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My Review: where are the plot holes again?

Prometheus Forum Topic

Maiafay

MemberOvomorphJune 08, 20121584 Views29 Replies
I want to say I'm a casual Alien fan. I never got nerdy or nitpicky over details in the franchise. I even liked Alien Resurrection. Hell, I liked AVP for what it was. The only movie I grimaced at was Alien 3 – but for personal reasons (Newt dying, Ripley bald, etc..) and I acknowledge its place in the Alien universe (begrudgingly). Anyway, just got back from my "twilight" viewing of Prometheus (the damn popcorn and drink was more expensive than my ticket, go figure), and all the imagery and info is still bouncing around in my head. Quite a bit there, even though I was spoiled rotten going in. But this time being spoiled worked for me rather than against me. I knew when certain scenes were approaching and could prepare accordingly (most noteworthy: the do-it-yourself caesarian and angry cobra worms from hell). Every bit of violence came quick and brutal – even the subtle gesture David made when poisoning Charlie's drink. Though I knew when the nastiness was coming it still caught me off guard. Quite a bit of tension when in the temple/ship. I'm afraid I'm biased as hell when it comes to temples/mysteries. Love them. Love the holographic engineers running from some unknown pursuer, love the pile of bodies outside the door. Such powerful beings reduced to mummified corpses – makes one wonder and fear (as Milburn and Fifield rightfully had) what had horrified them so? Some other noteworthy concepts/performances: David of course – then again, I'm biased there too because I love Fassbender. I could watch an entire movie about David, lol. I believe David is the product of his creator/programming/lack of guidance. Poisoning Holloway was the direct result of Weyland saying “try harder” (which I interpret as try harder to find answers) and David's personal dislike of how Holloway treated him. And this action then justified in David's mind with a pointed question to Holloway of “what would you do?” It's a classic be “careful what you wish for” concept. David just gave Holloway what he wanted. David's callus treatment of Shaw I think stems from his excitement over his discovery of the surviving Engineer. It seems to me, he's dismissive because he found a better way of pleasing Weyland. Then when Shaw operates on herself (damn, that was nasty), David is impressed at her courage and seems more respectful. I noticed David's less savory behavior heightens in the presence of Weyland. That entire segment where they enter the temple/ship to meet this Engineer, David seemed arrogant, vain, condescending, and reckless – until he gets his head yanked off. Then it's a reality check. Everyone is dead and he's left conscious and not attached to his body. I think he might have been alarmed - if not a little afraid he would be left in that state. I heard genuine relief in his voice when Shaw answers him later on. Yes, there was some subtle blackmail there, him knowing how to pilot the other ships, but he had no other card to play. And to those who ask how DID he know where the other ships were, or how to pilot them – I believe he learned with the holograms. He's an android. He's going to absorb every detail. He has a photographic memory (implied anyway). It's not that much of a stretch to assume he gleaned info from those Engineers (and perhaps what they were saying to the one in the chair) and used it accordingly. Anyway, I hope he's back for the sequel and shows Shaw how to reattach his head. Glad she lowered his body and took it with her. Hopefully he won't be just a head talking in the next movie. Shaw and Holloway I liked – and liking Holloway was a surprise. If he hadn't been such a dick to David, I would have been more sympathetic when he died. He loved Shaw, and it showed. And the reason I think he chose to die (because some were complaining he was too quick to chose that route) was because he realized there was no way he would survive. He was decomposing practically in seconds. He wouldn't risk infecting the others, especially Shaw(And I assume “Holloway” assumed this infection was contained to him – as Shaw exhibited no symptoms). And fire pretty much kills anything infectious, hence forcing Vickers to incinerate him. His motivations made sense to me. When people were bashing the flute, I thought it was some grandiose extended scene of melodramatic flute playing and little worms swaying in time to the music. Actual flute playing was like two seconds. Okay, four if you count the Engineer using it to operate his station (and you barely heard it). Really? All the fuss over that? You know what? The flute fit. It was fine. And the organic buttons were fine (saw someone complain about those too). Due to the organic nature of the ship's design, I'd say the buttons match. Now all we need is tentacle drapes and a white squishy loveseat. *sigh* Actually, the flute gives insight to a culture that may regard music highly – to the point of incorporating it into their security. Disagree or agree. That's my theory. My only nitpicks are the movie should have been longer and the score was odd. I didn't hate it, but it ended up distracting me sometimes. One scene in particular felt truncated with Janek suddenly talking about the Engineers and weapons of mass destruction. I supposed he could have surmised this based on looking at scans and his brief time inside the temple, but it kinda seemed like it came from nowhere. Eh, it's nothing to hate the movie over, but I do hope there's an extended cut for the DVD. I will be seeing it again. I keep hearing it improves after a second viewing, and spending more on my popcorn than movie ticket sounds fair enough to me. And if anyone would like to throw some other "plot holes" at me, I'd be more than willing to discuss them – amiably of course :)

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Replies to My Review: where are the plot holes again?

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Svanya
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Well, Shaw's "baby" is one plot hole. No one cared even though it was a biohazard. They go so far as to kill Holloway outside the ship because he is infected yet after Shaw has her C-Section no one is even mildly interested to find out where the "baby" is, no one contains it's corpse, nothing. Made no sense at all. :/ *(I liked Resurrection, and AVP too! I did not like AVP2 though, very cheesy)

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artyoh
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I think Janek was probably ex-military, hence his rather simplistic interpretation that the complex was a military facility. He also didn't hesitate to act on what he'd said earlier about doing whatever was necessary to keep what they'd found from ever reaching Earth,
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ShaneFalco
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David was the only person who knew about the baby. Remember?
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Maiafay
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I don't believe her "condition" was known to most. And I don't think it mattered to those who knew at that point. David was the only one to get a good look at it, and I doubt he really cared since he had a bigger present for his daddy. And during that scene, Weyland was up and getting ready to meet his makers. That was priority. It seemed to me that everyone had been ordered to attend him or prepare for the trip. And the rest (Janek and his trusty sidekicks) had no clue Shaw was in trouble.
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artyoh
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@Svanya Shaw ran a decontamination cycle after she got out of the autodoc and we saw it stop moving. it [i]appeared[/i] to be dead. David was the only other character who even knew she was preggers. The proverbial shit hit the fan, just after her C-section, and the crew was quite busy reacting to more immediate threats.
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ShaneFalco
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yea , that dead guy showed up and started killing people. Doubt they had time to worry about some dead alien baby
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Svanya
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No David wasn't the only one, at least 2 others (Ford and another) knew because they were putting her into hypersleep after David told them about her situation, they were in Hazmat suits so they were taking precautions and knew something was wrong. Thing is the people that knew about Shaw were also the ones that were protecting Weyland, anything that could be dangerous to him would logically have been eradicated.

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boinkerX
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she was up and at-em seconds after a hip-to-hip c-section. Drugs or no, her abdominal muscles were severed.
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Svanya
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@boinkerX; True, BUT adrenaline/endorphins can make you do amazing things.

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Hadley's Hope
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Plot holes? You want plot holes? I'll give them to you... but I'm going to debunk what you think might be one - Janek figuring out that the place was for making WMD came from nowhere. He walked into a scary temple, deep in an artifical hill, (one of five identical compounds) the place is full of black goo, after seeing lots of dead extra terrestials from Milburn and Fifield's video feed, he walks past a headless Space Jockey, sees black goo in Milburns dead mouth, and a snake like creature that jumps out of him and into the black goo, and then sees an infected Holloway start to zombify, and later has to use a flamethrower on Zombie fifield... I don't think it was that hard to put two and two together there. How David knew there were other ships isn't a major plot hole either, because while it may be unexplained, it's not unlikely that he would know because a) he seems to be able to read their writing, b) it may have been mentioned in the holographic playback and c) When they were landing in the first place, there were 5 identical domes lined up in the valley. Presumably there would be 5 ships. Real plot holes? .. I did a [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/7057]thread on bloopers[/url] in this film. Some are minor, some are major contrivances, and some are one unlikely contrivance heaped upon a few more, just to achieve a desired result.
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alteredstate.
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how do you account for a xeno mural when it had to be born through a sj and a human gestation of the squid facehugger scenario even though they share our dna that's intriguing to me and hope they answer that in a sequel. not necessarily a plot hole just an intriguing question .
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Maiafay
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Thank God for Lazarus for Firefox. I keep getting booted from the site. @boinker She had issues throughout the rest of the movie after that scene. She was in pain [b]despite[/b] the drugs and frankly, it's the future. Whatever numbing agent that medic bed used did miracles, and lasers in general are extremely precise - even in this age. So can you imagine how precise they would be fifty years from now? If you noticed, the only thing that bled was "cuddles". Then the staple job that barely left a seam. It's not a stretch at all for me to assume there had been little damage to her abdominal muscles. Bottom line: It's the future, it's high tech medical equipment. It's not a plot hole. @Hadley's Hope Artyoh answered that question in a previous post. Again, it could be a deleted scene, or what Artyoh surmised. Janek just had common sense. Still, really not a plot hole IMO.
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alteredstate.
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so we can create skin barely indistinguishable from our own to cover an android body exoskeleton but we can't perfect operation grafts in the same way ? i just wish as scientists, and biologists, we could of had a scene of david breeding mice to distinguish breathable air and contamination issues, and for fire to work you need oxygen the cave itself had Oxygen the planet didn't how did the flame throwers function Possibly from a hidden oxygen cartridge in the device ? . these are minor issues but issues non the less could of been handled better.
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Maiafay
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The planet did have oxygen, but not enough to support humans. It could have been enough to support flame. And who knows how flamethrowers are constructed in 2093? As for skin graphs, maybe that wouldn't be enough to properly seal the wound. Or maybe the medi bed only came equipped with staples? I don't know, these are minor quibbles. And any questions about the mural or the reason why the xeno's are they way they are will be answered eventually.
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Hadley's Hope
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Altered state... the planet did have oxygen, about the same mixture as our own atmosphere 21% and most of the rest Nitrogen... I think it was Chance who mentions it, and then Forde says that the CO level is 3%... that's toxic for humans, but it's not a problem for combustion... you can have fire in less than 1% oxygen . There's no reason to assume that the Xeno mural is a plot hole. Some people are assuming that what we are witnessing in the final scene (the 'money shot' I call it) is the first Xenomorph. Why they assume this? Expectations. The Xenomorph is different from what we saw before because rather than come from the normal cycle we've seen, egg ---> facehugger on a human, laying egg inside that burst out... Here we have contaminated male, impregnates female, gestates the parasite in her womb, which then facehugs a Space Jockey... so there's plenty of variables there that might affect its development.
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alteredstate.
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[url=http://www.fastcocreate.com/1680882/how-prometheus-got-its-atmosphere]Your text to link here...[/url]http://www.fastcocreate.com/1680882/how-prometheus-got-its-atmosphere Long before Prometheus launched, director Ridley Scott stopped by NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, CA to talk a little exobiology. Opening June 8 in the U.S., the prequel to Scott’s 1979 Alien chronicles an ill-fated exploration team that travels to a distant planet in search of humankind’s origin. To ground the plot in scientific plausibility, Scott turned to Kevin Hand, JPL’s deputy chief scientist for solar system exploration, to explain the kind of terrain, atmosphere, or ecosystem astronauts might encounter on a planet outside of our solar system. “I met with Ridley and his creative team early in the process to see how science could be utilized in plotlines,” says Hand. “They had lots of questions about what it takes for humans to travel to distant worlds, how those worlds might be uninhabitable for humans, the constraints to consider when thinking about alien life, and how it might have adapted to that environment. It became a creative brainstorming session where we bounced ideas and questions off one another. My goal was to help them get the science right while maintaining a plot that tells a compelling story.” Among the issues discussed were ways in which a localized portion of a human-friendly atmosphere might suddenly turn toxic. Hand cited volcanic outpouring of toxic gases. Scott also asked him for scientifically justifiable reasons a building interior could contain enough oxygen for astronauts to remove their helmets when the exterior atmosphere did not. Yes its a minor issue but interesting non the less and your thread begs the question if you wanna know what the plot holes are theres plenty of sites pointing them out just google plot holes in prometheus . hey btw i liked the film but i felt some aspects were just a bit to vague . i'm not criticising just responding to your question in the thread and highlighting some concerns.
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hicksandhudson
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do we seriously have to justify what percentage of carbon dioxide and oxygen is necessary to create and maintain a fire in relation to a fiction movie? you guys are digging for stuff to complain about. its science fiction, meaning a fake world. i suppose its possible for organic material to support molecular acid as a blood form? its a fake world, meaning fire can exist in 3% carbon dioxide. there, problem solved!
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alteredstate.
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@ hadleys hope if indeed the planet was at the same oxygen level as our own then we have oxygen level detector technology already and have had for years the ship would of detected it and there wouldn't have been a need for helmets at all. Some how this doesn't ring true unless the helmets were just a precaution for contamination issues in which case breeding mice or some other living organism would have made even more sense.
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Drakeequation
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Plot hole: a serious inconsistency in the plot of a book or film or TV show, such as an impossible event happening, or an event that contradicts something else that has taken place. It is difficult to have a serious discussion about the film's plot holes because, in my opinion, it is not a complete story. The biology of the Engineers and their technology is never explained so you cannot say if the fact that it destroys an Engineer with DNA similar to a humans and makes Fifield a zombie is a plot hole. You do not get to spend enough time with any of the supporting characters to learn if their almost completely illogical behavior (taking off helmets in a potential hot zone, petting dangerous space creatures, getting lost after sending out mapping drones, freaking out at someone about lack of rocks when you are in a cave) is evidence of a plot hole or some aspect of their personality that we did not get to see. One thing is clear though, in rebuffing many of the plot hole arguments, users have used information that happens off camera or is promised in a sequel. And at the end of the day, isn't that the most damning evidence that a film is riddled with plot holes? For if there were no plot holes, you would not have to use speculation to carry the story from start to finish. Speculation is to plot holes what cement is to pot holes.
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alteredstate.
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yeah your right hicks and hudson its nitpicking i know but its debate and no harm intended that's what forums are for Its just a bit of fun not intended for argument. agree D.. I need to see the film again we had a couple chatting all the way through it which bugged me no end. some of the dialogue it appears didn't sink in first time .
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Maiafay
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@Drakeequation Bughunter answered some of your plot holes in his review - particularly the goo and how it affects people differently. Fifield is human. He makes mistakes. He's also in a cave where at least one of his puppies had issues with mapping (kept trying to go through the closed door and is why David offered to repair it). Fifield is also stressed; he wasn't expecting to actually FIND anything. People under duress behave oddly. As for taking off helmets...they had scanners. The scanners said the air was great (not in those exact words, of course). So they took off their helmets? And? From what I can recall, no one died from being without their helmet. Both Milburn and Fifield kept theirs on when the worms attacked. Milburn is reacting to a creature he's trying desperately not to be afraid of. It's almost hysteria. And he treating it as he would an earth animal - and while that's not the brightest (I sure the hell wouldn't touch it), any expert in the field will rely on their past experiences with similar creatures or situations. He made a stupid mistake. People aren't perfect.
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alteredstate.
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Sounds like a fair assessment maiafay thanks for thread.
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JP
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Try this one for size....you're being attacked in your temple, all your mates are getting massacred, you had a mission to destroy earth, your the last engineer....what more of an excuse do you have to get the hell out of there? actually no...I'll just stay here and have a kip for 2000 years!! Also...any reason at all for hunting down Shaw at the end? He's a bit of an idiot this one....get in another ship lad and do your bloody job! Someone needs to give Lindelof a serious slap...he's a fraud
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JP
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Maiafay
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@JP Please stop hating on Lindelof. I'm frankly tired of it. The Engineer's ship just got rammed by the Prometheus. He's pissed off. I would be pissed too if some little snot decided to ruin my mission. He went after Shaw to insure she couldn't interfere - and again, he was pissed. Anger makes anyone behave irrationally. It's universal. And in an interview with Fassbender, he said the Engineer sees us as flies, annoying pests. He wanted the last fly swatted. No explanation needed. We have no idea how their society works. YOU would leave because that's how YOU would react. You are human. The Engineer is close, but obviously more advanced and from an entirely different culture. These Engineers seemed like a warrior caste. What warrior would abandon his post? What honor is in that? We have no idea how their society is, what they place value on, or what deity they serve. It could have been worse for him to abandon his duty than to continue forward.
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Shaw's_sweet_baby
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In the old days we used to kill desserters if they left their post... Perhaps this is what the Engineer would be facing if he returned to his home planet without results.
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loseyourname
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The ship's medic states when they first arrive that the atmosphere is roughly identical to Earth's aside from having more carbon dioxide, to the point that it would kill you in about two minutes. Every seen someone breathe into a paper bag to calm themselves? Doing so increases the carbon dioxide mix in the air, which has a sedative effect and would eventually kill you if the mix got high enough. It would have no effect whatsoever on the ability of fire to burn, however.
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astromax
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You were not paying attention. The medi bed's decontamination system was activated by Shaw and its pod closed before the thing could escape. It, limp lifeless, DIED ! What’s exciting about the end of Prometheus is we will finally deal with the Engineers, not just their various xeno creations. We now know what they look like, that they have no exoskeleton. It's a suit with a helmet. The SJ is awoken to find what? Unknown Trespassers in his military weapons facility. Shoot first ask questions later. The question is asked by Shaw, "Why do they hate us?" But, think about it. This SJ doesn’t know where we came from or who we are. He has been slumbering. We just showed up. The SJs are understaffed due to some event so we enter the facility unopposed. That's where the sequel comes in. Sure we crashed the Military base and hijacked a ship but by the time we arrive at their home planet, or a planet a little further up the chain of command, they may be expecting us.
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Symmetricon
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1. We do not know if the SJ who rips Davids head off was in hibernation before or after the incident that led to the death of the others. To presume to know would be an error. 2. We do not know that the baby was dead, there was no scan done on it to make sure it had no life signs, nor do we know what kind of life signs it would have. Again people presume to know that which they do not. Before seeing the movie, and after reading negative reviews, I was expecting to see some major logical fallacies, but I did not. First of all, we a freaking talking about aliens that created us..... its a fantasy sci-fi movie, it requires a certain suspension of disbelief......

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