too expensive!
I dont think so.The queen is Camerons stupidity.As you said queen can refer to other things, possible Daniels.
Because he said that he will do the same on Daniels that he did on Shaw.She had queen corone like organic parts on the head.
The Advent is very great. Thanks for sharing it.
Well...compared to Star Wars:
Alien series 6 films: 2 great, 4 mediocre.
The bad:questionable storylines, silly scenes. ?
Star Wars 7 films: 2 great, 5 mediocre.
The bad: Jar Jar, midichlorians, fighting yoda, questionable acting, child actors, questionable storylines, silly scenes, etc...So many cringe inducing scenes. I've probably forgotten another hundred....
I would think Star Wars should be the one who needs saving! Lol!
We've ducked the child actor trainwreck(Newt was excellent *whew*)
No Jamaican accented synths. "Yo mon, needs the servin'?, okey dokey....catchen' ya' later then mon"
Alien: Covenant could have introduced child actors(it's a colony ship)! Have a scene or two, where the children are threatened by a facehugger! Cool movies poster maybe?
I think the series is really, really solid compared to Star Wars. Just doesn't have 1/4(?) of the fanbase.
I haven't heard about his superhero comments. What did he say?
lance - Totally true! :) I didn't want to mention that explanation because some members had already provided the obvious reason of the deletion in question. :)
I hope Fox will drop the next sequel suddenly and without any prior promotion/teaser, just like a Beyonce album.
That green outfit Irish lady should be the next Ripley.
I mean, really. How dumb did the writers think fans of this franchise would be? Did they think we wouldn't notice? "Oh that's a *different* ship.. Different planet.. We swear" Pfffft.Pull the other one, Lindelof. Maybe it's the case *now*, canonically speaking, but let's be honest folks.. That WAS the space jockey. That WAS the derelict ship, and by F*** that WAS LV-426!!!
Err... It was always meant to be a different moon in the same system, orbiting the same planet. Having it be the same moon as Alien wouldn't make sense to canon. The Alien crew would have found the wreckage of the Prometheus and the crashed Juggernaut with a decomposed Weyland...
Well i must admit i am EXTREMELY grateful for that link.
I loved every second of "Advent" and i am going to break it down to its last molecule. Finally some answers and something to get stuck into.
Many Many Thanks.
If the movie's ending was like the novel's, we could've had Advent play as David begins transmitting. I think the ending would've been a much more interesting setup for the sequel.
I just feel like only the fans will see this and therefore it was wasted opportunity. Or was it?
Very interesting... Would it have helped to put some of the Advent moments into the film? Possibly...
There is a very simple answer. The Alien Pathogen was created out of punishment for unauthorised sub creation by fallen angels who were turned into serpents metaphorically speaking the allegory of Paradise Lost but Ridley rather than pursue that has in his view gone for the much more interesting story which many people here are in denial over which is David is the creator of the creature utilising the pathogen in a specific way.
So rather than deal with creationism and a mechanical view of our origins he is simply pursuing the dynamic of immorality (synthetic) mortality (mankind) or as Marc Kermode has said Bladerunner has hijacked Alien.
It is most interesting that those who give Covenant gravitas say and all the questions will be answered in Awakening - that is a cop out. They were in the environment where every single question left open in Prometheus could have been answered and instead they made an A L I E N retread movie.
The problem is, regardless of which movie we got, whether it was the Prometheus follow-up, or the modern Aliens for the Cameron die-hards, these answers were never going to be shoved into one movie.
Focusing the movie on the Engineers alone, as much as many of us would have loved it, would have put the franchise into Cardiac Arrest. Unfortunately, too many want the action of Aliens, which is why RS brought back the Xeno at all. It really is a case of trying to please as many as possible by giving the action fans the Xeno moments, and the exposition fans of Prometheus, a little insight into our so-called ancestors, something I am glad for, however small the nod was. It at least means that we will see more of them in the next film.
@joylitt, Nobody laughed in the (large) audience at the screening I attended. In my opinion, the scene is sheer brilliance. The baby Alien has glistening beauty in the destruction that it creates (hard to disagree with David's description of perfection). The music is rousing. David signals his presence, begging an acknowledgement, echoing the theme of Holloway's sacrifice. The limbs unfold and spread. The little monster, only seconds old, senses its power and superiority. It doesn't see, but it sees. It acknowledges its maker.
Same here. No one laughed. The only snigger came from the predictable innuendo of David's like to Walter "I'll do the fingering"
Love it or hate it, the birth is an incredible use of CGI... Something so terrifying looks almost vulnerable with its spindly legs and tiny teeth... We of course know this to be a false sense of security...
David is truly dead.Last time we see him is when he puts Shaw to sleep in the prologue.And then fuck up Walter too...
2 of the best characters.
Hope he returns with the juggernauts from the extended scene
Even so, given that he was so distraught when Oram killed the Neomorph, you'd think he'd be equally upset over his hand-crafted creation...
this may have a connection to the regenerative abilities of walter and the mechanical looking nature of the original xeno. in the novel, he grows his arm back. yet im unsure of what in the novel qualifies as canon as RS hasn't said to say that the novel is canon except the bits that wernt in the movie or vice versa
I think when daniels kills the protomorph he is probably just assessing this first try. he probably just comes to the conclusion it isn't yet perfected so not too bothered as it is just a first attempt. if it was good enough daniels wouldn't have been able to kill it and definitely wouldn't need his help to survive
The eggs from the derelict ship in Alien could not have been created by David because the chestburster looked different in both movies. The one from Alien looked more of Engineers ancient design.
With the words'in order to create one must first destroy' David describes his experiments on Holloway, Shaw, all Engineers and fauna of Paradise. He destroyed them all in his pursuit to create the perfect organism. He does not refer to the pathogen and my theory is that the catalyser ingested by the sacrificial engineer is totally different from the pathogen.
"Acknowledge beauty when you see it. Even if its appearance disturbs you, surely you can admire the skill that went into its design. In case you are wondering, I had nothing to do with it. It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the Engineers' skill. And also, I suppose, of their hubris." Those were the words of David while showing the Egg in his lab to Oram. The eggs were created by Engineers in thousands of years of practice at biological and genetic engineering. David only did reverse engineering re-creating small eggs like those on the table until he made the ones in the basement. So the meaning is that the eggs were created by biological and genetic engineering.
Wise man he say "Don't say other people dumb when he say dumb things himself".
I don’t think the creature is cooked. It’s just that many fans are a bit disappointed in how AC was made, but I think many of us will come to like it, sufficiently, as time goes by.
How to save the franchise? In what way does it have to be saved? It did/does reasonably well in theaters (concerning money) and money will pour in from blu-rays/DVDs etc.
I think that the alien franchise will live on and that there will pop up new films every now and then, just like King Kong, Phantom of the Opera, Frankenstein etc . . .
The genre is sci-fi-horror so you must of course like that genre in order to appreciate these films. “The Crossing” was very nice, but it’s more of the drama genre? I think most of us here wants to see more films/stories centred in the alien universe, just as it’s fun to see the continuation of the Star Wars saga?
I’m looking forward to Alien: Awakening as well as Alien: Covenant - Origins. The show must go on . . .
That is why the scene was cut :)
I don't get whats hard to understand here. if u knew anything ud know that there r 3 moons orbiting the gas giant. lv426 was a dead rock so made sense that the prequel took place on one of the other moons. all that's on lv426 in alien is the derelict. how is that so hard to get?
In one regard Covenant was audacious and ADF more so - the prologue. It really deals with this issue (as far as I am concerned) that Peter Weyland dazzled by his own creativity conjures up the notion that a mechanical being is immortal but he misses the vital point which could have been the basis for the most audacious and wonderful of stories that what makes mankind immortal is the soul.... which of course David when he is ignited does not have.
In my vision the secret of Paradise should have been that the source of their power is mechanical (linking to the smaller theme of the Bio Mechanical creature). That David discovered the grace of humanity which is love in his feelings for Elizabeth and as a machine found his soul through infecting and destroying the source of their power. This with Elizabeths sacrifice would have brought the story in a majestic full circle from the acolyte of the new world to Shaw and David and reveal a truth which we all know that sacrifice small or large is an action of grace and goodness which years later Ripley pursues with the end of her story.
Thematically all of that ties the big things from small beginnings of the entire series. Origin creationism, interfered fallen creationism and redemption through sacrifice.
For those obsessed by the XXX121 all you need to know is it belongs to the second movement of the story.
What are you talking about?We see LV-426 only in Alien.Maybe it will be shown in Awakening or in other prequel.
@ Lawrence of Arabia
Yes, I saw the short film about David calling the mutagen/pathogen "Radical AI" and saw the discussion in another thread. The problem is, of course, what that means . . . The philosophical questions remain: AI (program)/soul/free will/synthetic/biological (organic)/soul etc. Humans are built up on replicating DNA (a program?).
When it comes to the alien monster, the are two possibilities when we talk about biomechanical:
1: It's the aesthetics of the creature (the way it looks). This is of course from Giger's art. The monster itself is biological (organic).
2: The monster is a blend of biology and mechanical (synthetic) parts. The mutagen/pathogen could be a mixture of synthetic and organic matter, or David perhaps contributes with synthetic traits to the alien creature?
I wish that the writers would only make it out to be only self perceived immortality.
BigDave
"Then have the incoming Engineers arrive at the end, we dont have to see them on Paradise and this saves money.. they could instead have a Juggernaught turn up to Davids Horror and then Walter walks down.... and then we see Engineers."
David's true horror would not be Walter you know, but if it was a resurrected (reanimated, maybe as in American Gods) Shaw would come out and possibly kill him as a compassionate thing for life in the Galaxy.
I found this faux poster online. I bet this would have grabbed the attention of many Prometheus fans :-)
Thank you for responding. I have my own set of views some of which overlap with yours but they are views and interpretations not answers.
Why is this important.
Because the entire point of a prequel series, and it is why some understandably do not like the notion of them, is to provide a coherent set of answers to the creation story in which the XXX121 came about. Not necessarily precisely how the creature was specifically created but the world into which it was created.
There is a very simple answer. The Alien Pathogen was created out of punishment for unauthorised sub creation by fallen angels who were turned into serpents metaphorically speaking the allegory of Paradise Lost but Ridley rather than pursue that has in his view gone for the much more interesting story which many people here are in denial over which is David is the creator of the creature utilising the pathogen in a specific way.
So rather than deal with creationism and a mechanical view of our origins he is simply pursuing the dynamic of immortality (synthetic) mortality (mankind) or as Marc Kermode has said Bladerunner has hijacked Alien.
It is most interesting that those who give Covenant gravitas say and all the questions will be answered in Awakening - that is a cop out. They were in the environment where every single question left open in Prometheus could have been answered and instead they made an A L I E N retread movie.
I can see that there is a step missing in my point about the 15 to 34 generation which frankly I assumed everyone would connect.
When a studio underwrites a tentpole movie (100,000 million dollars plus) it does so believing it is going to capture the crucial segment of the audience to turn a profit. The crucial segment of the audience is 15 to 34 because it represents nearly half the audience.
In the UK the over 55's love films like "Lady of The Van" which are made for a fraction of the cost and there are lots of lovely small films made for that age group.
So your point is key and one which puts Alien Prequels in jeopardy as tent pole material. The crucial young audience are not naturally interested in the kind of sci fi that Alien represents.
There has to be a reason why Covenant did not do well at the box office and its not the early reviews, they were good certainly not negative, so it must be an Alien prefix movie is not a natural for the crucial audience.
You then get those whom attend.
Alien fans
Aliens Fans
Prometheus fans many of whom are original Alien films and thats when the highly fragmented feedback begins which you see on this forum and others.
Finally
Whether you like him or not Damon Lindelof set up Prometheus to be speculative, which I loved, and intended those speculations would be answered in the follow up Prometheus movie. He has seen Covenant and said they have yet to reach the place where those answers would be found. So if the script writer feels we are in a holding pattern and thats how I see it then I am fairly clear my response is correct. Meanwhile I can buy the Blu Ray and watch an homage to the first movie and a little of the second in the 1st and 3rd Act but because I know its familiar and I have been there before my interest is going to be to scrutinise the 2nd act and see if there is a coherent story about Elizabeth and anything remotely like answers on the Engineers that I missed in the cinema or Alan Dean Foster did not provide. I am expecting meagre fair.
Why create mankind, indeed. Now there's a question and a half.
They did it because they could? David asks how disappointing it would be to find that out from our maker, the implication being that he believes - or at least suspects - a greater purpose to creation.
We aren't party to that purpose, but it's regarded as a failure, both by the Engineers and David. An experiment that didn't yield good results. The experiment was the action, but what was the purpose?
We know David's idea of perfection, which makes a lot of sense if you take morality out of the picture. What is the Engineers' idea of perfection, I wonder. They seem to revere the humanoid form in their architecture, yet idolise the Alien also.
Are they carrying out what they believe is God's work, I wonder.
@joylitt, Nobody laughed in the (large) audience at the screening I attended. In my opinion, the scene is sheer brilliance. The baby Alien has glistening beauty in the destruction that it creates (hard to disagree with David's description of perfection). The music is rousing. David signals his presence, begging an acknowledgement, echoing the theme of Holloway's sacrifice. The limbs unfold and spread. The little monster, only seconds old, senses its power and superiority. It doesn't see, but it sees. It acknowledges its maker.
Maybe FOX wants the public to perceive that is their idea to do what this site has been doing all along as sort of a grassroots thing? I remember Chris was among others to give fan questions to RS himself before AC was released.
VivisectedEngineer - Glad you like it!
BigDave - It was in May, things have changed, if we get an AC sequel, it will/should be a packed one, full of events and characters. Otherwise...
