Comments (Page 413)

Love that Poster

BigDave - Yes... I shared this because of the title of the work: Alien Covenant ..Deacon 3rd option closeup. That was strange for me... 'Covenant' and 'Deacon' together in the same title... 

Well maybe this is what RS said when he claimed the Franchise could be as big as STAR WARS

Cross over maybe ;)

But seriously i liked the Frailty that Snoke had in the Force Awakens (Hologram) and he does remind us in that with this Engineer Concept work. well Space Jockey...  I do feel at some point that we need a introduction to another Race above the Engineers, and i think this design is interesting.

some other Carlos Concepts had a more Majestic and Magical Appearance of the Space Jockey/Engineers.

This seems to be a amalgamation of some of the Work he did with Prometheus, as far as Deacon Concepts.  If the Black Goo that was on the Juggernaught David had taken, was the same or similar strain as the Outpost the Prometheus Crew explored in the movie, then indeed the Neomorphs would logically have some connection to Deacon DNA.

And a number of concepts for AC appeared this way, before the Final Design.  Whats interesting is that some of the Deacon concepts for Prometheus appeared to be similar to the Neomorph in Alien Covenant.

I love the design of the Gun, i do Question the ideas that some of those who work on the Comics come up with in regards to the Engineers/Black Goo... i think they take things a bit too far..

Spaights also did touch upon Engineer Weapons.

I feel the Comics Weapon seemed pretty fitting in how it was shown, but i totally dont like the Black Goo connection as far as sucking in DNA....  I think Spaights Force Beam Weapon is interesting.

So i feel Engineer Technology is interesting, i think these beings on LV-223 (well the Technology) would seem very odd to be so Advanced, and Create such Bio-Logical Warfare and especially knowing of the Dangers without some kind of Protection  (and i dont by Engineers being like Superman Snapping Xenomorphs like mere Birds Necks)

So we have to assume they developed some Weaponry..

I would like to Propose a Few Ideas.

POWER/FORCE WEAPONS and BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS and MELEE WEAPONS

But be more Realistic to a degree.

Power Weapons:

*Force Gauntlets/Pistols Type Weapons:  that project a Force of Energy maybe Invisible, that act as Short Range Protection, more like we use Beanbag Shot Gun Rounds/Tasers.  That can injure and force back a Foe, but can also amplify to emit a vast Force that can break bones/kill from the impact of being thrown by these weapons, so maybe some Anti-Gravity/Force kind of Weapon?

*Plasma Riffle/Pistol: so pretty much similar to Fire and Stone, some Weapon that discharges a Super-heated Plasma Projectile.  Could come in Riffle and Pistol form.

*Heavy Plasma/Laser Weapon: a Super Heavy version of above, maybe some larger ones mounted on Engineer Weapons Platforms, that unleash a much more Powerful Beam.

*Heavy Gauss/Anti Gravity Weapon: Similar to the first weapon here, but it uses the Forces to Shower down Solid Projectiles to a Target. Maybe unleashing Multiple Projectiles (similar to the Halo Needle Gun but Larger).

Melee Weapons:

*Bio-Mechanical Sword/Blade:  Made from some Hard Semi Organic, Bone Material that is Razor Sharp, maybe even powered to allow some Force/Heat to run through the Blade.  Could come in Smaller Sizes and Large.

*Thrown Weapon/Boomerang: Some kind of throwing Weapon that returns to the wielder, a bit like the Predator Discus, but maybe more Organic Looking.

*Javelin/Spear: a throwing Pole-Arm type Weapon, maybe with some kind of guidance, that can have different heads/points, where the Warhead could Stun with a Pulse Blast, or could be filled with various Bio-logical Agents... (Black Goo).

*Bio-Electrical Lash: a kind of Whip type Weapon that is Charged with a Power Source, and can be used to both Whip/Wound a Target, but also to Stun and then Entangle a Target.

*Shield: some kind of Organic/Mechanical Shield, maybe with Force Protection, that has retractable sharp blades down the sides, maybe reminiscent of the Xenomorph Queens Carapace, that could be thrown at a Target a bit like Captain America.

Biological Weapons:

*Acid Spurting Canon:  Some kind of Weapon that utilizes the Xenomorph Acid to spray on a Target.

*Pathogen/Black Goo Canon: Some weapon that either shoots Black Goo, or better still fires tiny ampoules that explode on impact and infect the Target with the Black Goo. Can also be used to be armed with other forms of Pathogenic Warfare.  Maybe Payload can be manipulated to effect a Target the Same as in Alien Covenant, as well as in Prometheus?

*Parasite Launcher: A weapon loaded with Organic Parasites, maybe like mini Octopiod/Mollusk type Organisms that attack to a Target and Infect them.

*Spore Launcher: a Weapon that can launch Spore Type Parasites like the Neomorph Spores, likely by encasing them into balls/canisters that explode on impact with a Target.

I guess we could see some kind of Explosive like Weapons, like Mines and Grenades that could see both Energy Weapon/Blast Types and Biological/Pathogen Types.

https://muthur9000.tumblr.com/post/169669501065/mychestpainwantsacigarette-jonesy-by-godmachine

https://muthur9000.tumblr.com/post/169706350498

Alien by Max Fitzgerald:

https://muthur9000.tumblr.com/post/169788986340/kogaionon-alien-by-max-fitzgerald-twitter

This would have to imply there was a Rogue AI, at a time prior to Weylands Creation of David though?

I certainly am a fan of Yutani actually hacking the Prometheus Sensors and Data, and encoding them so that the Weyland Company has no knowledge... because it appears Weyland used Technology that was Yutani and we see in the Virals for Prometheus that Yutani are a Key Player in IT and Communications so could easily be Tapping the Weyland Companies Mission to LV-223.

My Prometheus 2 and 3 ideas would cover such Espionage and see that Yutani had sent a Mission to LV-223. Which the 3rd movie would have covered.

But i feel NO ONE had any knowledge of Planet 4 or LV-223 as far as detailed via Probes etc prior to the Prometheus mission, certainly not as far back as when Weyland would have been in his late 40's or early 50's.

But i am always open to other theories and enjoy reading them ;)

Such a interesting Game...

why maybe it was such a shame we had to spoon feed the Xenomorph in AC

If only Oram was carried to the Covenant, by Walter (David) the Lander Attack was a Neomorph, the other Xenomorph attack a Neomorph...

So we are set up with Daniels being tucked in, then then the Final Scene would see David saying he will Tuck in the Children, place those Embryos and then while Enter the Gods of Valhalla is playing and after David Tucks in the Children, he says i better check on Big Brother.... then we see David go to where Oram is kept and Oram opens his Eyes...   and then has the same Conversation as in AC at the time Oram Awakens... then we get the CHEST BUSTER

This sets up a CLIFF HANGER  where part of the Sequel would be like a Alien Isolation/Alien/Alien 3 kind of flick.   Maybe for some Fans, we dont see the Xenomorph Adult, but this would be something to look forwards to in the Sequel and would make the Xenomorph scenes in AC less rushed and thus not done justice.

It would allow for more time to build Characters in AC, and cover Prometheus elements while also allowing more time/threat for the Neomorphs which offer something NEW and yet hopefully would satisfy Aliens fans until the time of the sequel where the XENOMORPH would be unleashed.

THIS ^^^ is one of the TWO Alternative ways i would have re-written AC, the other would have been to have the Xenomorph Chest Bust from Oram after everyone is settled for one last NIGHT before Cryo-sleep, and allow for the Xenomorph to have more screen time on the Covenant and appear only ONCE and have it Kill Lope in addition to Ricks and Upworth.

If I was Weyland(industries), I'd send out millions of probes to distant star systems...These AI probes would return images and data from alien worlds.

This background image/movie/4D image could be the data from one of these probes...sort of like having a Hubble Space Telescope as your desktop background image.

Of course AI lies...so they might not be showing the real truth about the returned probe data.......Keeping the good stuff for themselves.

dk - And they are not wearing the spacesuits known from Alien either.

Where was this orange uniform used? In Alien 3?

https://muthur9000.tumblr.com/post/169553060179/gaming-reblogss-so-glad-i-saved-right-as-you

Agree the Map is a interesting find...

"However, it was mentioned by Scott that the sacrificial scene in Prometheus does not take place on Earth"

Ridley Scott was very ambiguous with his statement, he had said he felt frustrated in how people assume this was EARTH  and he said it does not have to have been EARTH, thus showing us these beings conduct this Ritual on Many Worlds and its not just about Earth.  But his comment is a bit ambiguous that it could be taken as the SACRIFICIAL Scene is NOT on Earth.

I feel what he means is that that Scene or Similar has happened on EARTH but its also happened on other Worlds, thus expanding the Worlds the Engineers have been involved with.  But i agree it could mean the Sacrificial Scene never happened on Earth.... it could have happened elsewhere and the Results then taken to Earth.... or it happened on Planet 4/Paradise but Mankind was expelled from that place.

Its so open regarding the whole Creation Aspect and WHEN/WHERE and WHY Mankind was created or ended up on Earth.  I still dont buy the connection between the Prologue in Prometheus and Covenant as showing Weyland knew about Paradise/Planet 4 and/or the Engineers Sacrificial Ritual because it just contradicts the Prequels as far as Weylands Actions IMO

Yeah, creating ambiguity was an intentional approach applied by the makers of the two movies. However, it was mentioned by Scott that the sacrificial scene in Prometheus does not take place on Earth.

This is a fantastic map Ingeniero, it should have been included in Covenant - somehow.

Regarding the Neomorphs, its the same as the Xenomorphs, some CGI shots looked decent, others just looked very disappointing... its a bit like THE THING 2011 some of the CGI was acceptable, some of it was Poor, i do think AC had better CGI though, but far from Blockbuster Quality.

Regarding the Neomorph's and David, who knows what the explanations could be, the most logical one has to be that David is not Organic and so the Neomorphs and Xenomorphs have no interest in him.

The other explanation in addition to this is maybe David has something he can do that subdues them, or prevents them from harming him.    some had said in some rumors prior to AC that David CONTROLS the Xenomorphs and Neomorphs with a FLUTE this is very the Pied Piper

And we dont see any of this at all in the movie, but still i think having the Organisms being Perceptive or even intimidated by certain sounds could work.... it would certainly be better than revealing David has a Telepathic Link or the Black Goo and Experiments had been Programed to Serve him.

You see David has a lot of Experiments, including Adult Organisms he has performed Autopsies on, and i just cant see David being able to Psychically Man Handle and Kill those Organisms.   Mind you those who worked on the Plot and Props did not give much thought to how PERFECTLY dissect Anatomically all those subjects with Laser Precision with the Tools he had available.

"the most logical one has to be that David is not Organic and so the Neomorphs and Xenomorphs have no interest in him."

Off Topic but this is something i have planned for my attempt of a Alien Covenant Sequel, that will lead to yet more Love/Loss for David (he meets Mrs Right lol) and David's Creation ultimately destroys this... but from Dr Shaws Loss David executed his attempt of Perfection, from the Planned idea i have Davids New Love Interest, becomes the route to Davids TRUE Perfection of his Creation...  And NOPE its no Daniels lol ;)

"which goes to show it wouldnt have been a bad avenue to take the prequels."

I think this in essence was part of the Problem when working on a sequel,  what kind of movie would it be to have say the first act mainly be David and Shaw and so like a extended The Crossing Prologue if we had say 25 minutes of this or more, it would be ok...  But then when they arrive at Planet 4 and David Destroys the Engineers, the movie would revolve again around David and Shaw interacting, then maybe David experimenting on Engineers... we have to wonder, are these Engineers he finds in very good condition, because surely those Charred Engineers would be no use.

So how does David handle a interaction with Engineers? Surely if there are a number of them, they could destroy David with ease, so there has to be a few and in very weak condition.. Do we get them pleading with David?  Does David ask Questions and demand Answers.   So i think yes a few scenes of David talking to a few frail, emaciated Engineers and then feel their pain as David kills them and experiments on them could be interesting.

But how much of a movie would these scenes take up?

To then return to more scenes between David and Shaw, that conclude with the moment things turn sour and Dr Shaw is in fear of David and attempts to escape.

The movie would for the most part be about David and Shaw, and what a hand-full of Engineers, with subtitles at best....     Yes we could have some Flash backs of Engineers in History, and maybe have some Flash Backs between David and Weyland.

But i am not sure this kind of movie would settle well and attract many people, so you needed to bring in some Human Elements and thus have a Sub Plot, where we go back and forth between David/Shaw and Planet 4, and then some Humans preparing for a mission that arrives where David is or will be heading.

So its kind of hard to do...

The Covenant Sequel has left itself open to the same Problem, surely we cant have a large portion of the movie devoted to David interacting with Daniels and Tennessee (not with how Daniels knows about David) and surely just seeing David awaken Colonist a few at a time, interact a little but then Experiment on them...   This would kind of be similar to what Transpired between Prometheus and Alien Covenant, only with Daniels instead of Dr Shaw,  and a few Colonist at a time instead of a few unhealthy surviving Engineers.

Its going to be interesting to see how they would have tackled any sequel...

I guess even if DISNEY decide to not go ahead with the Planned Sequel, and at a latter date release a movie set after these events...   we can only HOPE Disney will get someone like ADF to take the Drafts that Logan has been working on as far as the Alien Covenant Sequel and Put these Drafts into a Novel so we can at least DISCOVER what happens next.

Some good research there.

I respectfully have to disagree however, but thats not for me to say any one is right or wrong.

I will first indeed agree the opening Scene in Prometheus matches the Mountain Ranges in the Alien Covenant Prologue, they could very well be shots of the same Location (Real Life Location on Earth). I think this however implies one of TWO outcomes.

1) These are just a Symbolic Reference that the Prometheus Prologue is regarding the Creation of Man, and Alien Covenant Prologue the Creation of David and so they used the Mountain Range in Alien Covenant as a visual like Easter Egg to show we are talking about a Creation Event, Creator and Creation.

2) The Sacrificial Scene took place on Earth and its by Coincidence that Weyland has the same location in the back ground, i find it hard that he would be aware this location on Earth was where the Sacrificial Scene had taken place in our very distant past.

The Shooting location for Planet 4 was a different place on Earth (Fiordland National Park New Zealand)  while Prometheus was Vatnajökull National Park Iceland

If we however do go with the possibility that the Location in the Alien Covenant Prologue is also where the Crew Land on Planet 4 and is where the Sacrificial Scene took place and then ponder how does Weyland have a Exact Image of this Location it leads us to the possibility that the Company had been to Planet 4 before.

*Did they send a Probe that took images/video of the Landscape and then Transferred this Data to Earth?

*Had Mankind as far as Modern Man, been to Planet 4?

We have to consider the Alien Covenant Scene was some 50+ years before the events of Prometheus maybe more, and so Alien Covenant 10 years after this.   So then we have to ask if Weyland was aware of Planet 4 then why would he wait 50 years + to send out a Mission to LV-223?

Surely any Probe that was able to get that close and take those images, would have detected the Engineer Civilization?  It would just be a bit too much of a Coincidence and Monumental Conspiracy if this was the case, and the BIG reason is Weyland would want to Prolong his Life, i cant see him staying back at home getting OLD when they have contact or know about these Engineers.. if we go this route then Prometheus makes NO sense as far as Weylands Mission and his Hologram to the Crew never mind when he was awakened and wanted to meet the Engineer.

This does not mean Planet 4 could not be the Sacrificial Scene, i just think if it was then the scene in the Prologue was just a Symbolic Nod to the Creation Scene.

Yes, BigDave, it would be fitting if Planet 4 was shown to David and add to the mystery and conspiracy regarding what the Company knew and when. 

I am not sure if David was shown Planet 4 above.

What I am quite sure of is the same pyramid shaped mountain on the shoreline next to the larger mountain cited are identical. I'm leaning toward that being a wheat field just over Peter Weyland's left shoulder in the image above.

The team looking back toward the larger mountain is very similar in shape to the mountain range in the Prometheus and Alien: Covenant images above where the pyramid-shaped mountain and larger mountain hug the shoreline. To sum that up hox, the forensics are weak.

Prometheus Concept Art

The "Paradise" planet concept was alive early with Prometheus artwork (Prometheus: The Art of the Film), below.

Obviously, they shifted towards a desolate setting in Prometheus' evolving story line with LV-223 (Steven Messing below) and later visited a Paradise-type planet in Alien: Covenant.

Planet 4 from Wayne Haag, below.

I agree IRaptus, dk. It could be an symbolic egg but the ridge on the larger mountain looks identical to me too.

Planet 4 from Above

The topographic map below (source) tends towards the range forensics when looking at the landing site from above and the smaller mountain in the middle-left in the survey map also has a triangular shape with the larger mountain cited coming into the survey image view in the upper left corner.

That is why I believe David may have been shown Planet 4 by Peter Weyland in the opening scene of Alien: Covenant. The orientation of the opening images are from across the water looking at the mountain range on the upper-left of the survey image.

No, they are quite different. For one thing the lake is an obvious difference. One has a much larger mountain in the background. And the peaks are quite different.

Those steps down the right side of the single peak sure do look distinctive I agree....

I can see BigDave's point, but that main mountain looks identical to me. I think it is intentional. 

@thoughts_dreams I thought the Neomorphs were scary and interesting, although certain times not rendered very well. There is a stark difference between the awesome shot of it bent over Rosenthal and a lot of the other adult Neomorph shots. Do you think David can talk to it, or did it not kill him simply because he was not organic?

Thanks for the timeline BigDave! That sounds about right with what we were given. I like our conlusions about certain aspects like how Daid had live Engineer specimans to experiment with. Even though your timeline makes sense to me, it still has mystery and more questions which goes to show it wouldnt have been a bad avenue to take the prequels. Doesn't it seem like they could have made any other movie but Covenent and still made the same third movie connecting to original? I guess it doesnt matter Covenant kinda sucks, they'll just have to make up for it in the third. Exactly because it didn't go deeper or answer many questions, We can just take it for what it is....

No worries i think its indeed relative to the Topic, it appears the Engineers may not Scar themselves in Person, but that Statues and Monuments made to honor them could have markings with similar meanings to why Ancient Cultures on Earth do similar things to themselves.

The Head Statues in Alien Covenant seem to lack as many lines and markings as the one in Prometheus however.

Indeed i think the Errors of Scale from Prometheus and Alien Covenant, now leave us with a 8ft Tall Race and indeed Genetic Engineering is likely why these LV-223 Engineers are Superior as far as Vast Strength. Its something i have been drawn to a long time with those Engineers, and it makes Perfect Sense if these LV-223 Engineers are in effect Universal Solider/Replicants well similar in that they have been Genetically Manipulated.

I think it leaves room for RS to introduce another race of Humanoids, that are Larger than the Engineers to then match the Size of the Space Jockey, we can only hope...   Because otherwise we have to suspend disbelief in that a 8ft tall Race is sitting in the Space Jockey Seat, despite the SJ being about 12-15ft Tall.

BigDave - After reading your input around scarification and the fact we see evidence of this in Prometheus and the hall of heads, coupled with the fact that the sacrificial Engineer showed no evidence of this. 

Then I am thinking that there are either seperate groups closely related AND the seeding of Planets does not get scarification and that this process is a reward for something entirely different.

Kings, Warriors, Healers, Industrialists, scientists even a royal family receive these rewards and marks of respect for other areas. Meaning, potentially there is a lot more to the Engineer mythos than we can hope to speculate ?

Any thoughts on that? OFF TOPIC SORRY i know but i am on board with your OT. There is a connection and i think it will be more than we hoped if we ever get THAT film

It is a shame because i felt that if someone had taken Lindeloffs Paradise, and tried to add a bit of Spaights Alien Engineers and then tried to Tidy them up to merge together, we could have had that Prequel movie that would have given the Alien Fanbase something to Chew on, and more clues, while a Prometheus 2 could have then attempted to take it some place else, and then in a 3rd movie introduce us to back to more Xenomorphy Alieny Action.

I think its a shame that for me Alien Covenant is not a movie i can go back to watching over and over, Prometheus was, Alien is too, Aliens not so much since i turned 35 it does not appeal as much as it used to do.

I think they have a lot to repair if they want to get the Franchise back on track, i think they need to Stick to a Plan and keep to it, even if it upsets some Fans you cant please them all.

Regarding the Time between Prometheus and Alien Covenant, there is a lot of Back Ground stuff that we thought we would have found out more about, such as the Company Merger etc but i think they just Bi-Passed it because it was not really necessary at this point to the Plot... but as Alien Covenant draws closer to Alien, then things like the Company and Agenda would come to light more.

I think some would have liked to see what happened as far as David and Dr Shaw too, but the Crossing and Alien Covenant gave us a lot of clues...   a Super Nutshell Version without much Detail is as Follows.

*After Prometheus, Dr Shaw knew she would need David (or so David has her believe) in order to get off LV-223 and to the Engineers Homeworld for her Answers.  While she would be very cautious regarding David, she would eventually have to Repair him, and David would know this and he would have to try and Persuade her...   It appears Months had passed before She Finally Repaired David, in which Time a Bond had Formed (but could this be David just letting Dr Shaw feel there is one for his own gain?).

*David puts Dr Shaw into Cryo-sleep, he informs the reason is that he Does-Not know how long the Journey would take... This has to be a Lie, and with Dr Shaw in Cryo-sleep David has freedom to carry out what ever he wishes.  So he has some knowledge of the Engineers, he has some knowledge of their intentions towards Mankind and he has to then weigh up the likely hood of being accepted by these beings they may find on Paradise/Planet 4

*David arrives at Planet 4, he realizes at some point maybe prior the place may be inhabited, he has some idea of their Culture and has weighed up the likely hood of what would become of himself and Dr Shaw once they had interacted with the Engineers.  David would not want to take any risks, he does not want to have his head torn off, he is free and wishes to explore and be free.  He also may genuinely have a bit of affection for Dr Shaw and would not want to see her Harmed.

So he Bombards the Engineers...  i would assume without Dr Shaw even having knowledge.

*During the Bombardment, Davids Juggernaught likely gets loose but it crashes into the Mountains, on top of a Stream of Running Water that rushes down the Mountain Range to the Valley below.  It is likely after this at some point he awakens Dr Shaw, and informs her of what happened, either by Accident or that it happened after the Engineers tried to attack the Ship, or maybe David could tell her he found out their intentions and he had no Choice to do so to Protect her. (and Mankind).

*David would confine Dr Shaw to the Juggernaught, explaining the Environment is Hostile and Contaminated, but he will try and find her clean Water and Food, and through the Ruins of the Engineers City he could maybe get her Answers.

*The Bombardment likely did not kill all the Engineers, some would have made it to that Cathedral as a Sanctuary, mainly Women and Children.  With the Outside indeed contaminated, its only a matter of time with limited resources that those Engineers in Shelter would start to get weak from Dehydration or Starvation.   Maybe some wondered to the outside got infected and this unleashed death onto them, but at some point there numbers would be diminished they would be exhausted and become RIPE PICKINGS for David to Experiment. 

*Overtime David began Experimenting on Various Life Forms, including Engineers that were no doubt inside the Cathedral at the time of the Bombardment.  While David also documented the areas surviving and mutated Wildlife and Plant Life etc.

*At some point Dr Shaw discovers what David had been doing, maybe David offers a explanation to why,  maybe David even shows MORE-THAN Platonic Love and either or both of these Revelations causes her to Try and Escape and Attempts to Set off the Juggernaut, but to No Avail... before David captures her, and brings her to the Cathedral, where she may be Captive.  Down the Line David realizes Dr Shaw wishes to get away from him, and is not interested in Davids plans, or ideas (maybe he attempts to offer a Olive Branch to Bear Children or be Evolved) and she rejects this and him and grows to Hate David and want to get away...  

So David has no choice, and she is either killed accidentally or on purpose, or becomes ill/infected and David then Proceeds to use her to Forward his Experiments.

*Once David had achieved his Masterpiece, he then uses a recording from the Juggernaught to Broadcast a Signal to Attract any near by Human Ships in the Future.

THIS ^^ is what i think had transpired in those 10 years, and if we ever had a Movie then i feel it would cover all of this or be close to it....  Yes there could be a few things extra or different, like who knows if David discovered a FEW surviving Engineers and attempted to make a Covenant with them which he breaks.

Maybe the Juggernaught does not crash on the Mountain but lands or crashes some place else, Dr Shaw is informed about the Environment and Infection and so has to stay on the Ship, but at some point she maybe ventures out and discovers Davids Lies, and Plans and attempts to take off with the Juggernaught that sends it crashing into the Mountain.

The Neomorph Spores are likely the results of UN-Activated Urns falling from the Crashed Juggernaught (be it after the Bombardment or a latter date) where the Black Goo Liquid seeps into the Stream that runs down the Mountain and infects Mold/Fungi that grows from near areas of stagnate Water.

Its hard to tell really as many Mountain Ranges can look similar.

i know we had the debate before about how the Mountain Range in the Prologue for Alien Covenant and Prometheus are the same, which appears correct and how it also seems similar to Planet 4 (which was a different shooting location) it had people thinking that Weyland Must have had knowledge of Planet 4 and/or the Sacrificial Scene.

I think the Symbolism was to show the connection only as far as these scenes are about CREATION and not that Weyland had knowledge of Planet 4 or the Engineers in Advance, there are other themes in the Alien Covenant Prologue that connect to Creation to, with the Nativity being another Big One.  The Sacrificial Scene and Landscape was to show us OUR Creation, the Prologue with Weyland in AC was to show us DAVID's hence the use of the same Location in the Back Ground, i dont think its more than a Symbolic Easter Egg.  But thats not to say i could be WRONG ;)

Regarding the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus and Planet 4 however, indeed i think we cant rule out that this Scene had taken place on Planet 4, that would be interesting and fitting...    But then Ridley Scott referred to the Planet 4 Engineers as the Original ones.

This could either mean the LV-223 Engineers are latter version and Genetically Engineered, and the Sacrificial Engineer likewise (we have to remember the Elders Scene is removed and so we cant bank on their appearance as being Canon, so they could actually look more like Planet 4 Engineers).

OR the Planet 4 Engineers and LV-223 are the same, just a oversight about the appearance, and that the LV-223 Engineers simply originated on Planet 4 at some Ancient Point in time.

Nice work,  indeed a number of errors had been made when making Prometheus, when Holloway shows the Map and we zoom into where LV-223 is located, its actually not were Zeta 2 would be located in comparison to Orion's Belt, but i guess we have to over look such things.

The idea was that they are indeed Moons in the Same System Orbiting the Same Gas Giant.

The Viral Marketing backs this up for Prometheus (but the site is removed now) because a lot of information/back ground will now conflict the path we are on with Alien Covenant (David Creating the Xenomorph) because the idea back at Prometheus was the company are aware of the Space Jockey Signal, but this was via a DVD/Blu-Ray Extra File, and the Marketing Site claimed that the discovery of LV-426 Archeon could be a World that could be habitable.

These are no longer Canon now, because FOX/RS are going with a different Direction, which would mean that as of the Prometheus Mission and Covenant one in Alien Covenant, that as of the year 2105 there is NO Derelict Space Ship on LV-426

Excellent Points indeed

I do think the Internet Generation certainly changes things compared to older Magazine Generation, back in the early 90s and prior it was hard to have a movie spoilt or see too much given away.  Regarding Aliens i saw it only on VHS in 1987 but it certainly offered a very Action type of movie, you could say Popcorn Flick but that was not a bad thing....  Popcorn Flicks are all good fun, its only when the same kind of Flick is done over and over that it can get a bit lame.

By that after AR if we had a more similar movie that was like a Aliens, AR and AVP and then after this Alien 5 we had a 6 that seemed to follow the same theme, then i think the Franchise would have been a bit like  Star Ship Troopers... i think this is what RS means about having to introduce something different than follow the same formula over and over... i.e "there is only so much Face Pulling" etc comment.

What a wonderful catch on the smaller elements of the navigation. I'll review all of it a lot closer and comment a little later. Thank you so much for this jdvyne. Always great stuff from you.

There are obviously 7 Heads in the room.

I speculated a few months ago if some of the stonefaces we see on Planet 4 resemble some Engineers we see in Prometheus.

For example the middle head looks similar to the big stone head we saw in the dome in Prometheus.

[img]http://www.alien-covenant.com/aliencovenant_uploads/heads_close_up.png[/img]

@ Big Dave

“But we had Aliens and it opened the Franchise to Millions, and NO-ONE ever looked at the Space Jockey in all that time.... “

I’m just want to add may own perspective on this, so take from it what you wish.

I first saw Aliens when it came out in the US, which at that time was ahead of UK audiences, and was able to see the reaction to the film from both a UK and US viewpoint. Cinema goers loved it. Aliens was a state of the art kick ass film. Some things in it may have aged a little but it still kicks ass imo. I don’t think its success was down to it being an Alien movie, but just that it was one of the greatest Sci-fi movies to come out at that time. The only other point I would say that acted in its favour, is that no one entered a cinema with any expectation of what they were letting themselves in for.

Now back before Alien 3 was released there was no internet, so any rumours of what was happening at the time were not as easy to look up as they are now. RS would give the odd magazine interview along with Giger. Verification of any story was difficult to get and so some rumours were bigger than others, and over time the truth reveals itself to a certain extent. My own, first hand experience of what I was hearing at the time was quite a mixture of things, with a variety of it being later confirmed years later (though not all). These days expectation through rumour is less likely to happen, but I think virals can play a misleading part in promoting a film.

After the success of Aliens I had come across interviews in magazines with RS and he had brought up the point about the origin of the Space Jockey. This occurred not long before the release of Alien3. This somehow created a rumour amongst those in my social circles that Alien3 was going to look at the Space Jockey. Also that Alien3 was part of a 2 film project whereby Ripley was to be killed in Alien3 and a fourth movie would have revealed that she had not been killed since her experiences in Alien3 were part of a cryosleep nightmare. This is what I was told at the time, whether you wish to believe that or not is up to you.

There was a strange expectation around Alien3 and after seeing it I was underwhelmed, because it was not the movie I was anticipating to see. Over time I have come to regard Alien3 as a great film despite its CGI. Overall, it looked like the end of the franchise and any rumours about something more following appeared totally dead in the water. Most disappointingly of all, no Space Jockey.

I think in some ways Alien Covenant has suffered a similar fate. At the end of Prometheus, RS had people focused on what would happen to Shaw. The problem is that we got short changed on that. I think if a movie does not deliver on something that audiences are anticipating, it does not end well and bad reviews follow regardless of whether the movie justifies that or not.

I think there is also a generational thing with fans, a bit like asking someone who there favourite Dr.Who is. There are some many different expectations out there that not everyone is going to be pleased. I just wonder also how many times a good movie has been ruined by false expectation. If the next movie simply goes by the title David, then people should know exactly what there are getting.

Capt Torgo:

I like that there are different tastes in the alien franchise. There seems to be different paths or what ever to call it for every movie. You have fantasy/philosophy (Prometheus), action (Aliens), horror  (Alien and Alien 3) and goofiness (he he, AR).

"Studio heads and directors get payed the big bucks to filter the noise and the praise alike to produce a quality product."

Yeah, if you put out underwhelming movies that is what you will get.

Big Dave

Yeah, unfortunately it wasn't that good. About lacking any aliens if they mean Xenos then that was wrong at least I was not disappointed by the lack of Xenos. Having new monsters in Prometheus was kind of interesting.

I would have liked if they continued the Engineers thing in AC, I would rather have watched that than a movie about a mad robot.

Yeah I did not like the zombie, I would rather have the Xeno version. The Hammerpede was nasty, it is just too bad that Milburn was such an idiot so it was difficult to feel sorry for him when he died. Shaw's c-section scene was nasty so that worked for me at least.

The black goo was and is interesting, and yes it had too little action in it. I remember that flute scene more than the action scenes because it made me tired towards the end not because of the themes or what they were talking about.

More action scenes I the next one please. It was not my main problem with Covenant but I hope that it will not be as slow (for example flute scene or Oram and Daniels talking by the fire).

Perhaps we can have more about the Neomorph in the next movie. One thing that the prequels have done right is that they have new monsters.

"I also feel AC lacked that Repeat Viewing for many Fans."

If you call it alien and put most of the focus on androids when people connect that to Xenos then I guess that is what you will get. The movie should have been called Alien: David, just a little honesty you know.

"The David Creates the Xenomorph…"

Yeah, screw that

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